TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[oceanblueeyes]

During the PC what broke my heart the most is when LE said an 18 month old child was among those he murdered. How in the world could anyone take out their hateful rage out on someone so tiny and innocent?

Imo, he may have pretended to be religious at one time trying to fit in since countless people in this area are very religious. But I don't believe for one second he had God's love in his heart and he hadn't for years.....if ever. He had been a violent abuser for years and even his high school friends said he verbally abused his own parents. They have probably gone through abusive hell trying to raise this monster.

I think he has been evil for a very long time.

IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Law enforcement said the 26-year-old called his father during the pursuit to tell him he had been shot and thought he was going to die. There is evidence Kelley died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/s...omestic-situation-with-family/article/2639750

 

[x_files]

I think it will become known he was probably catered to and coddled by his family while growing up. I read that one of his high school friends said he was abusive to his parents.

They feared him. Why we absolutely need better mental health resources. If his parents had money but still couldn't get proper help for their son, who can?

 

[rsd1200]

[video=twitter;927576361052659712]https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/927576361052659712[/video]
BREAKING: Texas church pastor and wife speak

:tears:

 

[Elley Mae]

Snipped

The gunman had dropped his rifle in the church after slaughtering the parishioners; he pulled a pistol during his exchange with the bystander.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

Snipped

After the armed bystander explained the situation, the two took off after the gunman. “He got a little bit of a jump on us. We were doing about 95” — miles per hour — “around traffic and everything. Eventually he came to a slowdown and we got within just a few feet of him and he got off the road.”

Mr. Langendorff said that the gunman lost control of his vehicle. Langendorff parked and the armed bystander drew his rifle, which he kept trained on the gunman’s vehicle until police officers arrived on the scene about five minutes later, he said. The two men had been on the phone with police dispatch during the chase.

The in-laws and Mr. Kelley’s ex-wife were interviewed by investigators last night in Sutherland Springs. They were not in the town at the time of the shooting, according to law enforcement officials.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

2 points from presser:
there is video from inside the church but LE is not releasing at this time.
LE has contacted military officials at Pentagon for detailed info on perps discharge and whether or not his gun application should have been flagged or denied.
MOO- there will be a whole lotta flack regarding whether or not he should have been able to legally buy a weapon.

@CBSNews
3 firearms recovered; suspect did not have a license to carry.

Then there's this:

"The shooter did not have a license to carry weapons, but did pass background checks to purchase his guns, as well as obtain a private security license which would have enabled him to work as a private security guard."

http://deadline.com/2017/11/texas-s...in-law-before-massacre-church-1202202648/amp/

So, the weak link was not with the licensing or permitting (which we can assume was of little concern to a mass-murderer), but with the purchasing (and faulty or non-existent background checks). The latter of which, unfortunately, will always be a problem with murderers who are intent on obtaining their weapons of choice. As noted upthread...the parts can be bought and assembled, guns can be bought illegally, etc., etc.

 

[thefragile7393]

I think it will become known he was probably catered to and coddled by his family while growing up. I read that one of his high school friends said he was abusive to his parents.

not necessarily. From working in mental health with kids and adults, (personal experience so no stats of course, nothing hard core as hard facts) this isn't the case. It's often said that people who do stuff like this are catered, coddled, not disciplined as kids, etc. The reality I've found is very different. Many display issues from a young age, and most do the best they can with what resources they have. Permissive parenting, from what I've seen, mostly hasn't been a part of it. Abusive parenting, yes. Even parents who are both as great as they can be can have someone like this in their home.

 

[neesaki]

I wonder why he wasn't dishonorably discharged, with that he would not have legally been able to purchase firearms. Does anyone know what it takes to get a dishonorable discharge versus the bad conduct discharge? TIA

DK

"was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts alleging assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Ann Stefanek, the chief of Media Operations for the Air Force, said in a statement.
Kelley was convicted and sentenced to 12 months in custody and given a bad conduct discharge, Stefanek said. He was discharged in 2014."

http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...s-shooter-was-court-1509937194-htmlstory.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That's true. And people pray out loud and silently in schools daily. Forcing people to pray with a daily, principal or teacher-led prayer doesn't stop this.

I bet we find he came from a family that believes in God and went to church. This is not about religion except that it can show how a church community can love one another "directly" as the pastor's wife described, how they can support one another and be supported throughout this horror.

I have always admired the strength and fortitude Christians display when something like this happens in their church. They are always unbelievably strong even in the worst of times. They totally rely on their undying religious faith to get them through any tragedy no matter how great.

The Pastor and his wife are amazing and all of those that are church members of his church. They do not ever blame God for they know God gives everyone free will and its all about the individual choices each person makes in life...good or horrifically bad choices like this murderer made. He chose evil over goodness and YES he had a choice.

Instead of letting something like this make them weaker it only makes them stronger than before and all of them lean on their faith in God to get them through anything even something as tragic as this.

I have seen this happen in other tragedies where the families left behind were strong believers in God. The strength and courage shown by so many has been a blessing to see.

God bless them all.

