TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[oceanblueeyes]

They feared him. Why we absolutely need better mental health resources. If his parents had money but still couldn't get proper help for their son, who can?

I bet they were scared to death of him.

I did read an article this morning where his high school friends said he was on medication back then.

In the recent cases we have seen when young people murder the majority of them lived a catered to life while growing up and were seldom told 'no.'. These parents may have done so trying to have some semblance of peace since he seemed to be verbally abusive even in his teens.

They may have given into him instead of disciplining him when he needed it. It would give him a sense of entitlement thinking everyone should give into his demands.

JMO though

 

[rsd1200]

I think it will become known he was probably catered to and coddled by his family while growing up. I read that one of his high school friends said he was abusive to his parents.

This doesn't make a person do this thing. He knew right from wrong. He wanted to inflict his hate on someone. His mil's church seemed fitting, I guess. Can't destroy the world? Destroy what part of it you can.

 

[Elley Mae]

“His parents had him on high doses of ‘psych’ meds from 6th to 9th grade, the time I knew him,” said the student, who only wished to be identified as Reid.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooting-who-is-gunman-devin-patrick-kelley.html

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday said there was a connection between the "very deranged individual" and the church where the slayings took place, telling "FOX & Friends" that people will learn about a link.

"I don't think the church was just randomly attacked," he said. "I think there was a reason why the shooter chose this church."

The gunman was also denied a Texas gun permit, according to Abbott.

"He was rejected either because he did not fully answer all the questions that are required to get a Texas gun permit, or he answered those questions wrong, that we still don't know," he said.

 

[enelram]

from the presser:

he owned 4 guns, 2 bought in Texas, 2 bought when he lived in the trailer park in Colorado.
bought a gun per year from 2014-2017

from msm- a neighbor of parents said he lived in a barn apt. on parents property. I checked property records and the
annual property taxes were over $8,000 per yr. and assessed for taxes at $ 450,000 which could mean it's worth much more per market value.
He had worked as certified security guard at private water park nearby, which closed down for winter Nov. 1 but had a
limited schedule since Sept. So his job/income ran out and he would be unemployed for the winter.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

not necessarily. From working in mental health with kids and adults, (personal experience so no stats of course, nothing hard core as hard facts) this isn't the case. It's often said that people who do stuff like this are catered, coddled, not disciplined as kids, etc. The reality I've found is very different. Many display issues from a young age, and most do the best they can with what resources they have. Permissive parenting, from what I've seen, mostly hasn't been a part of it. Abusive parenting, yes. Even parents who are both as great as they can be can have someone like this in their home.

:goodpost:

Thank you for this. It is so common to assume in the immediate aftermath that faulty parenting is to blame when young adults go off the deep end...I wonder if that is a knee-jerk, protective reaction. So that people can perhaps find some semblance of psychological assurance that this sort of tragedy would never touch their lives, personally?

(Would also like to add that if a child has been medicated for psychological issues, the assumption should not necessarily be made that it is solely for the purpose of making the parents' lives easier. Parents of troubled teens already have a huge burden. Let's not throw them under the bus without knowing the facts.)

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I saw his "likes" on screengrabs early on. He had three atheist groups that were in there. As I stated earlier, this does not necessarily make him an atheist. I've got an atheist friend who follows a Catholic priest and a couple of other Christian sites (this person is not a troll either).

But we don't know those screen grabs are legit. Photoshop is easy. They photoshopped other things.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[BuTuCroquet?]

:goodpost:

Thank you for this. It is so common to assume in the immediate aftermath that faulty parenting is to blame when young adults go off the deep end...I wonder if that is a knee-jerk, protective reaction. So that people can perhaps find some semblance of psychological assurance that this sort of tragedy would never touch their lives, personally?

Exactly all of this. Thank you. ❤️


[emoji202]MOO

 

[rsd1200]

They feared him. Why we absolutely need better mental health resources. If his parents had money but still couldn't get proper help for their son, who can?

