TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[CARIIS]

Dear Kittythehare,

The answer is in your message.

People need to report their loved ones, neighbours or friends - acquaintances - anyone who we feel has the potential to commit these heinous crimes.

Although it will be painful and perhaps embarrassing to report people we know but we need to consider the alternative. The alternative will always be hearing after one of these horrendous acts that there were red flags. I shudder when I read about neighbours who later speak to reporters about things they thought were suspicious but thought they were "none of their business".

No more "none of our business". Neighbours and friends are speaking out about child abuse. It's time to speak out about anything that makes us suspicious.

We will only be protecting others when we do this.

The reporting systems are in place. We, as the public, need to start using them.

This is only my opinion.

This is a very complicated issue . But if the word reported was replaced with the beleif system that needs help is placed in the whole thing changes

but ///////// not really cause then we are back to money and beds

which is another whole mess

moo

 

[canadiangirl]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...th-facility-months-after-attack-on-wife-child
Sutherland Springs church shooter escaped mental health facility months after attack on wife, child

I behind here, he escaped and was living with his parents?

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[MistyWaters]

I behind here, he escaped and was living with his parents?

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No, he was picked up at bus stop and was either turned over to New Mexico police and/or was returned to the mental hospital, depending on which report you choose to read. Then in 2012, a few months later he was sentenced for the assaults on 1st wife and stepson.

 

[Bravo]

So how much did the pastor know? Because aren't we all "God's children" if he is preaching Christianity?
I don't really understand why a Pastor would actively want to run someone out of their congregation. They are supposed to be there to help. MOO

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Pastor may know much more. Given his past. Perhaps he tried to help to no avail. He may have been at the point of wanting his congregation comfortable and safe. Sadly safe they were not.

 

[LietKynes]

Pastor may know much more. Given his past. Perhaps he tried to help to no avail. He may have been at the point of wanting his congregation comfortable and safe. Sadly safe they were not.

RSBM

Agreed !
You can only help a person so much.....
DK sounded like he was on a course to destruction and people feared him-- with good cause !!
:moo:

 

[cujenn81]

From the same link:

"“I thought it was the police when he went inside because everyone got real quiet,” Solis told KSAT. “Everyone was saying ‘Be quiet. It's him. It's him.’”"

Very telling.....

WOW! I read this article earlier but didn't catch the significance of what they were saying until now. So, the church members must have known this guy and knew he was dangerous. They must have been terrified. [emoji22]

ETA: Never mind me. I now see the following posts clarifying that they likely meant "it's the shooter from outside" as opposed to the police.

 

[pamelado2]

WOW! I read this article earlier but catch the significance of what they were saying until now. So, the church members must have known this guy and knew he was dangerous. They must have been terrified. [emoji22]

He had a mask on. They said that because he started shooting outside the church. According to the sheriff's interview he went around the church shooting into it. Then he walked in and they realized it was the shooter and not police. And he continued to shoot.

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[Deleted member 158085]

So how much did the pastor know? Because aren't we all "God's children" if he is preaching Christianity?
I don't really understand why a Pastor would actively want to run someone out of their congregation. They are supposed to be there to help. MOO

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Maybe to protect his congregation.

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[cujenn81]

The witness informed officers that Kelley “was a danger to himself and others as he had already been caught sneaking firearms onto Holloman Air Force base,” located approximately 100 miles from the bus terminal. The report further states that Kelley “was attempting to carry out death threats” he had made on his military superiors

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...th-facility-months-after-attack-on-wife-child

This is banana cakes!!!

 

[Doghairrules]

So how much did the pastor know? Because aren't we all "God's children" if he is preaching Christianity?
I don't really understand why a Pastor would actively want to run someone out of their congregation. They are supposed to be there to help. MOO

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As the daughter and sister of pastors, I completely understand this. I imagine he was making threats or behaving in threatening ways. Churches are generally not equipped to deal with this level of psycho. Moo


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[ATasteOfHoney]

Pastor may know much more. Given his past. Perhaps he tried to help to no avail. He may have been at the point of wanting his congregation comfortable and safe. Sadly safe they were not.

Plus there were many other people along the way that should’ve intervened with this madman. I don’t think the burden of societal safety should’ve fallen on the pastor of this small church.

Numerous agencies before have dropped the ball repeatedly. And they didn’t do their job or follow standard procedures.

It’s really infuriating....

