TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

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I think it goes back to the coward angle.

He'd already put his in-laws on notice with his threats. Most rural people can handle a gun, male and female. I don't think he could be successful.

Re: the crying children. He'd already hurt one child. I wonder if crying was a particular trigger to him ~ the kind of person who thinks 'why is that whiner torturing me' instead of what is the matter with the baby. Completely selfish, unable to look outward.

Yes, no empathy whatsoever. As others have said, it'd be no surprise to me if DK also had addictions to alcohol or illegal drugs, often how cowards get what they perceive to be courage.

However that utter rage, it seems as if his actions were directed toward the church and all that it represented, whether his in laws were there or not. I'm not wanting to start a religious debate, but I wonder if the couple has received marriage counselling from the church. If so, would it be suggested that a severely mentally ill spouse with a preponderance for anger and violence seek outside treatment or might it be believed that praying and faith would rid him of the devil's or demonic influence.

I don't know the answer but the black attire and skull mask worn by DK suggests he may have deliberately intended to portray a character that personified evil and death, particularly symbolic considering it was people in a church during their worship services that he so viciously targeted.

JMO
 
Dear Sheriff Lombardo

You are mandated to watch this presser. In it you learn how to do one

That was a presser.

Kind comparing informative authentic

My goodness there was a drone shot -- I remain adamant in my notions regarding religiosity as it relates to the tragedy!

He sprayed I mean sprayed the exterior of the place. It took my breath away--IMO that is about something--raging at grass in front of a small chapel has to have meaning.

You tell by the bullet markers the intensity of the firing- I visualized a completely out of control person just flailing his machine gun around wildly.

His descriptors of his behaviors inside the chapel are similar --he. was.out.of.control. IMO

Omar in Pulse did the same thing -- reshooting people already hit. He dug through piles of bodies to shoot some again.

I never knew there a bunch of cell phones sitting at the FBI labs that they cant get into MSNBC

Anyone can get into our nuclear power plants but cell phones seem to be a problem -- boy something is backwards around this place !!

I found it interesting that they hesitated about number of shots of fired. I do often get confused when some info is held tight when the perp is dead .

In this instance what the conflict themes were.

I think the media is running with the no religion angle IMO incorrectly. LE is doing it from IMO a legal definition of hate crime/terror related.

That definition IMO does not rule out delusional .


A religious delusion is any delusion involving religious themes or subject matter.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] Though a small minority of psychologists have characterized all or nearly all religion as delusion,[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]others focus solely on a denial of any spiritual cause of symptoms exhibited by a patient and look for other answers relating to a chemical imbalance in the brain, although there is actually no evidence of pathology in any psychiatric illness[SUP][disputed – discuss][/SUP] which means a diagnosis is made purely on opinions of professionals based on symptoms the person exhibits.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP][SUP][disputed – discuss]

[/SUP]
In contemporary times persons judged to have experienced auditory hallucination include those who hearing voices instructing or motivating them to commit violent acts. These auditory experiences are classified by psychiatry as command hallucination.[SUP][29][/SUP] Persons acting to commit murder are reported as hearing voices of religious beings such as God,[SUP][30][/SUP][SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][32][/SUP][SUP][33][/SUP][SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP][SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP]angels,[SUP][38][/SUP] or the Devil.[SUP][39]

A study found adherents to new religious movements to have similar delusionary cognition, as rated by the Delusions Inventory, to a psychotic group,

[/SUP]Individuals experiencing religious delusions are preoccupied with religious subjects that are not within the expected beliefs for an individual's background, including culture, education, and known experiences of religion. These preoccupations are incongruous with the mood of the subject.

[FONT=&quot]For many people religion is one way that we understand the world and give meaning to our lives and certainly religion and spirituality play an important part in many people’s experiences of schizophrenia. For some sufferers religious delusions or intense religiously-based irrational thinking may be a component of their symptoms, for instance they may believe that they have been sent by God to become a great prophet.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]eligious delusions manifest themselves in many people suffering from the effects of psychotic thinking

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]delusions suffered by people with schizophrenia often have a religious content.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sometimes the person may believe that they are being punished for some unforgivable sin that they have committed earlier in their life or that they are damned to everlasting hell.[/FONT][SUP]2[/SUP][FONT=&quot] This can lead to feelings of intense despondency.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]n other cases the sufferer may believe that others around them are devils or witches and may attack them or that they themselves are possessed by devils.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] prevalence of religious delusions in schizophrenia is very high.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]it is clearly a trait that is very common in schizophrenia and psychiatrists encounter it so frequently that they have come up with a name for it: religiosity or religious preoccupation. Religiosity is definitely not new.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Religious delusions may be difficult to distinguish and diagnosis often depends on a complete knowledge of the person’s previous religious history. For instance if the sufferer has never had a religious background but has suddenly started visiting churches three times a day this would be significant whereas if a life long Jehovahs Witness expressed beliefs about the imminent end of the world this would not be, as all Jehovahs have this belief.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Excessive religious observance is often the first sign that relatives see that something is amiss. Visiting churches too frequently, praying continuously

