TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[Doghairrules]

From WaPo:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h-shooting-as-the-grieving-spans-generations/


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[Cryptic]

I'm not sure how much more clear the link can be:

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a 26-year-old gunman entered a rural Texaschurch with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.
In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.
“He assaulted his stepson severely enough that he fractured his skull, and he also assaulted his wife,” said Don Christensen, a retired colonel who was the chief prosecutor for the Air Force. “He pled to intentionally doing it.”
He was sentenced in November of that year to 12 months’ confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank. After his confinement, he was discharged from the military with a bad conduct discharge. It is unclear whether his conviction would have barred him from purchasing a gun.

Pretty familiar. In a case I had the opposing party was charged, convicted and sentenced. I'm aware of some of the terminology. There is nothing to suggest this was administrative.

Note the part in red. This might imply that the conviction was administrative, not judicial.

Also note this syntax:"He pled to intentionally doing it.” This may also indicate an administrative "admission of the facts", but not a formal conviction ie- "pled guilty".

DK may well have a formal criminal conviction. Before being definitve, it might be best to wait for the military to give a statement. Sometimes reporters don't differentiate between administrative and judicial aspects of court martials. Then factor in that the same defendant can have both administrative and judicial elements in his case.

Then again, he may have a formal conviction. One thing that could point to that is the year in confinement- a long time for an administrative punishment.

 

[Doghairrules]

I had seen that...
It appears the MIL and the wife's sister are safe. I guess we just assume the wife and kids are too?

Isn’t it odd that no one seems to have come out and said that, though?


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[Stunned]

And yet nations with similar cultures to ours don't have these issues. And if we take the population argument, fine. Combine the populations of Canada, Australia and New Zealand for example. Still don't have the level of mass murders that we do. Not close.

Take all of Western Europe together. Same thing. They deal with straight up terror but still nothing to our levels of frequency.

Lack of God and prayer in school didn't cause this. And we still have right and wrong in this nation. Everyone knows it's wrong to do this. Everyone knows it's wrong to hurt children or kill innocents.

This freak didn't massacre a bunch of people because we allow gay marriage. He did it because he is a sociopathic empty vessel inspired by similar massacres.

Exactly! Sick of this behavior being associated with lack of God or Godlessness in this country! They are terrorists, Simple as that.

 

[TTF14]

Wonder what he was trolling the community about on Facebook?

 

[x_files]

(Trust me, the FBI CounterTerrorism Task Force would be veeeeryyy interested in this guy...guns, gear and "Prepared for ISIS"...)

I've reported him multiple times. I had to block him on FB. FB didn't take any threats seriously. He is a self proclaimed Nazi and wants genocide/WWIII/Civil War to start.
He has all the RED FLAGs. Unemployed, violent, record, mentally unstable, threatens others. nada. still allowed to threaten people on FB.

 

[enelram]

I read that his parent's home was on 28 acres, so it wouldn't be unusual that their neighbors didn't know them.
It would also be convenient for him to target practice with his guns out there.

 

[Inthedetails]

Isn’t it odd that no one seems to have come out and said that, though?


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Yes!

.

 

[rsd1200]

IMHO, if you still love this challenging child and are doing all that, in your power, you can, you haven't 'failed' as a parent.

Thank you, and I do. I appreciate your kind words, but, it sure feels like failure, or more-so that I failed my child. I can't imagine being in PK's parent's shoes today. Their world will never be right again either. They'll likely wrack their brains forever. He took part of their lives away too.

 

[Inthedetails]

Thank you, and I do. I appreciate your kind words, but, it sure feels like failure, or more-so that I failed my child. I can't imagine being in PK's parent's shoes today. Their world will never be right again either. They'll likely wrack their brains forever.

I feel for his parents too. I hope they have a strong support system. He destroyed them....though, with time, they will heal.

jmo

 

[gitana1]

We see a pattern of behaviour though. It increases a little over time. No, I don't think it's a "domestic situation" but I do think that this time, he became so enraged that he wanted to destroy something that may have had meaning to his mil. How do you think she's feeling right now? I'd be second guessing myself all over the place. I'd even probably have some survivor's guilt going on if my sil shot up a church I attended after having it out with me in a text rant. I'd figure he'd thought I'd be there. I feel for her, and his, families, too, in addition to the entire little town. Everyone had to nearly know everyone.

Devastation. This poor woman is facing devastation.