BBM
This! We don't know that it would have helped, or, if his parents would have even taken him (stigma), but, the Mental Health resources in this country are sorely lacking. There's hardly any support for parents, and the church organized activities, and groups, just can't take the place of a need for serious mental health help. The older the child gets, the harder it gets, to get them to go for treatment, too. After age 18? You are sunk.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This doesn't make a person do this thing. He knew right from wrong. He wanted to inflict his hate on someone. His mil's church seemed fitting, I guess. Can't destroy the world? Destroy what part of it you can.

I respectfully think it could. It makes the person feel entitled to do whatever they wish to do even lashing out at innocent others for the poor choices he and only he made.

 

[BuTuCroquet?]

“In prison, Bundy turned to alcohol, marijuana, and *advertiser censored*, clinging to psychoactive and other addictive vices when he could no longer kill.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefix.com/content/link-between-serial-killers-and-addicts?amp

True. But usually alcohol isn't the drug of choice of mass killers, at least not in my recollection.

jmo

[emoji202]MOO

 

[cady]

So assaulting your spouse and a child or children is not in the Military, the equivalent of a felony? But he did do 12 months in military confinement yet his behavior was "bad" as opposed to "dishonorable"?

 

[enelram]

:goodpost:

Thank you for this. It is so common to assume in the immediate aftermath that faulty parenting is to blame when young adults go off the deep end...I wonder if that is a knee-jerk, protective reaction. So that people can perhaps find some semblance of psychological assurance that this sort of tragedy would never touch their lives, personally?

(Would also like to add that if a child has been medicated for psychological issues, the assumption should not necessarily be made that it is solely for the purpose of making the parents' lives easier. Parents of troubled teens already have a huge burden. Let's not throw them under the bus without knowing the facts.)

And remember the studies done on violent young boys and men who had been prescribed anti-psychotic and behavioral drugs as adolescent?

Hope they do a post mortem on his brain. Unless he blew his brains out and his frontal lobes are destroyed.

 

[enelram]

I respectfully think it could. It makes the person feel entitled to do whatever they wish to do even lashing out at innocent others for the poor choices he and only he made.

Remember 'Affluenza Boy' ? Could be we have a young man who wasn't properly guided or disciplined as a child and
then got into drugs or alcohol as a teen and formed a sense of 'entitlement' because of his parents apparent wealth.

Anyone see what his father did for a living? His mother did work outside the home. And his sisters were both involved
with volunteer counseling of some sort.

 

[BuTuCroquet?]

“Federal law prohibits the purchase and possession of guns by anyone who is “an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.” But the statute ignores alcohol abuse. That is also a mistake. The evidence linking alcohol abuse and gun-related violence is compelling.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/violent-drunk-and-holding-a-gun.html


[emoji202]MOO

 

[rsd1200]

Then there's this:



So, the weak link was not with the licensing or permitting (which we can assume was of little concern to a mass-murderer), but with the purchasing (and faulty or non-existent background checks). The latter of which, unfortunately, will always be a problem with murderers who are intent on obtaining their weapons of choice. As noted upthread...the parts can be bought and assembled, guns can be bought illegally, etc., etc.

The only reason he'd need a license to conceal carry, from what I understand, of TX, is in case he decided to travel into a state with reciprocity, or was a seller. TX requires no permit to conceal carry nor to purchase a firearm. If there's any Texans out there, please correct me if I'm wrong.

That gun shop is probably going to have some explaining to do.

That should have disqualified him from buying a gun, morning news pundits said, being the military equivalent of a felony. The gunman bought that particular weapon last year at a gun store in the San Antonio area, according to local authorities updating the press.

https://deadline.com/2017/11/texas-...in-law-before-massacre-church-1202202648/amp/

 

[enelram]

:goodpost:

Thank you for this. It is so common to assume in the immediate aftermath that faulty parenting is to blame when young adults go off the deep end...I wonder if that is a knee-jerk, protective reaction. So that people can perhaps find some semblance of psychological assurance that this sort of tragedy would never touch their lives, personally?

