GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[StCirq]

Has this article been translated yet?

http://www.ensonhaber.com/dna-tuttu-laz-ziya-cemberde-2013-02-19.html

The google translation suggests she went to photograph graffiti at the walls, encountered Z, talked with him, took photos of hi, and he tried to rape her (but those google translations are about as murky as everything else about this case).

 

[Yashim]

Right, rape intent would be the logical conclusion for her pants being down. But how could a woman of Sarai's size foil a rape attempt? even by one attacker of Z's size, let alone more than one person? And it could even have been done after she was hurt or deceased, but it wasn't...

He attacks her. She screams (once). She puts up a fight, he manages to pull the pants down, she continues to struggle, he decides to silence her by hitting her face. She dies, he gives up the rape attempt.

 

[Rolandred]

He said there was a loud screaming and nobody ran to that place? Odd, odd, odd...

Another odd to add to the growing list of odds!

 

[Yashim]

Has this article been translated yet?

http://www.ensonhaber.com/dna-tuttu-laz-ziya-cemberde-2013-02-19.html

The google translation suggests she went to photograph graffiti at the walls, encountered Z, talked with him, took photos of hi, and he tried to rape her (but those google translations are about as murky as everything else about this case).

Only new info is Ziya asks to use the cell phone of a bus driver. LE tracks the call. They miss Ziya by only 10 minutes.

The rest is the timeline of the paper's version of what happened.

- She was supposed to meet with TK on 21st, but couldn't
- Went to Cankurtaran to take pictures of graffiti
- Started walking up the path towards the walls. Took photos of the ruined walls and caves
- Met Ziya. Tried to communicate with him using hand gestures
- Took Ziya's photo. Ziya attempted to rape her
- During the struggle, Ziya killed her by hitting her head with a stone
- Moved the body to another cave and ran away

 

[Lostinabook]

There were a lot of defensive wounds on her so she fought back.

Yes, I'm sure she would have fought back and there are the defensive wounds to prove it. Given the possiblity, all victims of rape fight back. Most, regrettably, aren't successful, and again, she was a small woman. Maybe strong, but still, I can't believe she would have the strength to make him/them change his/their mind. But the screams probably unnerved him/them. That was what foiled it.

 

[Lostinabook]

He attacks her. She screams (once). She puts up a fight, he manages to pull the pants down, she continues to struggle, he decides to silence her by hitting her face. She dies, he gives up the rape attempt.

Definitely possible. The screams more than the physical struggle, though, don't you think?

 

[Yashim]

Yes, I'm sure she would have fought back and there are the defensive wounds to prove it. Given the possiblity, all victims of rape fight back. Most, regrettably, aren't successful, and again, she was a small woman. Maybe strong, but still, I can't believe she would have the strength to make him/them change his/their mind. But the screams probably unnerved him/them. That was what foiled it.

Maybe when she scratched her face, he got mad and started hitting her with a stone. And the press quotes LE that there is at least 1 other perp.

 

[Rolandred]

Definitely some other people were involved in some stages of the crime.

Th skype call will remain as a mystery.

Why would a homeless guy leave the country? Why not hide in a cave some place else? And Syria?

And there's like 200+ people on this case and this homeless mentally disturbed guy is able to flee to Syria? Wow - do hope they find him.

 

[Lostinabook]

Maybe when she scratched her face, he got mad and started hitting her with a stone. And the press quotes LE that there is at least 1 other perp.

Agreed, the face-scratching would do it. Painful.

 

[Lostinabook]

There were a lot of defensive wounds on her so she fought back.

Yes, she did. And it gives me a great sense of satisfaction to know this. The screaming, the scratches on his face. She marked him and she'll do him in with that DNA. I hope they don't rest til they get him and anyone responsible for her death. Good girl, Sarai. :bigstick:

 

[Rolandred]

A case of mistaken identity

http://www.sondakika.com/haber/haber-goruntulerdeki-kisi-masum-cikti-4348491/

Interesting. Who posted the video and said it was Z? Another odd.

 

[StCirq]

Well, if he's in Syria now, it could prove difficult to locate him. A bit of turmoil there these days,

 

[Yashim]

Yes, she did. And it gives me a great sense of satisfaction to know this. The screaming, the scratches on his face. She marked him and she'll do him in with that DNA. I hope they don't rest til they get him and anyone responsible for her death. Good girl, Sarai. :bigstick:

He is a homeless, unstable guy. I doubt prison will be any punishment. Even though sex offenders don't usually have a nice time.

But if he gets aggravated life imprisonment, which is a "life sentence in solitary confinement", he may be safe then.

I believe he will get "life sentence in solitary confinement without parole" if he doesn't end up in a mental institution.

He may also get less. Legal sanctions don't always make sense because there is a limit to the punishment.

If you sentence a murderer to life imprisonment without parole, what sentence will you give to someone who murders two? The same punishment? Then he/she won't hesitate to commit murder two or more.

So while punishment is limited by criminal's life span, the number of lives the criminal can take is almost endless.

