GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #6

[alpmighty]

That's what I don't understand as well. We're not just talking about someone's opinion and it's family versus friends.

We're talking about a man who has been homeless since he was 11 years old, in jail for theft and btw alpmighty isn't 7 years a long time for just stealing over there?

And one who gave up a home and chose to pick garbage and live on the streets. We have people like that here in NYC as well and they are usually mentally ill. It's easier for them to be the ignored weirdo on the street than the whacko in the apartment building that constantly has the cops called.

Not to mention that one look at the mans picture is like HELLO?

But hey, if his friends think he's cool then it must be a fact. :what:

Even his friends are only able to say "We grew up together in the same neighborhood, he was a guy that couldn't even hurt a fly, but I wouldn't know how he would be under the influence of weed, thinner or glue".

Chewy, Ziya was sentenced for theft two decades ago. Sentencing guidelines were much harsher back then. EU accession process softened the sentencing guidelines starting with late 90s and 2000s.

 

[ThinkHard]

Not just family statements. Ziya's life story, his choice of quitting a regular paying job, abandoning an apartment that was provided to him by his family to live the life of a derelict, a drifter, sleeping on streets, collecting garbage does not relate well with any pattern of rational behavior. Add to that, even if he was unable to function around a daily routine, his family, being rural and relatively well off, would have offered him sanctuary. But he wanted to live on streets, he wanted to forego everything, he wanted to collect garbage and sleep in caves.

How is this rational behavior? If this makes sense to anybody, then perhaps I'm deranged and mentally unstable myself? Perhaps giving up a home on with a roof on top, giving up a regular paying job, choosing to collect paper and to sleep in caves and on streets is a perfectly rational choice when it comes to deciding how you live? Then it would mean I have wasted all my life so far. I should start correcting my ways by selling my degrees as scrap paper!

Even that "he wouldn't even hurt a chicken" remark provided by his childhood friend was followed on by "but I wouldn't know how he would be after getting high on glue, smoking weed or inhaling thinner, I wouldn't vouch for him if he was under the influence".

Moreover, "This is going to be pinned on you" story was provided to the same childhood friend by Ziya himself, who was cynical towards the same story.

The quote in the article I saw was ...

Mr Ozden said he does not believe his friend is capable of murder: 'Normally, he's not the killing type. I've known him since childhood. I don't know what happens to people who sniff glue or paint thinner and how they lose themselves.

'Forget killing a person, he can't even cut a chicken. Ziya was the same as always. There was nothing odd about him. We only know he went to prison for petty crimes in the winter because he doesn't have a place to stay.'


I'm not sure what article the direct quote you are referring to came from.

I wrote a really long post, explaining my thoughts on other reasons Z might have chosen to live on the streets other then being mentally insane. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

 

[Meri]

No that's the thing, I only remember reading reference to those, conveniently after Sarai was found, I never remember actually seeing actually quotes on these exchanges. And always had doubts about then, as we were told originally those three message exchanges btw Taylan and sarai were the last messages exchanged btw them.

I swear, I remember reading actual texts, but not only can I not remember where, I don't even remember if it was before or after SS was found. Sorry!

 

[SophieRose]

Here's the translation of a Turkish article, as requested by SophieRose.

It was established that Sarai Sierra, whoose body was discovered in old city walls near Cankurtaran was murdered in a gallery 100 meters away from the location her lifeless body was discovered.

February 14th, 2013 Thursday 20.20

A luminal examination revealed that Sarai's body was moved from the gallery, in which traces of Sarai's blood was discovered to the gallery and concealed there. In addition, Police discovered bloody rocks in the same gallery which has been established as where Sarai was killed.

So she was killed in one "cave" or gallery and moved to the other? But we learned later that it wasn't the "home" cave of Z. Was the murder site on the seaside or the train side? And are there like hallways inside some of the walls? Did they follow the blood trail to find the murder cave, or was luminol used? Here's an article, translated to English also on Feb 14, that says they didn't know where the murder happened and were going to use soil samples from her boots.

Old article, not new
http://english.sabah.com.tr/National/2013/02/14/sierras-murder-to-be-solved-by-the-mud-on-her-boots

For the record, I've always thought it was someone who lived within the walls (especially once T was cleared), and was a sexual assault (the pants pulled below the knees.)

