GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[Herat]

I'm thinking about the "he asked for money" scenario for what he perceived where photos of him. Happens alot in African and Asian countries with poorer people.

He makes gesture of open palm and taps or smacks it. She gives him money out of her pockets and takes of her earrings. He keeps money and leaves earrings.

 

[Herat]

Actually, we know a little bit more. There was one serious (deadly) blow to the skull. (Check out the below article. It is in English)

“There is one serious injury on the left side of her head,” said Ülgütol, refuting reports of multiple injuries.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-306...s-questionable-claims-about-sarai-sierra.html

That article is dated Feb 3, the day after she was found. I would not take it as the gospel truth about the matter.

Another report I read stated that she had been hit in the BACK of the head, as if she was facing away, yet the face is injured enough to make it unrecognizeable.

 

[ThinkHard]

I didn't say 14 karat gold and again, I think you are mistaken.


A gold necklace would sell for its WEIGHT IN GOLD. That is what I wrote. Essentially the weight of a necklace and the weight of the ring would be a few dollars at best.

I'd like a TURKISH poster to correct me if I am wrong.


14 karat gold is garbage in Turkey and most other parts of the world in that region.

It may be used for cheap jewelry. So the fact that this woman had a necklace or ring on is not enough for someone to want to take them to sell them.

The earrings perhaps had diamonds and the person considered those and then dropped them back down.

And yes btw the logic about the malleability of 24 karat gold is well understood. Take a look around the world and you will see that women from the US usually wear cheaper gold if they are "ordinary people."

In this part of the world most women would want 22 or 24 (obviously not total) karat gold. I don't think they'd even consider wearing 14 karat gold. MAYBE 18 karat.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to by "this part of the world"

But in all likely hood she would be wearing 14k gold. And 14 k gold is the common gold used in Turkish jewelry. You can get gold in higher percentages but 14k is still quite common. It is not like India in that regard.

Yashim anyone else who lives in Turkey help me out on this one, cause apparently Chewy want to keep assuming that gold jewelry that is 14k wouldn't be considered worth someone's time.

A gold chain that was close to a Troy once for example, even at 14k would still sell for about 700 dollars based on today's prices. Which would be about 1100 liras. I'm sure someone who has to borrow 100 lira for a bus ticket would be happy with 1100.

 

[Chewy]

Sigh, WEIGHT IN GOLD not price of a necklace. This is quite simple. I already posted it before. A necklace that is worth $100 would not be sold for $100 or anywhere near that price. It would sell for it's weight in gold which would be a few dollars. Maybe not as cheap as $5 but nowhere near $100.

Don't you understand the difference? A necklace for sale to the customer is not the same as a necklace hocked to the jeweler.

If the actual necklace was of quality gold, then perhaps it would worth buying low and reselling high but a 14 karat gold necklace is basically only worth it's weight in gold.

How much do you think that is worth based on the weight? A gold chain and a ring?

 

[ThinkHard]

Sigh, WEIGHT IN GOLD not price of a necklace. This is quite simple. I already posted it before. A necklace that is worth $100 would not be sold for $100 or anywhere near that price. It would sell for it's weight in gold which would be a few dollars. Maybe not as cheap as $5 but nowhere near $100.

Don't you understand the difference? A necklace for sale to the customer is not the same as a necklace hocked to the jeweler.

If the actual necklace was of quality gold, then perhaps it would worth buying low and reselling high but a 14 karat gold necklace is basically only worth it's weight in gold.

How much do you think that is worth based on the weight? A gold chain and a ring?

The major thing you are missing and I keep saying it again and again is that weight and percentage of gold decides THE PRICE! That's how it goes in turkey the price of the jewelry is ALWAYS based on percentage f gold and weight!! That's how the determine how much to sell it for and how much to buy it for.

In turkey when you buy a gold necklace the price could change from day to day depending how much the gold prices fluctuate. There is next to NO mark up for craftsmanship! So yes I understand the difference, I understand markup. But you aren't getting markup is not what the price is based on, and not so when you are selling gold back.