 

[SANDOVAL]

Only new info is Ziya asks to use the cell phone of a bus driver. LE tracks the call. They miss Ziya by only 10 minutes.

The rest is the timeline of the paper's version of what happened.

- She was supposed to meet with TK on 21st, but couldn't
- Went to Cankurtaran to take pictures of graffiti
- Started walking up the path towards the walls. Took photos of the ruined walls and caves
- Met Ziya. Tried to communicate with him using hand gestures
- Took Ziya's photo. Ziya attempted to rape her
- During the struggle, Ziya killed her by hitting her head with a stone
- Moved the body to another cave and ran away

"papers version of what happened''....so i wonder if it's just a guess, or a witness reported that.

 

[Lostinabook]

He is a homeless, unstable guy. I doubt prison will be any punishment. Even though sex offenders don't usually have a nice time.

But if he gets aggravated life imprisonment, which is a "life sentence in solitary confinement", he may be safe then.

I believe he will get "life sentence in solitary confinement without parole" if he doesn't end up in a mental institution.

He may also get less. Legal sanctions don't always make sense because there is a limit to the punishment.

If you sentence a murderer to life imprisonment without parole, what sentence will you give to someone who murders two? The same punishment? Then he/she won't hesitate to commit murder two or more.

So while punishment is limited by criminal's life span, the number of lives the criminal can take is almost endless.

Yes, this is true. But we know that no punishment would be enough for the perpetrators of such crimes. As usual, we can only hope that the perpetrator(s?) of this crime doesn't go UNpunished and that he/they is/are unequivocally thrown the book at with as much weight of the law as possible. (And I would hope as well that Z isn't a scapegoat, as some still believe.)

 

[SANDOVAL]

He is a homeless, unstable guy. I doubt prison will be any punishment. Even though sex offenders don't usually have a nice time.

But if he gets aggravated life imprisonment, which is a "life sentence in solitary confinement", he may be safe then.

I believe he will get "life sentence in solitary confinement without parole" if he doesn't end up in a mental institution.

He may also get less. Legal sanctions don't always make sense because there is a limit to the punishment.

If you sentence a murderer to life imprisonment without parole, what sentence will you give to someone who murders two? The same punishment? Then he/she won't hesitate to commit murder two or more.

So while punishment is limited by criminal's life span, the number of lives the criminal can take is almost endless.

The main point being that the perpetrators should not be allowed to kill anybody else. SS is not coming back however nasty the punishment .

 

[Lostinabook]

The main point being that the perpetrators should not be allowed to kill anybody else. SS is not coming back however nasty the punishment .

Quite true. And they have yet to be caught. The stiffer sentence would still have my vote, though.

 

[NewYork625]

The police decided to reopen the cases of two foreign women who were raped (one in 2007 and the other in 2010) in the same area where Sarai's murder took place. They are suspecting a link between the murder and these rapes.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=399992&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7

Were the two women also killed, or might they be able to identify him?

 

[tardislass]

That is so true. Nobody does anything alone. There is this natural tendency to group in order to satisfy some primitive sense of protection. Perhaps an eastern thing.

Whenever I am having coffee alone, people assume that I'm a tourist.

And when they learn that I'm Turkish, they ask where in Turkey I come from.

It's like going to Buckingham Palace and asking the Queen "do you live here?"

Maybe that's an exaggeration.

I noticed the same thing in Spain. Only tourist women seemed to be alone. All Spanish women I saw were always in a group or pairs.

 

[Lostinabook]

He is a homeless, unstable guy. I doubt prison will be any punishment. Even though sex offenders don't usually have a nice time.

But if he gets aggravated life imprisonment, which is a "life sentence in solitary confinement", he may be safe then.

I believe he will get "life sentence in solitary confinement without parole" if he doesn't end up in a mental institution.

He may also get less. Legal sanctions don't always make sense because there is a limit to the punishment.

If you sentence a murderer to life imprisonment without parole, what sentence will you give to someone who murders two? The same punishment? Then he/she won't hesitate to commit murder two or more.

So while punishment is limited by criminal's life span, the number of lives the criminal can take is almost endless.

Maybe I need to write some more to clarify that I totally understand what you mean, Yashim. I didn't mean to oversimplify -- to sound naive or bloodthirsty with my previous responses, although in part I may be both to some degree. Maybe I was mainly hasty (tired, way past bedtime). So before I catch some z's I'll add that even though a crime has been committed for which, like many others, there can hardly be a punishment to fit, one's human impulse is to hope that the criminal is put as far away from other potential victims as can be perceived. It gives us a sense of security, fairness and justice, however shortlived. Although I won't be one to say that I don't care if said criminal is given a slap on the wrist; I would understand if where he needs to be is in a mental health institution, always hoping he could be helped, rehabilitated. I have no high hopes for our justice systems to be any more than what they are, and as crimes become more and more heinous and humanity becomes increasingly jaded in response, who knows what will become of it? I can only hope that whatever is done as a resolution to this case can help Sarai's family, her children, make some sense of what transpired that fateful day, find some closure and keep their beautiful memories of her alive. And hopefully the Universe will take care of the rest.

Edited to add : Good night!