(Would also like to add that if a child has been medicated for psychological issues, the assumption should not necessarily be made that it is solely for the purpose of making the parents' lives easier. Parents of troubled teens already have a huge burden. Let's not throw them under the bus without knowing the facts.)

You'd be surprised at how many youngsters get medicated because their teachers at school suggest they be tested
for misbehaving at school. So often it begins with the schools and it 'could' be to make the teacher's job easier.

But, by the time the child is acting out at school, the parent is playing catch-up for many years of ignoring the problems at home. IMO, most behavior problems begin at home. And IMO, the parents are most times responsible whether
it comes out or they deny it. Could be negligent parents, abusive parents, hyper-religious parents and many more causes. But I firmly believe it starts in the home.

 

[CARIIS]

It is def a deeply religious area -- there all lots of interviews with like the devil, and evil and jesus and praying and stuff

def has a little ole town feel to it.

moo

 

[Inthedetails]

Texas resort manager: Church gunman was security guard
Nomaan Merchant and Paul J. Weber, Associated Press

New Braunfels, Texas — The gunman who opened fire on a Texas church recently began working as a security guard at a vacation resort near his home outside of San Antonio, a manager at the resort said Monday.

Claudia Varjabedian told The Associated Press that Devin Kelley had been working at Summit Vacation Resort in New Braunfels for the past month and a half and “seemed like a nice guy.” She said he worked unarmed on his shift as the day security guard and didn’t give her any problems.

“He seemed like a nice guy. I had no complaints. I was as shocked as anyone else,” said Varjabedian.
The riverside resort in the Texas Hill Country is near Kelley’s apparent home off a rural highway in New Braunfels, Texas, about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2017/11/06/church-shooting-texas-gunman/107401862/

So, he had a job.

Comes from what seems like a decent family, is married to what seems like a nice person, is a father, has a place to live, was employed.

And then went off the deep end.

Still missing info here....

jmo

 

[Tbone144]

The only reason he'd need a license to conceal carry, from what I understand, of TX, is in case he decided to travel into a state with reciprocity, or was a seller. TX requires no permit to conceal carry nor to purchase a firearm. If there's any Texans out there, please correct me if I'm wrong.

That gun shop is probably going to have some explaining to do.

https://deadline.com/2017/11/texas-...in-law-before-massacre-church-1202202648/amp/

You need a license to carry a concealed handgun or open carry a handgun in TX. The process is very thorough. You get complete fingerprints taken, and you go through an extensive background check that takes weeks. They want to know where you have lived for last 7 years, where you are employed, where you were born, any and all alias used. Heshould also have known from the required training class that if you have ever been convicted of domestic assault you will not get a concealed. Wonder if he thought he was above it or they wouldn’t check him completely. Also if you are not paying your child support you will not get a license.
There is a big list of reasons you can and will be denied.
Castle doctrine allows you to carry in your vehicle and have a gun in your home. The background check is much different to own a gun than to carry a handgun.


Texas is open carry without a license for long guns. Where these modified short barrel rifles fall in that category I don’t know.

 

[Inthedetails]

“His parents had him on high doses of ‘psych’ meds from 6th to 9th grade, the time I knew him,” said the student, who only wished to be identified as Reid.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooting-who-is-gunman-devin-patrick-kelley.html

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday said there was a connection between the "very deranged individual" and the church where the slayings took place, telling "FOX & Friends" that people will learn about a link.

"I don't think the church was just randomly attacked," he said. "I think there was a reason why the shooter chose this church."

The gunman was also denied a Texas gun permit, according to Abbott.

"He was rejected either because he did not fully answer all the questions that are required to get a Texas gun permit, or he answered those questions wrong, that we still don't know," he said.

BBM

Here we go. This is the "missing info" some of us expected.

A common thread in many of these mass shootings is psych drugs. I'm NOT saying psych drugs are the cause of all evil, so please don't put that statement into my mouth.

What I am saying is that we have a mental health issue in this culture. People can go around and around about guns, but that just avoids addressing the mental health crisis we have.

Just my opinion.