 

[cujenn81]

The trouble is, restraining orders are worthless if a person is determined to harm you. Sometimes they escalate the problem.

Everyone should read “The Gift Of Fear” by Gavin deBecker, which explains these issues in detail.



The thing is, everyone has a right to remain silent. No one HAS to talk to LE. That’s a protection for all of us, even though it allows someone like your neighbor to avoid arrest. Anyone should think twice if they think they want to give up that right in order to solve crimes. It’s a delicate balance.
JMO

YES, YES, YES! I second this. "The Gift of Fear" is probably the most important book I've ever read.

 

[HMSHood]

'He had a Columbine feel to him': Former classmates recall Texas shooting suspect Devin Kelley
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...braunfels-high-school-columbine-a8041926.html

As authorities attempt to piece together a profile of the suspect in the mass shooting that killed 26 people in Sutherland Springs, Texas this week, former classmates have recalled him as a drifter, a loner, and in some cases, a source of fear.

Neighbours at Kelley’s parent's home, where suspect Devin Patrick Kelley lived in a barn behind the tree-lined, 28-acre property, said they had barely seen him. Co-workers at the Summit Vacation Resort, where he worked as a security guard, described him as hardworking, if a bit unfriendly.

But one former classmate at New Braunfels High School said Kelley stood out for having “a Columbine feel to him” – a reference to the 1999 school shooting that killed 13, that, in the wake of the Texas shooting no longer appears on the list of the top 10 mass shootings in America.

I am not surprised by this one bit. People who knew mass killers say there is something off about them. People were not surprised that Jared Loughner, Elliot Rodger, Dylann Roof, Adam Lanza, and Seung-Hui Cho did mass murder.

This also applies with serial killers, predators, and con artists. There is always something off about them.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

The trouble is, restraining orders are worthless if a person is determined to harm you. Sometimes they escalate the problem.

Everyone should read “The Gift Of Fear” by Gavin deBecker, which explains these issues in detail.



The thing is, everyone has a right to remain silent. No one HAS to talk to LE. That’s a protection for all of us, even though it allows someone like your neighbor to avoid arrest. Anyone should think twice if they think they want to give up that right in order to solve crimes. It’s a delicate balance.
JMO

A **person** or an individual doesn’t have to report anything. But mandated authorities have to......agencies have to....departments in the military have to...law enforcement has to.

And yet we still have abject failure to protect the innocent beings in our society.

 

[gitana1]

This f'ing psycho. Hunting children like that. I'm so angry right now.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I'm confused about the timeline. If DK was confined in New Mexico for 12 months from Nov 2012 to Nov 2013, how could he be accused of sexual assault in Texas on June 2013?

*****

"In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Mr. Kelley was charged with assault..........he was ultimately sentenced in November that year to 12 months’ confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank. His final duty title was “prisoner.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

*****
"The Comal County Sheriff's Office has confirmed that it is re-examining a sex assault case involving the Sutherland Springs shooter that may have fallen through the cracks.

Sheriff Mark Reynolds told KENS 5 the Comal County Sheriff's Office received a call on June 18, 2013, for a reported sex assault.

The suspect was Devin Kelley. The name of the victim has not been released.

Reynolds said the case hasn't been touched since October 2013. The investigation stalled when Kelley moved to Colorado."
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/suth...nding-sex-assault-case-sheriff-says/489903868

Wouldn't DNA clear that up?
Or was that covered up too?

Moo

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[CARIIS]

totally offtopic!

I have not seen Miss Brooke in ages! Something is off - does she not seem "off"?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EN3mb7H_HYI

 

[HMSHood]

"According to psychiatrists and epidemiologists, "a history of violent behavior is a far better predictor of future violence than mental illness," said Duke University professor Jeffrey Swanson."

What we know about Texas church shooter Devin Patrick Kelley
www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-kelley-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.html

I would be more worried if someone has a violent history than someone with or without mental illness.

Statistics on Bullying and School Shootings
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.2_0.pdf

Many school shooters have history of bullying. Bullying can lead to violence.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wouldn't DNA clear that up?
Or was that covered up too?

Moo

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I was questioning the conflicting dates however as others have pointed out, the sexual assault report could've been filed in June 2013 regarding an earlier incident. If that were the case, doubtful there'd be DNA evidence.

 

[CARIIS]

This is banana cakes!!!

Or paranoia!!!