GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[delal]

True. Though one could argue that a lone attractive female would stand out in just about any city in the world.

I think standing out and being in danger are two separate things. I don't think just because a woman stands out in Istanbul (or any city) because she is attractive and she is alone automatically put her in dangerous.

What I had meant to say was that because lone women stand out more, it's more believable that a street vendor would have noticed and recognised Sierra.

Also, there are far fewer women alone here than in other cities. Not necessarily because of anything to do with danger, but just a culture where people prefer to do things in groups. Sometimes I go to a cafe on my own, and I will almost always be the only person alone. Not so in London or New York.

 

[Yashim]

I think catcalling is an American phenomenon like roasted marshmallows or presidents posing with their feet up on coffee tables.

 

[ThinkHard]

If multiple people are involved, I'd say she is targeted and this is a planned attack.

No murderer calls for such help at the risk of creating witnesses who may turn him in or bargain with the LE.

And if this is a two-three people thing, why the need for such a messy crime?

If its planned, then I'm banking on a staged cover up to make it look like a homeless guy.

But if she was the target of a group...I doubt their original plans for her where murder....so what could have gone down/ wrong to create a spontaneous or planned murder motive?

 

[alabaster]

I can see your path to the walls, through gulhane park a much more plausible way for someone to have randomly wandered there.

Thanks for your reply! You probably have a point here. Although I find it hard to believe she had a meeting arranged there. If she did go, once she had reached Sarayburnu, she would have had the same direction as me, right? Going south?

(O/T My trip was tops, just 1 week. Saw lots of the Asian coast Kadikoy down to Kartal. The great Old Town attractions, Beyoglu arts und and music places. Walked Tophane to Ortakoy, then uphill to Fulya and Nisantasi to see how they make it all new. Missed Topkapi palace this time, twice, because it was closing for the day, which led me via Gulhane down to the walls the first time.)

 

[ThinkHard]

What I had meant to say was that because lone women stand out more, it's more believable that a street vendor would have noticed and recognised Sierra.

Also, there are far fewer women alone here than in other cities. Not necessarily because of anything to do with danger, but just a culture where people prefer to do things in groups. Sometimes I go to a cafe on my own, and I will almost always be the only person alone. Not so in London or New York.

Gotcha good point. Btw I wasn't disagreeing with what you said before just adding on to it.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think catcalling is an American phenomenon like roasted marshmallows or presidents posing with their feet up on coffee tables.

Well I've definitely been what I would considered cat called in Istanbul....maybe I should think of another less American nickname for it

 

[Yashim]

If its planned, then I'm banking on a staged cover up to make it look like a homeless guy.

But if she was the target of a group...I doubt their original plans for her where murder....so what could have gone down/ wrong to create a spontaneous or planned murder motive?

Perhaps something went horribly wrong. But not in the way we think.

 

[delal]

usually psst psst psst

 

[Yashim]

Well I've definitely been what I would considered cat called in Istanbul....maybe I should think of another less American nickname for it

I apologize on their behalf.

In Italy, they say women should take that as a compliment.

What I am saying is that it is not socially acceptable. It can still happen. Yet, they wouldn't be catcalling you in front of their parents.

 

[Yashim]

usually psst psst psst

:floorlaugh:

That's nothing. Even I get that. Kidding.


That reminds me of the time when a friend of mine was telling about his country. He said "in some parts it is very dangerous for blonds to walk alone, they may be sexually assaulted".

And I said, "but most women in your country cover their heads. How can anyone tell that they are blond?"

He says "I'm not talking about women."

:floorlaugh:

 

[alabaster]

Perhaps something went horribly wrong. But not in the way we think.

ThinkHard, Yashim: Perhaps her determination to defend her ipad (photos, contacts, her new life).

 

[bet2173]

The police decided to reopen the cases of two foreign women who were raped (one in 2007 and the other in 2010) in the same area where Sarai's murder took place. They are suspecting a link between the murder and these rapes.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=399992&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7

 

[Herat]

Pssst, catcalls or not

A lone petite, attractive young woman walking on the ground behind the walls or along the train tracks may be perceived as having a very different intent than the same woman walking along a busy street in front of tourist sites, cafes, or shops.

Drugs, prostitution, police?

 

[Herat]

the police decided to reopen the cases of two foreign women who were raped (one in 2007 and the other in 2010) in the same area where sarai's murder took place. They are suspecting a link between the murder and these rapes.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=399992&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7

finally

Shouldn't this be one of the very FIRST lines of investigation, oh like maybe on Feb 2 instead of Feb 19?

I hope there is strong DNA evidence from the former two crimes.

 

[Herat]

ThinkHard, Yashim: Perhaps her determination to defend her ipad (photos, contacts, her new life).

How can we be sure she even had her I-pad with her?

It's only an assumption by it's omission.

 

[Yashim]

What I had meant to say was that because lone women stand out more, it's more believable that a street vendor would have noticed and recognised Sierra.

Also, there are far fewer women alone here than in other cities. Not necessarily because of anything to do with danger, but just a culture where people prefer to do things in groups. Sometimes I go to a cafe on my own, and I will almost always be the only person alone. Not so in London or New York.

That is so true. Nobody does anything alone. There is this natural tendency to group in order to satisfy some primitive sense of protection. Perhaps an eastern thing.

Whenever I am having coffee alone, people assume that I'm a tourist.

And when they learn that I'm Turkish, they ask where in Turkey I come from.

It's like going to Buckingham Palace and asking the Queen "do you live here?"

Maybe that's an exaggeration.

 

[Yashim]

How can we be sure she even had her I-pad with her?

It's only an assumption by it's omission.

I don't even see a handbag when she is in Eminönü.

 

[Yashim]

The police decided to reopen the cases of two foreign women who were raped (one in 2007 and the other in 2010) in the same area where Sarai's murder took place. They are suspecting a link between the murder and these rapes.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=399992&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7

I am betting there won't be any connection. This was something else. Those were rapes. This is murder but no rape.

 

[bet2173]

I'm asking this because I can't keep a record of what we have discussed in the previous threads anymore. Has anyone here mentioned the text on SS's sister in law's instagram account where she mentioned that SS was headed to the Anatolian side on the day she was missed her flight. She must have told this info either to her best friend Maggie or her husband.

Do we know her flight time?

 

[monkey222]

I cannot get out of my head that it was mentioned in Turk paper (sorry no link) that she may have met boarder house man (NOT landlord), who she had inet contact with. Maybe went to club, and then bad things happened. Maybe even went to his house? willingly to compare vs her current basement rental. To compare perhaps for next trip. Just my theory.