 

[zarra30]

I sure hope its LE who solves this case.

I too had said some of the very things you stated, and appreciate your wording.
I think collaboration is important and certainly helps us all see things differently.

Personally, though admittedly some of my theories are out there, they were still well thought out within the context of the information we have been provided.

And as I have also said many times, and completely agree with you, deciphering all the conflicting info, to determine what is and isn't true is really confusing, and leads to very few absolutes.

So we are left to ponder, and speculate, and question, and propose ideas, LE I'm sure runs in their heads no shortage of scenarios themselves. That's how they solve crimes, its not like all the puzzle peices are just handed to them. They work with the pieces they have, they theororize, the attempt guessing that might fill in the holes, and the "research" information that can help confirm or deny those theories.

The difference between LE and those of us here on webslueths is that LE has the capabilities to compare their theories against real data to help strengthen or weaken their theories. We do not have that ability, we do not have access to suspect, witnesses, actual evidence....we are only left with 5% of what they know. And of what we know we don't even know what of the information is within the 5% of accurate information.

Yes, you had/have a lot of good ideas. As have so many on this board.
I could not agree more with your emphasis on collaboration. I enjoy your theories and didn't think any of yours were more 'out there' than mine and others, considering the earlier slew of information and fabrication and misinterpretation. In the beginning, it really was an anything could happen kind of a case... maybe it still is to some...to many...

It's been one heck of a roller coaster ride, but we haven't lately gotten anything really new, and still not enough confirmed. With little to go on, we have been going around in circles. Hope we can all show respect and stay on task.

 

[zarra30]

So she was killed in one "cave" or gallery and moved to the other? But we learned later that it wasn't the "home" cave of Z. Was the murder site on the seaside or the train side? And are there like hallways inside some of the walls? Did they follow the blood trail to find the murder cave, or was luminol used?

For the record, I've always thought it was someone who lived within the walls (especially once T was cleared), and was a sexual assault (the pants pulled below the knees.)

Great questions. It certainly seems it is people who live in those walls.
I had assumed it was the cave side, because it's a long highway, and the you tube videos showed the polis walking all over the area atop the hill and near the train tracks, but I'm not positive.

But if she was moved from Cave A to 'Z's cave then it looks like Z might be being framed, no? The DNA and blood certainly show he's involved, but I don't think he'd drag her all that way to his cave. And if that was his blanket covering her, as I think I recall some paper saying, it seems fishy. The pants down could mean attempted assault or another staging, like having her license next to her.

There was an article posted, I think the one you posted that mentioned the 4 people involved in the murder and now they may have more.

 

[SophieRose]

But a close friend in Ziya T.'s hometown had a different version. Over coffee, the friend said Ziya fled Istanbul because police would try to frame him for Sierra's murder, the Daily News said. His friend said Ziya divulged that he wanted to get into Iran, according to a report in Turkish media.

He doesn't need to go through Syria to get to Iran, Turkey has a border with Iran.

 

[SophieRose]

Great questions. It certainly seems it is people who live in those walls.
I had assumed it was the cave side, because it's a long highway, and the you tube videos showed the polis walking all over the area atop the hill and near the train tracks, but I'm not positive.

But if she was moved from Cave A to 'Z's cave then it looks like Z might be being framed, no? The DNA and blood certainly show he's involved, but I don't think he'd drag her all that way to his cave. And if that was his blanket covering her, as I think I recall some paper saying, it seems fishy. The pants down could mean attempted assault or another staging, like having her license next to her.

There was an article posted, I think the one you posted that mentioned the 4 people involved in the murder and now they may have more.

Her body wasn't found in Z's cave, his cave is actually near the statue on the street side. That also wasn't the murder spot. Now it's been written she crossed the street at some point. Not too far from Z's "cave" is a gate, which possibly could go to the train tracks. I'm thinking she could have crossed there and the murder site is near there.

 

[zarra30]

I might be reading too much into this latest series of news, but it looks to me like she was possibly targeted by a smalll group who expected to rob her.

She wasn't passive and maybe that surprised them. Sometimes when your not that big physically, you learn to be tough in other ways. Her husband said she could take care of herself and I'm guessing she did. Perhaps she even carried something for protection. It wouldn't surprise me.

