GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[SophieRose]

Ziya's home is near the statue of Turgut Reis.

http://harita.yandex.com.tr/-/CVRPeDl~

 

[zarra30]

Well, I've watched it three times, now, and it sure is fast (why don't they slow it down?), but I don't get that there's a backpack involved. Looks to me like she's either swinging a piece of clothing out in front of her with her right hand or carrying something. But I'm still not convinced it's her.

And look at the video of Ziya's "home" closely. There are some wires or cords in there, suggesting some electronic devices. ???

Thanks, Yes, Exactly. Wish they'd give more than a 2 second look. The image is poor quality enough, and no time, no dates to even connect it sequentially to the others.

It looks like 'the person' takes off the jacket, holds it in right hand, then (hit pause at .28 or at end of video) 'possibly' quickly lifts a scarf over the neck...maybe... but, unfortunately the image is cut off too quick to tell.
But Sarai did wear scarves in other images.

 

[ThinkHard]

Finally, I have noticed that wandering about cities is becoming more common these days with tourists walking with GPS in had (ipad/iphone) just following the walking route suggested by Siri. And IIRC, Siri was having some trouble with really poor routing instructions recently. You can get a false sense of confidence that the GPS is taking you the best walking route. My kids let the GPS lead them, but I demand a good local map (in a foreign city).

...just noodling...(and reading back)

Good point.

The thing that is strange to me though considering this, is that Kennedy cadessi is a very busy road, 4 lanes, two each way, almost more like a highway, its not really so much of a pedestrian road. It takes you around the circumference of the golden horn peninsula, and completely away from all of the tourist sights.

It seems, at least to me, an odd direction coming from serkeci for a tourist to wander, its pretty clear leaving the serkeci area, that Kennedy takes you away from anything, not towards anything.

 

[Yashim]

Welcome to the board. Thanks for joining us!

I noticed this is your first post ever. This board is really about discussing the case, not joining it to makes comments like that.

There is no ganging up going on, she personally attacked me to begin with and continued to do so. The issue is in the past now and I think I and the rest of this board would like to focus on the case.

If you'd like to join us on that issue, we'd love to have you!

I totally agree, but I still appreciate that at least he didn't come in here to score an easy homerun by saying

Hush! We're having a funeral here
Pack up your toys and go play some place else

at the expense of making us feel even worse as if we hadn't tormented ourselves enough trying to imagine day after day, night after night, the fear, the desperation and the agony Sarai must have felt at the hands of that beast.


...

 

[ThinkHard]

Thanks.

I agree. I have taken photos at historical sites, where people in the area were not the intended subject of my photo. Yet, they expected to be paid for the photo, none-the-less. Which, is why I asked the question.

I also feel the idea that her electronics were taken & destroyed intentionally, due to the photos that were feared to be on them after the fact - is a reasonable one.

Also if her electronics were taken solely for fear of photos on them, wouldn't they have just smashed them at the location, instead of taking the risk of being caught with them? Or caught trying to sell them?

 

[Yashim]

His friends said he would go to prison in the winter to stay warm

And I told you before, I know these guys. For these guys, prison is not quite the punishment you'd think.

When you tell them "I hope you rot in jail", they hear it as "I hope you enjoy your stay at the Four Seasons".


Sad, but true.

....

 

[StCirq]

And I told you before, I know these guys. For these guys, prison is not quite the punishment you'd think.

When you tell them "I hope you rot in jail", they hear it as "I hope you enjoy your stay at the Four Seasons".


Sad, but true.

....

The same is true here in Washington, DC. When it gets cold and miserable, homeless people do whatever it takes to land in jail so their needs can be taken care of. We actually know a couple of homeless people in the neighborhood and when it begins to get really cold or snow or whatever, we urge them to either go to a shelter (which they are always reluctant to do), or do something stupid that the police will pick up on and, one hopes, put them in jail until the weather improves.

I'm still wondering about what looks like an electronic cord that seems to be stretching across Z's bed in that video. Well, I'm still wondering about 1,000 things, but that's my latest obsession. Why would a homeless guy living in a cave have an electronic cord, one that looks like it might connect to a cell phone or iPad or computer or something?