I must be explaining it wrong because you are not understanding.

It's weight in gold would not be less in turkey. If a full Troy ounce of .585 gold was sold to a gold buyer he would by it for roughly 700 dollars, being that today's value of gold is 1600 per Troy ounce.

It would been worth t to the perp to sell the gold. 14k gold is common and he would have known he could make money from it.

 

[Chewy]

And once again a person BUYING a necklace is not the same as a person HOCKING a necklace to a jeweler.

Use your own figures. How much would a 14 karat gold necklace with a charm sell for? How much does it weigh? Use your own numbers.

The high price of a necklace is based on the weight and percentage of gold and also the craftsmanship in making the product.

When you bring in something to sell they don't care about the craftsmanship, they melt it down and create something else with it.

At least that's what they say.

A necklace of 14 karat gold is garbage only useful to meltdown and reshape. That is what the dealer would say.

Even if you brought in a necklace that you paid $400 for, it would only sell for a couple of bucks. This is very common knowledge so I'm not going to continue discussing it. But there is no way he'd get hundreds for a light weight 14 karat gold necklace and ring. No way. And he may have known this as a begger and merchant.

He're's the proof btw, if he IS the one who killed her he DIDN'T take the jewelry.

 

[StCirq]

Yashim, what was it you were asking Skype users in the USA to help with? Or were you joking?

I use Skype frequently, though I'm not an expert with it.

Wanted to add that if the message came to SS's sister at 9:20 am, then as we've said, she was alive 4:20 Turkish time if she indeed send the message. And I don't see how Z could have sent it without knowing English. Even if he DID know/write English, how would he know to say "I'm coming home tomorrow...?" Of course, it could have been sent by another English speaker who DID know of her plans to return home...but who (other than T)? Who else knew she'd changed her plans? The landlord, possibly, but who else?

 

[Herat]

Since we've never seen a photo of the earrings, we don't know what sort of value would be reasonable to assume. She didn't have much money, so I don't see these being of a signficant amout of gold content. Maybe they were not gold at all.

I just think they weren't worth the risk of trying to fence or sell, whereas the electronics in a cell phone or I-pad just looks as though it would be worth more. I doubt Z has much experience with electronics. They just look like they'd be more valuable.

 

[Herat]

But there is no way he'd get hundreds for a light weight 14 karat gold necklace and ring. No way. And he may have known this as a begger and merchant.

He're's the proof btw, if he IS the one who killed her he DIDN'T take the jewelry.

Found on her were a bracelet, a ring, and the earrings were nearby but not in place on her ears.

Only the earrings appear to have been disturbed.

Not likely the earrings were worth much at all. We don't even know if they were gold. They could have just been beads or some silvertone metal.

 

[Chewy]

Since we've never seen a photo of the earrings, we don't know what sort of value would be reasonable to assume. She didn't have much money, so I don't see these being of a signficant amout of gold content. Maybe they were not gold at all.

I just think they weren't worth the risk of trying to fence or sell, whereas the electronics in a cell phone or I-pad just looks as though it would be worth more. I doubt Z has much experience with electronics. They just look like they'd be more valuable.

Absolutely. The electronics would definitely be more of an appealing sell. Young men over there would definitely buy one no questions asked, the same way young men over here would probably do the same. An Ipad? That's a very expensive piece of technology.

Also about the jewelry. When I say that 14 karat gold looks like garbage it's because it almost has a greenish hue to it and looks nothing like the beautiful gold comes out of these areas. It's hard to pinpoint the area but I know Greek, Turkish and Arabic women and their gold is much better quality.

Not the really heavy gold that is in India and Pakistan but suffice it to say that you can definitely tell the difference just by looking at it.

 

[SANDOVAL]

Actually, we know a little bit more. There was one serious (deadly) blow to the skull. (Check out the below article. It is in English)

“There is one serious injury on the left side of her head,” said Ülgütol, refuting reports of multiple injuries.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-306006-police-refute-medias-questionable-claims-about-sarai-sierra.html[/QUOTE

That article is dated Feb 3, the day after she was found. I would not take it as the gospel truth about the matter.

