GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[Yashim]

Quite true. And they have yet to be caught. The stiffer sentence would still have my vote, though.

I personally would like to tie the perp from his feet to the bumper of my car and drag him on Kennedy Avenue back and forth until nothing remains of him.

But is he the real perp here?

Even if Ziya committed the crime, he is one mentally ill guy. He's also a victim in his own right.

He doesn't respond to stimuli like normal people do. His family told him that they had the means to support him even if he didn't work. He didn't want that. He doesn't care.

How can you deter someone who has nothing from committing a crime? Can you deter a suicide bomber by death penalty?

You have to give those people something to lose, something to make them value their life and their freedom.

Ziya doesn't have anything. His freedom means little to him. And he is ill. He might have still committed this crime even if he knew that he'd be caught. His running away is just instinctive. Like running away when a dog starts running at you.

It's his family's and the state's responsibility to get him treated.

It is the Ministry of Tourism and Istanbul Municipality's responsibility to ensure safety in areas where tourists may wander off to.

The authorities are responsible for this crime by not eliminating the conditions that allows these crimes to happen.

Two female tourists were raped, and cases went cold. Who was the prosecutor (district attorney)? Ziya?

I also hope the Ziya and others get the highest punishment. But if that won't prevent other crimes, the punishment will in principle be not any different than the crime itself: Ending a life for what? Nothing.

I know you still want the stiffer sentence. I do too.

 

[pbj]

Some of us suspected Taylan, initially. Now, it turns out, if only he had been able to meet SS, she probably would still be alive today. So tragic.

 

[Yashim]

Maybe I need to write some more to clarify that I totally understand what you mean, Yashim. I didn't mean to oversimplify -- to sound naive or bloodthirsty with my previous responses, although in part I may be both to some degree. Maybe I was mainly hasty (tired, way past bedtime). So before I catch some z's I'll add that even though a crime has been committed for which, like many others, there can hardly be a punishment to fit, one's human impulse is to hope that the criminal is put as far away from other potential victims as can be perceived. It gives us a sense of security, fairness and justice, however shortlived. Although I won't be one to say that I don't care if said criminal is given a slap on the wrist; I would understand if where he needs to be is in a mental health institution, always hoping he could be helped, rehabilitated. I have no high hopes for our justice systems to be any more than what they are, and as crimes become more and more heinous and humanity becomes increasingly jaded in response, who knows what will become of it? I can only hope that whatever is done as a resolution to this case can help Sarai's family, her children, make some sense of what transpired that fateful day, find some closure and keep their beautiful memories of her alive. And hopefully the Universe will take care of the rest.

Edited to add : Good night!

Had I seen your message, I wouldn't have written the longer reply.

But her family took this so nobly and maturely.

A police officer wrote me a ticket for parking on the sidewalk without first giving me a verbal warning. And I decided to hate all Turks despite I am one too. I am not that noble after all.

That place should have been safer. If I were the family I wouldn't let this go.

Maybe they are too grieved. They don't really care for anything else.

Good night

 

[Yashim]

I noticed the same thing in Spain. Only tourist women seemed to be alone. All Spanish women I saw were always in a group or pairs.

In some societies, individuals are defined with reference to other individuals. And in others, with reference to themselves.

That impacts everything: social codes, functionality of social activities, behavioral patterns, etc.

I don't know what I just said. Gotta go to bed.

 

[SANDOVAL]

In some societies, individuals are defined with reference to other individuals. And in others, with reference to themselves.

That impacts everything: social codes, functionality of social activities, behavioral patterns, etc.

I don't know what I just said. Gotta go to bed.

No, i know exactly what you mean....

 

[Yashim]

Were the two women also killed, or might they be able to identify him?

I don't think they were killed.

 

[Herat]

That place should have been safer. If I were the family I wouldn't let this go

Good night

She was not in a place that would ever be considered "safe". She was not attacked in a place where tourist normally go.

If you want, have the police put up signs in twenty languages on the top of the walls warning people that this is a dangerous area. There is no way to know if that would have deterred her from going there or not.

What she did was aberrant. She did not go with another person for safety, as she seems to have done in the US. She did an unsafe thing.

Good night Yashim and thanks.

 

[writer411]

"Another witness identified as Hasan B. said he saw Sierra taking photos of the city walls. Ten minutes after, he heard screaming."

So, basically, this person heard screaming and just ignored it until somebody asked? Either ignoring screaming is a cultural thing, or this person isnt telling the truth. smh

 

[SANDOVAL]

She was not in a place that would ever be considered "safe". She was not attacked in a place where tourist normally go.

If you want, have the police put up signs in twenty languages on the top of the walls warning people that this is a dangerous area. There is no way to know if that would have deterred her from going there or not.

What she did was aberrant. She did not go with another person for safety, as she seems to have done in the US. She did an unsafe thing.

Good night Yashim and thanks.

I've just been remembering something from the beginning of this, it was said that she 'loved meeting new people'', and working to help people who came to the church.....i can't find it now.
So rather than avoiding strange men or the homeless, she maybe was 'reaching out' and being friendly, very sad ending.
Where it says she was trying to talk to him using hand signals, one wonders what kind of hand signals, why, and how would they be interpreted?