 

[Herat]

Is anyone else surprised to find Z's supposed home still contains bedding, clothing and "stuff"?

If Z is the object of a country-wide manhunt, I would have thought proper LE protocol would have all that stuff down at a crime lab, and the room scrupulously examined and totally secured.

Earlier (much earlier) there was discussion, probably led by LE comments, that SS was assaulted at Z's cave and then moved to the cave she was found in. If so, that would make this a HUGELY important part of the investigation and subject to extreme CSI evaluation.

I had assumed Z's cave was on the railroad side of the wall and the blood trail from the assault site to the walled arch where she was found occured on that same side.

The video shows a much more exposed place, open to much more scrutiny by passing vehicles or tourists and would mean he had to move the body late at night.

Somehow, I just don't think this is the right place. I'm sure someone calls it home, but all the above makes me think it isn't Z's.

Which brings me to the thought that there would be a hierarchy amongst these vagrants/druggies. That's a pretty nice place, other than being on the busy side. Big, a door, flat floor and walls. I wonder how Z ranks in the hierarchy of the denizens of the wall. My guess is probably pretty high.

 

[ThinkHard]

Is anyone else surprised to find Z's supposed home still contains bedding, clothing and "stuff"?

If Z is the object of a country-wide manhunt, I would have thought proper LE protocol would have all that stuff down at a crime lab, and the room scrupulously examined and totally secured.

Earlier (much earlier) there was discussion, probably led by LE comments, that SS was assaulted at Z's cave and then moved to the cave she was found in. If so, that would make this a HUGELY important part of the investigation and subject to extreme CSI evaluation.

I had assumed Z's cave was on the railroad side of the wall and the blood trail from the assault site to the walled arch where she was found occured on that same side.

The video shows a much more exposed place, open to much more scrutiny by passing vehicles or tourists and would mean he had to move the body late at night.

Somehow, I just don't think this is the right place. I'm sure someone calls it home, but all the above makes me think it isn't Z's.

Which brings me to the thought that there would be a hierarchy amongst these vagrants/druggies. That's a pretty nice place, other than being on the busy side. Big, a door, flat floor and walls. I wonder how Z ranks in the hierarchy of the denizens of the wall. My guess is probably pretty high.

I'm thinking that is Z's cave....however not the cave she was supposedly murdered in....meaning I don't think she was murdered in Z's cave at all....I think that was just a media speculation.

 

[Chewy]

1. I'm a jeweler. It's my profession.

2. If anyone calls 14k jewelry "junk", "garbage", "trash" or any other derogatory term, I'm going to flip out. That's incredibly rude considering that 14k is standard for gold jewelry in the US, and is what most people wear for their truly sentimental pieces, like engagement rings, etc. Calling it garbage is really hurtful and it sounds derogatory towards the victim. Plus it's just plain silly and untrue.

3. 14k is certainly valuable. I recently scrapped a 14k tennis bracelet after removing the diamonds from it. The total weight of the finding was probably equivalent to that of a very long gold chain and a ring, maybe a hair more. I got $150 for it without even trying. I once shipped all my scrap gold (14k) to one of those rip off gold buying places and they sent me over $200, and it was just a tiny itty bitty envelope full. A friend of mine inherited all her mother's jewelry when she passed away and it filled a ziploc sandwich bag (probably weighed over a pound, lots and lots of chains). She got $7k cash for the scrap gold. I'd say that every scenario resulted in a fair bit more than a few dollars. The assertion that 14k has no value TO A HOMELESS PERSON is ludicrous.

I would most certainly NOT assume that Sarai's jewelry was not valuable just because her killer left it behind. If we know it's 14k and we know it was left behind, then to me the most logical assumption is that the killer was known to Sarai or was someone who would not have seen $50+ as worthwhile.

PS - 14k is considered "fine jewelry" as opposed to costume jewelry. And if I'm remembering correctly, her wedding ring was missing, but other gold jewelry was left behind? That sure sounds personal to me, unless perhaps Sarai never wore her ring that day, or she removed it and carried it in her missing bag.

I think this is the part that caused me trouble. I thought I made it clear that the standard of gold in the US is not the same elsewhere.