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Some studies have found that sufferers who experience religious delusions tend to experience a more severe course of their illness with a poorer prognosis.[/FONT][SUP]8[/SUP][FONT=&quot] In addition religious delusions and hallucinations can give rise to disturbed behaviour that can sometimes be dangerous to both the sufferer and to those around them.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Religious delusions and hallucinations often link together and can be very powerful in the way they influence the person’s behaviour. After all if you believe that the voices that you are hearing in your head and which are giving you commands are coming from God or some other higher power then there is a powerful reason to listen to them and obey them

[/FONT]
https://www.livingwithschizophreniauk.org/religious-spiritual-delusions-schizophrenia/[SUP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_delusion#Auditory_hallucination_and_crime

ugh oh MSNBC the phones apparently get to a point to where you can just not get in peroid.

Its like if wrong password is entered too many times the phone says see ya forever??


[/SUP]Delusional ideation in religious and psychoticpopulations

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.e...=Delusional_ideation_in_religious_and_psy.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/30/4/1005/1930847

[SUP]moo



[/SUP]
 
Does anyone know if DK and first and/or second wife were married in that church?
 
LE won't discuss motive. Still unclear.


"Authorities also said Monday that some of Kelley’s relatives attended the Sutherland Springs church. Among them was his mother-in-law, to whom police said he had sent “threatening texts.”

That did not necessarily constitute a motive for the attack, they said. “There are many ways that he could have taken care of the mother-in-law without coming with 15 loaded magazines and an assault rifle to a church,” Freeman Martin of the Texas Department of Public Safety said at a news conference. “I think he came here with a purpose and a mission.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...mepage/story&tid=a_inl&utm_term=.518b0492c77a
 
Its a great idea but its highly unlikely it would be done in a way that respect's a person's dignity, rights and autonomy..
It could as easily be done by kindly folks, because they actually care about what happens to the damaged human as opposed to protecting others from them.

Dear Kittythehare,

The answer is in your message.

People need to report their loved ones, neighbours or friends - acquaintances - anyone who we feel has the potential to commit these heinous crimes.

Although it will be painful and perhaps embarrassing to report people we know but we need to consider the alternative. The alternative will always be hearing after one of these horrendous acts that there were red flags. I shudder when I read about neighbours who later speak to reporters about things they thought were suspicious but thought they were "none of their business".

No more "none of our business". Neighbours and friends are speaking out about child abuse. It's time to speak out about anything that makes us suspicious.

We will only be protecting others when we do this.

The reporting systems are in place. We, as the public, need to start using them.

This is only my opinion.
 
I just listened to an NPR report about why the shooter was denied a concealed carry permit while passing the check to buy guns. The reporter said that the concealed carry check was much more extensive. Why can’t we have those kinds of checks for any weapon that’s not for hunting/recreational use? Why can’t we license gun owners the way we do drivers?

Finally, if a person already owns weapons when they are convicted of something that would prohibit weapons, are their weapons confiscated? If so, are they confiscated and held between arrest and conviction? I’m thinking specifically of DV situations.

Thanks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CNN just teased: Pastor knew shooter and wanted him out of church.
 
Does anyone know if DK and first and/or second wife were married in that church?

I don't know that any details have been released about the first wedding.

But according to Heavy she was a "teacher for toddlers" at the church from 2009-2013 prior to the marriage in 2014. Considering the strong family connection and the fact it's a very common tradition for the bride and her family to organize the wedding arrangements, I'd be highly probable the wedding was also held there.

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/danielle-shields-kelley-devin-wife-children-facebook-photos/
 
Does anyone know if DK and first and/or second wife were married in that church?

Dear BetteDavisEyes,

Excellent question! (as usual)

I have been wondering whether he knew that at one time members of the church "shielded" his ex-wife from him. In other words, did they perhaps know where she was living but didn't disclose it to him?

This seems like such a "personal" attack. Shooting at babies and children is unfathomable to us. But to him did he consider that they were all "against him"?

Just thinking out loud.

Also, has it been reported that his current wife even knew about him (the monster) fracturing the skull of an infant? Was that hidden from his family members?
 
Any news about his current, though estranged, wife and kids???

I just want one word that they are safe. Wish LE would just say and put that lingering concern to rest.

Or did I miss mention of them??

jmo
 
CNN
He escaped a mental heath facility
 
CNN
Made threats against military chain of command
 
Re: denial of concealed carry permit. Not sure about Texas, but in Louisiana you are required to attend classes as part of the qualification for that type of permit.
 
Sociopath, psychopath, deviant, Devil’s Reject. That is what he is or was.
 
This "monster" had so many "red flags" over the years.


According to this article (below):

"Two ex-girlfriends told NBC News that Kelley stalked them after breakups."

"Years after dating me he would try to bribe me to hang out with him," Landry, who met Kelley in church as a teenager, told NBC News in a Facebook message. "He ended up assaulting me. He would stalk me by repeatedly calling me — even prank calling me, saying really weird stuff."

"That was another thing about him — he was very sick in the head...He would tell me very sick strange things," she said, without providing details.
 

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