I would expect she injured at least one of them, if not more, in that fight to the death. So they may have other DNA related to that and before they release everything they need Z.
imo

 

[zarra30]

Sorry, I stand corrected.

Alpmighty: Note: This article was posted before LE made a match between Ziya's DNA and the DNA obtained from a blood stain on SS' shirt. The search at Safranbolu resulted in LE grabbing samples from Ziya's relatives domiciles, such samples are either reported to be belonging to Ziya directly (his hair on pillows as he stopped by there before bailing out to Hatay) or was familial DNA grabbed from his mother and brother

I didn't realize the article was written before Z' DNA was collected. So my idea of a small group targeting her and LE looking for several sets of DNA is inaccurate.

 

[SophieRose]

Let me ask Alpmighty,or anyone else, did you read that SS did communicate to T that she had an interest in seeing the walls?

I recall her texting to T something about leaving now and she could go by herself...was that specifically for the walls? At 12:30 or so some accounts say T texted her he'll join her and hopes she has her wireless (was that for gps location?)

I also read once that T was to meet her at the Galata Bridge Eminonu side . Isn't that right in the area of the caves?

The last still picture of her which some of said is her at a take-out place , is that Galata Bridge, Eminonu side?

Thanks, just trying to piece together these last known pieces.

This was my post at the end of thread #5. Anyone have any answer?

http://english.sabah.com.tr/Nationa...ailed-to-meet-up-with-missing-american-mother

 

[alabaster]

But to simplify this case by only focusing on a few of the details we have heard, is unfair to the case, and unfair to Sarai. I encourage anyone of us to speculate, analyze, and discuss the facts and possibilities in this case without fear of being under attack for their ideas.

That's OK with me, but I personally differentiate between Le-confirmed details, first-hand circumstantial experience of the location etc. from us all and existing online postings from Sarai and contacts (all good clues) and witness accounts or police findings only reported in tabloids (from my experience I tend to discard them all).

 

[Fantazteko]

Nothing of any substance to add.

I am disappointed to see the turn this has taken. After all is said and done, it appears like we’ve been led down a blind alley.

But I await news that’ll soon prove me wrong.

Hopefully Turkish police will keep the heat on whoever is responsible until they are brought to justice, for the sake of the victim’s family.

It's sad. Nobody deserves to die an untimely death.

I’ve really enjoyed the discussion, and admire the efforts made by people who are complete strangers to the Sierra family to solve this heinous crime.

This alone should give us all some hope...

 

[SandyP]

Just noticed Laura Wells, reporter based in Istanbul who has co-authored the Daily Mail's ongoing SS coverage, suggested yesterday on twitter that there may be some kind of "cover-up" involved. I have contacts get in hopes she will elaborate.

I speculate maybe framing of Z in protection of someone else, possibly a well-connected individual? How much do we know about Taylan and his background/standing in Turkish society?

 

[Chewy]

Just noticed Laura Wells, reporter based in Istanbul who has co-authored the Daily Mail's ongoing SS coverage, suggested yesterday on twitter that there may be some kind of "cover-up" involved. I have contacts get in hopes she will elaborate.

I speculate maybe framing of Z in protection of someone else, possibly a well-connected individual? How much do we know about Taylan and his background/standing in Turkish society?

My original interpretation of this whole thing is that she was deliberately killed and left in this area in order to throw suspicion onto a homeless person.

I thought that she might have gotten mixed up (unknowingly) in some sort of drug activity and used as an unwitting drug mule to transfer heroin to Amsterdam. After it all went through she realized what happened and this is why she decided to cut her trip short. She's not going to be able to let anyone know back here in the States, because she fears that if she says anything she could wind up trapped over there for an investigation and possibly jailed. But once she figures it out the guys involved know she knows so they kill her.

But the DNA evidence is far too compelling.

 

[bellyup]

I' m a little late in catching up ... However, I do have one comment.

Since when are DNA test results "100%" positive ? I've seen 100% negative (ie; it's NOT this person) but I don't think I've EVER seen 100% positive. It's usually 99.9% or 99.8%, etc.