It seems people have personalized a generalized statement regarding culture. It is a cultural standard. 14 karat gold is junk jewelry in places outside the US. That's my observation. The fact that this observation is considered "rude" is mind boggling to me. Really? How in the world can people get upset by this statement, I have no idea. But I apologize nonetheless.

Also, there is a very big difference between scrapping gold as a legitimate owner, and hocking stolen merchandize.


I don't care to argue with people who don't understand this any more and are making a federal case out of it.

It was not my intention to desparage the victim or other fans of 14 karat gold.

Thanks by the way for your professional opinion. (And no this isn't snarky it's sincere)

 

[Emma Peel]

Also if her electronics were taken solely for fear of photos on them, wouldn't they have just smashed them at the location, instead of taking the risk of being caught with them? Or caught trying to sell them?

I had a thought that the electronics - they're in the river. Would it be easy to walk them there and throw them in?

 

[Chewy]

Look we can all get a little passionate, or intense, or frustrated, or insert another emotion here....

And sometimes without meaning to between our emotions, and the fact you cannot really tell in writing how someone actually intends something....

Things can get misinterpreted and people can feel under attack on this board...

I know I have been guilty of this myself.

However I think it is important to acknowledge when perhaps we have crossed a line, and also try our hardest to be self aware enough to learn from mistakes we make, or ways in which we can communicate our ideas yet come across less aggressive.

I think sometimes instead of just giving excuses and saying well that's just the way I am, we should try to use the opportunity to be a little more self aware, and self controlled.

I will definitely try to be more mindful. It never ever occurred to me that people were thinking I was slighting the victim or any other people who buy this type of gold.

Once again, I apologize.

 

[ThinkHard]

I had a thought that the electronics - they're in the river. Would it be easy to walk them there and throw them in?

Well its not a river...it's the part where the Bosphorous straight meets the Sea of Marmara (the Bosphorous connects the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea), all salt water....but that's just FYI.

To chuck them immediately, they would have to run across a four lane road, and potentially be seen.

But more to the point the electronics were reportedly activated several days after she disappeared, which if that's true, would mean at least to that point where not tossed in the sea.

So I'm not sure why someone soley concerned about pictures would wait so long to chuck them in the sea/ destroy them.

 

[Herat]

Hey.

We don't have a substantial database about this jewelry.

We have only ever seen the coiled rose ring. No one here knows if this jewelry was brought from the US or bought in Turkey (or even Amsterdam).

I'm really tired of this bickering.

 

[Chewy]

And I told you before, I know these guys. For these guys, prison is not quite the punishment you'd think.

When you tell them "I hope you rot in jail", they hear it as "I hope you enjoy your stay at the Four Seasons".


Sad, but true.

....

We have an equivalent expression in the US. "Two hots and a cot"

Basically, prison ain't so bad, you get two hot meals and a cot and medical.

 

[Emma Peel]

Well its not a river...it's the part where the Bosphorous straight meets the Sea of Marmara (the Bosphorous connects the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea), all salt water....but that's just FYI.

To chuck them immediately, they would have to run across a four lane road, and potentially be seen.

But more to the point the electronics were reportedly activated several days after she disappeared, which if that's true, would mean at least to that point where not tossed in the sea.

So I'm not sure why someone soley concerned about pictures would wait so long to chuck them in the sea/ destroy them.

Thanks for clarifying that - I had missed this important detail on the electronics being activated days after she disappeared. so much for that... :blushing:

perhaps they were just tossed. or perhaps the electronics are part of the 95% of case info not being shared by police.

Lost tourist, wrong place, wrong time, uncooperative witnesses. Senseless.

 

[Fantazteko]

I'm still wondering about what looks like an electronic cord that seems to be stretching across Z's bed in that video. Well, I'm still wondering about 1,000 things, but that's my latest obsession. Why would a homeless guy living in a cave have an electronic cord, one that looks like it might connect to a cell phone or iPad or computer or something?

Perhaps it's something he trash-picked and used as a makeshift clothesline.

 

[Snowball58]

I think this is the part that caused me trouble. I thought I made it clear that the standard of gold in the US is not the same elsewhere.

It seems people have personalized a generalized statement regarding culture. It is a cultural standard. 14 karat gold is junk jewelry in places outside the US. That's my observation. The fact that this observation is considered "rude" is mind boggling to me. Really? How in the world can people get upset by this statement, I have no idea. But I apologize nonetheless.