 

[writer411]

It's a good thing "Z" only showed up at his family's home "every two or three years" or they might've found him attached to that hair! I guess he made more than just a quick stop at the house, as we were made to believe from sister and brother's testimony. He made sure to find a safe spot to watch the news and find out if the LE was on to him yet, take a nap, get the money and run. From the comments it didn't seem that the brother wanted to protect him (the sister perhaps), but I believe they both knew he did it. And still helped him run. If it was him. *insane smile*

this all seems a bit too convenient for me, like Hollywood convenient. The perp has to show up home at drop off some convenient DNA since we need to roll credits in 18 minutes. Interested to see how this all shakes out.

 

[writer411]

Okay, read the thread. The whole escape to Syria thing (the perp disappearing into a warzone) is even more Hollywood than the perp stopping off in the village to drop off some DNA. Lets hope LE doesnt shoot him three times in the back as he limps toward Syrias war ravaged border. If LE is leaking this stuff its a sad disservice to Sarai, her family, the numerous crime victims that seem to be popping up in this case from the Armenian women, to the body in the river and to the rape victims. Im sure there are others. Id rather local LE take the case seriously and admit they have nothing than stand behind this shameful display of theatrics because they know "the Americans are watching."

 

[CMac2]

When I first read about the match to the blood on the shirt, I still wasn't willing to concede Z did it. I figured maybe he moved her body, but wasn't responsible for her murder. Hearing that it is his DNA under her fingernails snapped me out of it. I am shocker this ended up being a random act, commtted by someone previously unknown to Sarai. I hope they catch him. Fast

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SANDOVAL]

Okay, read the thread. The whole escape to Syria thing (the perp disappearing into a warzone) is even more Hollywood than the perp stopping off in the village to drop off some DNA. Lets hope LE doesnt shoot him three times in the back as he limps toward Syrias war ravaged border. If LE is leaking this stuff its a sad disservice to Sarai, her family, the numerous crime victims that seem to be popping up in this case from the Armenian women, to the body in the river and to the rape victims. Im sure there are others. Id rather local LE take the case seriously and admit they have nothing than stand behind this shameful display of theatrics because they know "the Americans are watching."

OOH...bit cynical, but one never knows...hope it's not like that.

 

[Meri]

this all seems a bit too convenient for me, like Hollywood convenient. The perp has to show up home at drop off some convenient DNA since we need to roll credits in 18 minutes. Interested to see how this all shakes out.

Yes, and does anyone else think it is weird how they are announcing who the killer is, what DNA they have on him to prove it, before they even catch him? Is that standard procedure? I would think they would be a bit hush-hush about it, so the guy would NOT run.

ETA: I guess they may be doing this for the public's help in locating him, but don't they usually say someone is wanted in a case as a suspect but not full-out say he is the killer, with DNA results on top of that?

 

[NewYork625]

She was not in a place that would ever be considered "safe". She was not attacked in a place where tourist normally go.

If you want, have the police put up signs in twenty languages on the top of the walls warning people that this is a dangerous area. There is no way to know if that would have deterred her from going there or not.

What she did was aberrant. She did not go with another person for safety, as she seems to have done in the US. She did an unsafe thing.

Good night Yashim and thanks.

Last night I watched a video on youtube submitted by a family of what I'm assuming are American tourists who took a self-guided tour of the walls. At one point they entered a locked gate when a local opened it to let them in. The mother joked about whether or not it was wise for them to enter, but they did, and later on the video they commented that an adjacent neighborhood looked "seedy". Fortunately they survived their tour.

The video:

[video=youtube;N5GIR7VSLfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5GIR7VSLfQ[/video]

It was with similar naivete that SS approached the walls and Z.

In another video a British tourist complained on video about the state of disrepair of the walls, and the lack of historic markers telling the events that happened in certain areas.

Tourists should be made aware of dangerous areas, but historic landmarks such as the wall should also be repaired and maintained. They should go from being considered dirty and dangerous, to a source of national pride. It would benefit Turkey's tourism industry, and also benefit future generations.

I may be overly idealistic, but in a perfect world the government might train the homeless and jobless, and create jobs for them repairing and restoring the walls and other national treasures.

 

[SmilingSweetly]

When I first read about the match to the blood on the shirt, I still wasn't willing to concede Z did it. I figured maybe he moved her body, but wasn't responsible for her murder. Hearing that it is his DNA under her fingernails snapped me out of it. I am shocker this ended up being a random act, commtted by someone previously unknown to Sarai. I hope they catch him. Fast

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

Glad you are back! Been missing your sassy humor!

 

[NewYork625]

"Another witness identified as Hasan B. said he saw Sierra taking photos of the city walls. Ten minutes after, he heard screaming."

So, basically, this person heard screaming and just ignored it until somebody asked? Either ignoring screaming is a cultural thing, or this person isnt telling the truth. smh

It is not a cultural thing. In New York there are many crimes that were committed and made the news more for the fact that people heard/saw/witnessed something, and did nothing to help, than for the fact that the crime was committed.

Some people say they were too afraid to do anything. Perhaps there were some who just didn't care.

That is something I can't understand. So no, it's not a cultural thing, but some people, for reasons unknown to me, just react differently.

 

[voominvava]

Murders sometimes happen before a rape can take place. Sometimes the victim's fight results in death before the act of rape.

This is exactly what I think happened. He clumsily tried to rape her and she was very strongly fighting back .. he grabbed a rock and tried to subdue her or knock her out, and killed her.

ETA: I see this was just said a page or two ago .. whoops!~

 

[Darkman00]

I am not really folllowing this case .. No arrest yet, though?

 

[NewYork625]

I am not really folllowing this case .. No arrest yet, though?

No, not yet.