Another report I read stated that she had been hit in the BACK of the head, as if she was facing away, yet the face is injured enough to make it unrecognizeable.

'' Because the site is inaccessible to vehicles, some suggest her body was hidden there after she was killed elsewhere.''
I knew i had read that somewhere......

 

[Yashim]

I doubt a thief would waste his time on one ring and one necklace.......

If I'm wrong about this I'd like our Turkish friends to chime in and correct me.

Dear Chevy and Dear ThinkHard,

I really have no idea about what you are discussing.

All I know is that Gold has a bright yellow color and Turks love it.

In Turkey, rural immigrants of Istanbul (%90) and Anatolian Turks do value gold, land, weapons and cars. That makes up 95% of Turkey. And the more gold the better. I know people who would even prefer gold to diamonds.

Anyway, I phoned a friend.

She told me 14K will still be a sellable piece at the jewelry shops. It may be garbage to some. But gold has no functional utility. (Unless one is allergic to other metals, like my sis.) It is more of a status good, the more you pay for it the more utility you get. That makes each piece of jewelry garbage compared to its superior. It's true but some will say "Garbage", but that's because a higher carat gold will better serve their purposes.

But I honestly don't know what other people think.

What I don't understand is the perp didn't have to decide at that time. Getting rid of jewelry is easy, stealing is difficulty. They were already in his hand.

 

[ThinkHard]

And once again a person BUYING a necklace is not the same as a person HOCKING a necklace to a jeweler.

Use your own figures. How much would a 14 karat gold necklace with a charm sell for? How much does it weigh? Use your own numbers.

The high price of a necklace is based on the weight and percentage of gold and also the craftsmanship in making the product.

When you bring in something to sell they don't care about the craftsmanship, they melt it down and create something else with it.

At least that's what they say.

A necklace of 14 karat gold is garbage only useful to meltdown and reshape. That is what the dealer would say.

Even if you brought in a necklace that you paid $400 for, it would only sell for a couple of bucks. This is very common knowledge so I'm not going to continue discussing it. But there is no way he'd get hundreds for a light weight 14 karat gold necklace and ring. No way. And he may have known this as a begger and merchant.

He're's the proof btw, if he IS the one who killed her he DIDN'T take the jewelry.

Obviously it is only useful to to melt down, I never meant to imply that who he is selling it to would do anything other then melt it down and reshape it.

But when you sell gold they don't just say oh its only 14k, here's 5 bucks. They weigh it out. Look say he brought in even a quarter of a Troy ounce worth of gold and the said gold is 14k. So he has .25 Troy ounce x 1600 today's gold price = 400, but then you multiply 400 x .585 = 234 US dollars. Now the buyer isn't going to give him all of that unless he has access to melt it down himself. But he would give him about $150, and that is for only .25 of a Troy ounce of 14k gold.

(I think for a man who needed to borrow money for a bus ticket it would be worth taking even for this small of an amount)

And yes there are booths all over the grand bazaar, and this is how it goes, and yes they buy 14 k gold.

You are seriously underestimating the value he would have received from selling this jewelry in TURKEY.

I don't know how it is in the countries that you are comparing it to, but between your false assumption about how it s in Turkey, AND my apparent inability to explain this well we seem to be going in circles.

 

[Yashim]

That article is dated Feb 3, the day after she was found. I would not take it as the gospel truth about the matter.

Another report I read stated that she had been hit in the BACK of the head, as if she was facing away, yet the face is injured enough to make it unrecognizeable.

But this is a direct statement from the Head of Public Security Division.

I never recall seeing a direct quote from any member of law enforcement in the other reports.

I believe this to be more reliable.

 

[Chewy]

Oooh thanks Yashim, a cool question I'd be curious to know if you'd like to ring your sis again is if she would wear 14 karat as a necklace.