Also, there is a very big difference between scrapping gold as a legitimate owner, and hocking stolen merchandize.


I don't care to argue with people who don't understand this any more and are making a federal case out of it.

It was not my intention to desparage the victim or other fans of 14 karat gold.

Thanks by the way for your professional opinion. (And no this isn't snarky it's sincere)

I'm half Indian, have traveled all over the world, and have worked with foreign jewelers from every corner. I still can't understand the assertion that 14k gold is "junk" or, essentially worthless, in some parts of the world. This just plain isn't so.

In India, the gold people value and wear is almost exclusively 22k or 24k. But my dad still brings my mom's scrap gold (mostly 14k) to India every time he travels there because he can sell it in any gold shop and they pay well for it because they will be melting it down and extracting the pure gold content, which will then be refined back into the high karat gold they prefer. He doesn't have to show proof of ownership and he's not "hocking" it - it could be stolen for all they care. There are goldsmiths in every shopping center and they just weigh it, calculate it and pay cash - takes 2 minutes and off you pop. No reason they wouldn't do the same for Z if he walked in off the street. I can't think of a country where high karat gold is more revered than India, yet 14k still has real monetary value there, so why wouldn't it be the same in Turkey? What we're talking about is selling the gold for melting, not selling the jewelry to a pawn shop to be resold intact - 2 completely different animals.

The only thing I can think that you are trying to say, but which hasn't totally come across, is that maybe the perp assumed it was costume jewelry because 14k is uncommon in Turkey, so he left it behind thinking it was worthless? If it's true that 14k is unusual in Turkey (I haven't been there specifically), and this is your assertion, then I can see how it could be possible. But that's saying something very different than the claim that 14k IS worthless in some places, therefore it's treated like trash. I don't believe this to be true anywhere on earth. Any karat gold is still a precious metal worth money to any goldsmith.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm half Indian, have traveled all over the world, and have worked with foreign jewelers from every corner. I still can't understand the assertion that 14k gold is "junk" or, essentially worthless, in some parts of the world. This just plain isn't so.

In India, the gold people value and wear is almost exclusively 22k or 24k. But my dad still brings my mom's scrap gold (mostly 14k) to India every time he travels there because he can sell it in any gold shop and they pay well for it because they will be melting it down and extracting the pure gold content, which will then be refined back into the high karat gold they prefer. He doesn't have to show proof of ownership and he's not "hocking" it - it could be stolen for all they care. There are goldsmiths in every shopping center and they just weigh it, calculate it and pay cash - takes 2 minutes and off you pop. No reason they wouldn't do the same for Z if he walked in off the street. I can't think of a country where high karat gold is more revered than India, yet 14k still has real monetary value there, so why wouldn't it be the same in Turkey? What we're talking about is selling the gold for melting, not selling the jewelry to a pawn shop to be resold intact - 2 completely different animals.

The only thing I can think that you are trying to say, but which hasn't totally come across, is that maybe the perp assumed it was costume jewelry because 14k is uncommon in Turkey, so he left it behind thinking it was worthless? If it's true that 14k is unusual in Turkey (I haven't been there specifically), and this is your assertion, then I can see how it could be possible. But that's saying something very different than the claim that 14k IS worthless in some places, therefore it's treated like trash. I don't believe this to be true anywhere on earth. Any karat gold is still a precious metal worth money to any goldsmith.

Thank you so much. I have been trying to explain this again and again, but the message didn't seem to stick. Hopefully in your wording it makes more sense, as I was failing in my own.

And as one who lived in Turkey, 14K is not uncommon in Turkey. Of course you can also find 18k, 22k, and 24k. But 14k is still common gold and commonly used to make jewelry in Turkey.

 

[wpoe]

Can we get off the issue of gold? It is a very insignificant point to this case. It speaks to motive, or the lack of theft being the motive, to be more precise.

We cannot apply a logical thought process on the part of the perp. It was obviously a case of uncontrolled rage probably brought on by anguished screams or raking finger nails across the face. Who knows what goes through that mind? If it were an illogical act would there then be logical follow-on thought about the scene and value of items?