Of course the percentage doesn't matter as both are considered to be conclusive (as in a positive result) and usually uphold in court as a positive result. However it's always been a formality by LE in the states, because there is always that 0.0001% chance it's incorrect. The likelihood of this happening is usually well below 0.001% (1 in 100,000), but it depends in large part on the ethnic origin of the individuals involved.

Which makes me wonder about Turkish LE saying it's 100% a match.

I'm really starting to believe the LE knows exactly what happened to Sarai and they are purposefully setting up someone to take the fall. (ie; covering someone elses butt).

 

[pbj]

The recent post that they are testing the soil on SS's shoes to see if it was from the cave area or another place, makes it seem LE has not completely ruled out the earlier theory that SS was brought to the walls after her death. Just to spin out some theories counter to Z. doing it (which the majority of the evidence indicates he did, IF the evidence is to believed) but:

I did notice she allegedly saw the men at the mosque each time the day after she saw T.

Earlier reports say she was seen with the criminal element.

Earlier reports say they are checking out Munich...and nothing more was released that I saw on Munich.

The mosque sighting, also said she saw the men on Jan 21st, the day she went missing. Suppose she did see them, and they said to get paid she needs to go down to Eminonu, the cave area. They knew was not going to get paid, but rather killed. The killers took her and killed her, with a rock from the cave (to frame a homeless person). At first, the police said it looked professional, was that because there were no fingerprints on her?

She was asking T. to go with her to get paid.He said he'd be a long but was never planning to meet her, because he knew what was going to happen.

She was nervous when she was photographed waiting by the take-out place. When T. asked if she had wireless...it was not for him but the killers.

The white car sighting was correct. The killers had already taken Z's blanket to wrap her in. They staged a cave and dragged the body, wrapped her in Z's blanket. They left out her license and left eaarrings to make it look like a robbery and had already removed her pants to make it look like a rape.

Complicated. Still believe it's Z and it was a photo shoot gone awry, but just putting this out there as a counter-theory

 

[SophieRose]

The recent post that they are testing the soil on SS's shoes to see if it was from the cave area or another place, makes it seem LE has not completely ruled out the earlier theory that SS was brought to the walls after her death. Just to spin out some theories counter to Z. doing it (which the majority of the evidence indicates he did, IF the evidence is to believed) but:

I did notice she allegedly saw the men at the mosque each time the day after she saw T.

Earlier reports say she was seen with the criminal element.

Earlier reports say they are checking out Munich...and nothing more was released that I saw on Munich.

The mosque sighting, also said she saw the men on Jan 21st, the day she went missing. Suppose she did see them, and they said to get paid she needs to go down to Eminonu, the cave area. They knew was not going to get paid, but rather killed. The killers took her and killed her, with a rock from the cave (to frame a homeless person). At first, the police said it looked professional, was that because there were no fingerprints on her?

She was asking T. to go with her to get paid.He said he'd be a long but was never planning to meet her, because he knew what was going to happen.

She was nervous when she was photographed waiting by the take-out place. When T. asked if she had wireless...it was not for him but the killers.

The white car sighting was correct. The killers had already taken Z's blanket to wrap her in. They staged a cave and dragged the body, wrapped her in Z's blanket. They left out her license and left eaarrings to make it look like a robbery and had already removed her pants to make it look like a rape.

Complicated. Still believe it's Z and it was a photo shoot gone awry, but just putting this out there as a counter-theory

NO, that was from an earlier article from Feb 14. I was just trying to figure out where the murder occurred and how they used the luminol. I believe they probably sprayed it in various caves. Of course they wouldn't rule out animal blood. Once found, they probably tested the blood in that cave, and we know the brick was found in that cave and tested positive for her blood.

I won't use an old article again since it just brings back all the conspiracy theories. Actually I'll leave too until more information becomes available.

 

[Meri]

It looks like we have a bunch of our usual friends that have moved on from the case here. I just wanted to thank them and say that I will miss all their contributions here. :heartbeat:

 

[Rolandred]

I guess we will have to wait until more information is released to the public. The family has certainly been silent. I wonder if they are being informed or have been told to wait as well. I can't imagine they would be satisfied with the little information available about the murder of their loved one. Will this case just drop off into obscurity? And if so, why?