 

[x_files]

The picture I'm getting is different. He was a troubled child, possibly had behavioral issues and a suspected chemical imbalance so was medicated by 6th grade. Possible that the military, as has happened with others for years, was considered his last chance to get his behavior and life under control. But it didn't work. From at least the age of 18 he had a tendency to stalk the girls who broke up with him. Plus, he had no problem dating a 13 year old when he was 18. Marries, beats up wife and her child. At some point also gets charged with animal cruelty. Dates some more, stalks some more, scares women, remarries, and that goes south. Spent a year locked up. This wasn't a sudden snap. Looks like he's been headed down this road nearly his whole life.

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and what's the solution? How we can prevent the next mass shooting? mental health care is not easy to obtain.

 

[gitana1]

I hate to say it, as it does not apply to all security guards of course, but commonly imo some of these nut jobs become security guards because they can't become cops. And they want the power/sense of authority, etc that cops have.

Haven't we seen another murderer recently who was also a security guard?

 

[gitana1]

Note the part in red. This might imply that the conviction was administrative, not judicial.

DK may well have a formal criminal conviction. Before definitively saying he does have one, it might be best to wait for a primary source (the military) to give a statement. This is doubly so when the same defendant can have both administrative and judicial elements in his case.

It may be unclear to the authors. It's not unclear to me. Convictions for domestic violence-related crimes bar people from even possessing a firearm. That's federal law. http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/domestic-violence-firearms/

 

[rsd1200]

As a person who was a college student at rhe time of the Vietnam war, I kknow many vets. The statement is BS re being maladjusted. Some are I am sure. But no way can humans deal with carnage and ve all,right, After WW2,the people came home with shell shock. Some took to the bottle and became functional alcoholics.

Not to offend anyone, and hope it isn't against TOS. This explains it best, IMHO.

George Carlin on PTSD
[video=youtube;hSp8IyaKCs0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0[/video]

 

[x_files]

Texas shooter broke his infant stepson's skull: Gunman's violent past revealed as it emerges he sent 'threatening texts' to his mother-in-law and trolled townspeople on Facebook before church massacre

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5054531/Shooter-targeted-church-ex-s-laws-worshiped.html

wow...that's insane.

 

[gitana1]

I've reported him multiple times. I had to block him on FB. FB didn't take any threats seriously. He is a self proclaimed Nazi and wants genocide/WWIII/Civil War to start.
He has all the RED FLAGs. Unemployed, violent, record, mentally unstable, threatens others. nada. still allowed to threaten people on FB.

Whoa. Maybe you should try again. This time with an email stating, "All the red flags are there. This guy is a ticking time bomb. If the authorities don't deal with him there will be blame to go around if he commits an atrocity."

 

[x_files]

Whoa. Maybe you should try again. This time with an email stating, "All the red flags are there. This guy is a ticking time bomb. If the authorities don't deal with him there will be blame to go around if he commits an atrocity."

LE said they'd watch him, not to get involved. I honestly think there's way too many crazies for them to monitor!

 

[Bernina]

As a person who was a college student at rhe time of the Vietnam war, I kknow many vets. The statement is BS re being maladjusted. Some are I am sure. But no way can humans deal with carnage and ve all,right, After WW2,the people came home with shell shock. Some took to the bottle and became functional alcoholics.

Ehhhhh........I have had 3 ex BF/DHs that were Nam vets. People who were on the edge of bipolar, schizophrenia, or other mental illnesses that don't really show up til late teens, early 20's, were traumatized into full blown mental disorders. Self medicating while in the war zone "masked" many of the symptoms, while others became "war dogs".

Now, you have a small proportion of maladjusts that sign up because they don't fit in society, but it's not the norm. Nam was the "draft".

 

[rsd1200]

One thing we know, and that the FBI has known since the 70s, is that animal abuse correlates with violence against humans. This is why, in a more perfect world, Humane workers and social workers would be cross-trained to look for both and we'd have a better reporting/database situation.

(They are working on this now with an animal abuse database through the FBI. However, I believe they only track felony abuse, and most states do not prosecute some pretty serious animal abuse as felony. For instance, in Kentucky it's only felony animal abuse if it's torture. And it's always hard to prosecute animal abuse. Plus, abusing horses and other animals considered livestock are not covered by most abuse laws, but it doesn't make those people any less dangerous.)

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OT
It is getting better in Ky., at least where I live. We have a good Humane Shelter and diligent workers. One thing I'd like to see is banning of stacks and chains, soring, gingering, and tail-breaking, on our Tenn. Walking Horses, but our high up elected officials can't have that.