The point I'm making is that if he'd tried to hock gold before only to receive a couple of bucks for it, he may have realized that it wasn't really worth anything and just gone for the electronics. Just because he could sell it doesn't mean he'd get any money for it.

Many people have the mistaken understanding that what they paid for the gold necklace is what it is worth. AIN"T true, otherwise we would not have any jewelers out there making money.

Thanks so much for being the expert on the scene.

 

[ThinkHard]

Found on her were a bracelet, a ring, and the earrings were nearby but not in place on her ears.

Only the earrings appear to have been disturbed.

Not likely the earrings were worth much at all. We don't even know if they were gold. They could have just been beads or some silvertone metal.

I don't remember about the earrings, but I do remember reading the two chains she was wearing on on neck, one wrapped three times around wrist, where in fact 14k.

 

[Chewy]

Obviously it is only useful to to melt down, I never meant to imply that who he is selling it to would do anything other then melt it down and reshape it.

But when you sell gold they don't just say oh its only 14k, here's 5 bucks. They weigh it out. Look say he brought in even a quarter of a Troy ounce worth of gold and the said gold is 14k. So he has .25 Troy ounce x 1600 today's gold price = 400, but then you multiply 400 x .585 = 234 US dollars. Now the buyer isn't going to give him all of that unless he has access to melt it down himself. But he would give him about $150, and that is for only .25 of a Troy ounce of 14k gold.

(I think for a man who needed to borrow money for a bus ticket it would be worth taking even for this small of an amount)

And yes there are booths all over the grand bazaar, and this is how it goes, and yes they buy 14 k gold.

You are seriously underestimating the value he would have received from selling this jewelry in TURKEY.

I don't know how it is in the countries that you are comparing it to, but between your false assumption about how it s in Turkey, AND my apparent inability to explain this well we seem to be going in circles.

Let me reassure you that there is no way in the WORLD that ANYONE would get $150 for a 14 karat gold chain necklace in resale.

No............way.

 

[zarra30]

I really really really want to know more about that SKYPE calls to the US.

Can any one of you guys over in the US use your connections to find out more about these calls?

Thanks in advance!

:tyou:

What skype calls to the US??? Wow
Did I miss something? When was a skype call made to the US

 

[ThinkHard]

Oooh thanks Yashim, a cool question I'd be curious to know if you'd like to ring your sis again is if she would wear 14 karat as a necklace.

The point I'm making is that if he'd tried to hock gold before only to receive a couple of bucks for it, he may have realized that it wasn't really worth anything and just gone for the electronics. Just because he could sell it doesn't mean he'd get any money for it.

Many people have the mistaken understanding that what they paid for the gold necklace is what it is worth. AIN"T true, otherwise we would not have any jewelers out there making money.

Thanks so much for being the expert on the scene.

For goodness sake, I find you being very rude and disrespectful, this post is full of snide undertones.

I have explained and explained and explained exactly how selling it would have gone down, and that it would have been worth more then a couple of bucks especially to someone who had to ask to borrow money from others.

I understand markup, this isn't about markup. This is simple math about how one would determine and does determine the amount to give some one in exchanges for gold to be melted down. You don't seem to believe me.

I also LIVED with a Turkish family, a WEALTHY Turkish family. And was around many wealthy Turkish women. 14 k gold is common to wear in Turkey. Of course better quality gold is more valuable. But 14 k in jewelry is very very common and because it commone and there is a market for it, there is still value.

 

[Yashim]

It's hard to pinpoint the area but I know Greek, Turkish and Arabic women and their gold is much better quality.

Of course they prefer the higher quality gold. Everybody does.

But there is 14K gold jewelry and there is a price for it, that means it's being bought and sold.

When you take a 14K gold to jewelry shop, they will not say "we prefer 18K". They prefer to make profits.

We are not discussing if the perp would wear it or give it to his sister, just keep it in case he needs cash.

What you're saying sounds like "the thief didn't take the 5 twenty-dollar bills, but he would if it was 1 hundred-dollar bill".