 

[Elley Mae]

So, the weak link was not with the licensing or permitting (which we can assume was of little concern to a mass-murderer), but with the purchasing. Which, unfortunately, will always be a problem with murderers who are intent on obtaining their weapons of choice. As noted upthread...the parts can be bought and assembled, guns can be bought illegally, etc., etc.:

I am seeing that it was a “bad conduct” not a “dishonorable discharge”. Wonder if there is a difference.

He had served in the Air Force at a base in New Mexico but was court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. He was sentenced to 12 months’ confinement and received a “bad conduct” discharge in 2014, according to Ann Stefanek, the chief of Air Force media operations.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

 

[rsd1200]

and then there is the internet

high schools

the streets

craigslist

theft

gun store break in

taking from neighbor

in us of a

someone wants a gun they are getting a gun no matter what statue FD-4574 C says

moo

Or they just get a couple of plastic ones, and drive a truck down a bike path...

 

[enelram]

I think it will become known he was probably catered to and coddled by his family while growing up. I read that one of his high school friends said he was abusive to his parents.

A high school acquaintance described him during their school years as "Odd".

 

[MsFacetious]

The in-laws and his ex wife were out of town.... what about his current wife and kids?
I swear this is not a difficult question to ask!

 

[gitana1]

I doubt any country outside of places like Yemen or Afghanistan has a gun culture like the US has.

That's the difference. It's about gun culture.

Well that's true. My BA is in American Studies and with that I learned a lot that explains our gun culture. Guns are in our collective consciousness. In the DNA of every second generation American and beyond.

We have a western mythology that views guns as symbolic of many characteristics and ideologies we tend to value in this country- freedom, personal responsibility, protecting one's family, individualism, manifest destiny, strength, independence, ruggedness, the frontier, protecting the weak, avenging the oppressed, overcoming tyranny, etc.

I mean it goes back to the founding of the nation. And goes forward 125 years through the westward expansion.

We are not Canada or Sweden. We have a very different ethos and a different national mythology. Do we have a problem with gun culture? I think we do. But because we aren't like those other nations, because our history is so different, I don't believe we can approach guns the same way as these other nations do.

The divide doesn't narrow by pounding one's opinion into the ears of the other, over and over. That hasn't worked yet and it won't work now. A conversation would be good. But an honest one that doesn't shut down the reality of who we are, like it or not. We need to respect each other's opinions and try to understand where everyone is coming from rather than becoming entrenched and angry.

Ultimately, that approach hasn't worked and won't fix anything.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Texas resort manager: Church gunman was security guard
Nomaan Merchant and Paul J. Weber, Associated Press

New Braunfels, Texas — The gunman who opened fire on a Texas church recently began working as a security guard at a vacation resort near his home outside of San Antonio, a manager at the resort said Monday.

Claudia Varjabedian told The Associated Press that Devin Kelley had been working at Summit Vacation Resort in New Braunfels for the past month and a half and “seemed like a nice guy.” She said he worked unarmed on his shift as the day security guard and didn’t give her any problems.

“He seemed like a nice guy. I had no complaints. I was as shocked as anyone else,” said Varjabedian.
The riverside resort in the Texas Hill Country is near Kelley’s apparent home off a rural highway in New Braunfels, Texas, about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2017/11/06/church-shooting-texas-gunman/107401862/

 

[rsd1200]

We don't know who the MIL is do we?
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

At an afternoon press conference, police revealed that Kelley had 'expressed anger towards his mother-in-law' MS, who attended the church, and sent her 'threatening texts'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5054531/Shooter-targeted-church-ex-s-laws-worshiped.html

 

[gitana1]

I am seeing that it was a “bad conduct” not a “dishonorable discharge”. Wonder if there is a difference.

He had served in the Air Force at a base in New Mexico but was court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. He was sentenced to 12 months’ confinement and received a “bad conduct” discharge in 2014, according to Ann Stefanek, the chief of Air Force media operations.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

Yes. And those with bad conduct discharges, which is not as severe as dishonorable, can still have guns. However, his particular offense involved domestic violence which means despite his discharge status he could not possess guns legally.

https://themilitarywallet.com/types-of-military-discharges/

 

[MsFacetious]

New Braunfels is where Joshua Davis disappeared. No connection, just made me think of him.
That case haunts me... .

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...els-4-Feb-2011-6/page3&highlight=joshua+davis

 

[gitana1]

along with that kinda thing goes a stigma that those suffering with mental illness are violent-- which is not the reality

We need old days public service announcements educating the public about behaviors that are more likely to indicate potential problmes

will never happen tho money

back in the old days networks were required by law to air a certain percentage of public service ads ( the eggs your brains on drugs seatbelts smoking etc were all via that law

back then the public airwaves were well public they belonged to us

Ot same as with politics if ABC gave politician X 4 min they had to give the opposing politician 4 min of airtime the good ole days .......

There are tens of thousands of eccentric, disgruntled or rage-filled loners into guns and violence in our nation. Almost none of them do this.

There is no PSA that would stop this.

 

[bluesneakers]

I saw his "likes" on screengrabs early on. He had three atheist groups that were in there. As I stated earlier, this does not necessarily make him an atheist. I've got an atheist friend who follows a Catholic priest and a couple of other Christian sites (this person is not a troll either).

OT: Father James Martin, SJ?