TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

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My understanding is that he was living in a very nice apartment Built inside a pole barn on his parents multi million dollar property moo


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That's what I understood too. That's speaks volumes to me, they probably loved their kid, but had reached a point that they couldn't live in the same home with him (guessing, of course). Too much friction. May have been kinda scared to have him in the home too, but, didn't want him walking homeless on the streets, nowhere to go, especially with mental health issues.
 
To my non professional psych worker knowledge he has them, like many other criminals-Axis II or Cluster B issues, Aka personality disorder(s). He fits Anti-Social Personality Disorder to a T (aka psychopathy) from everything listed here. He fits every bit of the description and I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t more. There could be some chemical diagnoses thrown that we may learn about some day, but his personality was disordered for a very long time.
But I am suggesting we discuss him without pigeonholing him.. omit the labels and see what we find..
It has not yet been confirmed, as far as I know whether or not he belonged to any militia group or was influenced by them in any way..
a diagnosis is speculative and tends to close the conversation..
 
only mo there is nothing evil

it identical to diabetes insulin

its neurotransmitters moo

it is medical

and imo until our society grasps this


well duck ................

I agree, however, I do believe that some people, can "hate", to the point of doing evil things.
 
Um what? I'm gonna retract my former theories that mental health help could not be afforded for him. I'm so confused.

Seems they did. He was on meds in school.
 
when voices are running thro there mind they are not paying attn to the law, or care imo

Thank you CARIIS. When they hear those voices in their head, they are as real to them, as if someone is in front of them, speaking to them. When they see the visions, they are so real. I know everyone hates this man but he had a sickness, just like someone with cancer, imo.

I hope this is not against TOS and the link is allowed, but this young lady was diagnosed with schizophrenia and has started coping by drawing what she sees. I can't imagine seeing these type things all of the time, and them being so real.

[FONT=&quot]"My illustrations make me feel less lonely, so I hope I can do the same for other people."[/FONT]
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliegerst...-schizophrenic?utm_term=.ykkabgdlR#.kalJm9r5L
 
I think DK had some type of mental and/or personality disorder that made him kill. It's sad that he slipped through the cracks.

I do think pure hateful evil exists like in the case of the Isis terrorist. He mowed down innocent people in a rented Home Depot truck a few days ago. There was no mental illness in his background.
 
But I am suggesting we discuss him without pigeonholing him.. omit the labels and see what we find..
It has not yet been confirmed, as far as I know whether or not he belonged to any militia group or was influenced by them in any way..
a diagnosis is speculative and tends to close the conversation..

I respectfully disagree!

It might sound good, not to label -- although the human mind is pretty remarkable- the world around us is way to choatic to make sense of without categories.

It affords us a starting point , in which we can began to process what is around us.

It is automatic. I order to find a file it must be labelled at some point to know where to began locating it.

We are endlessly labeling everything around us - out of awareness.

I would guess gender is the starting label. The core one to process what that entity across from us is. Expectations surround that label.

I am confident in this setting - we all have been surprised, when on occasion , for whatever reason (labels humming in the background) we stumbled across the reality that a poster is the opposite gender of , for all sorts of reasons we categorized / lableed wrongly!!

It is a label tho. Human. Male or female, it then goes on from there - with no control on our part - it is inherent and mandatory.

The reality is , however, everything changes in that instant. NOthing has changed, while from that moment on everything changed! In terms of understanding and interacting with.

SOunds bad - but it is not. Its hard wiring, socialization, and learnings from youth. Ducks imprint.

We all do it, and would not abandon our fantasy that our doggies are giving us big kisses when they are licking us!

They are not. In there initial existence suckling is the first sensation they have - it satiates needs, feels safe and wonderful. It elicits powerful and important sensations. So there little facial expressions when engaging in that behavior we interpret as love.

We would not have it any other way ruff ruff. But it is illustrative.



At a more quiet level as it relates to the personality disorders, there primarily environmental. Its an impossibility for a human animal not perceive , behave and respond to them and world around them if all those basics are impacted by neurotransmitters.

Stated poorly. An individual experiencing the world thro a schizophrenic mind is going to both perceive and respond to their environment different than a non schizophrenic mind.

But the important thing is IMO that greatly influences the way the world in that person's exterior responds to the And then maladaptive ( the disordered personality) begins to form.

Labels for lack of a better word are also vital in expediting communication. A he said, or a she said, instantly starts an entire labeling sequence.

It can be negative for sure - but it is inherent for our little brains...................
 
I think DK had some type of mental and/or personality disorder that made him kill. It's sad that he slipped through the cracks.

I do think pure hateful evil exists like in the case of the Isis terrorist. He mowed down innocent people in a rented Home Depot truck a few days ago. There was no mental illness in his background.
Its not at all clear the NY vehicle attacker was not suffering from mental damage.
Theres a huge amount of hateful evil in white people as well, we are currently experiencing an exponential rise in white supremacy, neo nazis, racist Islamophobic, Hinduphobic, Xenophobic hate groups..
 
I respectfully disagree!

It might sound good, not to label -- although the human mind is pretty remarkable- the world around us is way to choatic to make sense of without categories.

It affords us a starting point , in which we can began to process what is around us.

It is automatic. I order to find a file it must be labelled at some point to know where to began locating it.

We are endlessly labeling everything around us - out of awareness.

I would guess gender is the starting label. The core one to process what that entity across from us is. Expectations surround that label.

I am confident in this setting - we all have been surprised, when on occasion , for whatever reason (labels humming in the background) we stumbled across the reality that a poster is the opposite gender of , for all sorts of reasons we categorized wrongly!!

It is a label tho. Human. Mae or female, it then goes on from there - with no control on our part - it is inherent and mandatory.

At a more quiet level as it relates to the personality disorders, there primarily environmental. Its an impossibility for a human animal not perceive , behave and respond to the world around them if all those basics are impacted by neurotransmitters.

They are not experimental - its a cohesive whole from which all else starts marinating.
I agree, but I think it would be better to collect his symptoms first.
we do not have them all yet..

I know mental health is inadequately resourced to a shameful level, this problem is worldwide..
 
So how much did the pastor know? Because aren't we all "God's children" if he is preaching Christianity?
I don't really understand why a Pastor would actively want to run someone out of their congregation. They are supposed to be there to help. MOO

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Oh, man. I just had a bad thought. I wonder if he did do anything to try and force him out? That might explain the trolling the community people (wonder if they were church members), the Atheist group followings, and it's his mil's church. Put it all together and I just had a horrible thought.
 
I respectfully disagree!

It might sound good, not to label -- although the human mind is pretty remarkable- the world around us is way to choatic to make sense of without categories.

It affords us a starting point , in which we can began to process what is around us.

It is automatic. I order to find a file it must be labelled at some point to know where to began locating it.


We are endlessly labeling everything around us - out of awareness.

I would guess gender is the starting label. The core one to process what that entity across from us is. Expectations surround that label.

I am confident in this setting - we all have been surprised, when on occasion , for whatever reason (labels humming in the background) we stumbled across the reality that a poster is the opposite gender of , for all sorts of reasons we categorized wrongly!!

It is a label tho. Human. Mae or female, it then goes on from there - with no control on our part - it is inherent and mandatory.

At a more quiet level as it relates to the personality disorders, there primarily environmental. Its an impossibility for a human animal not perceive , behave and respond to the world around them if all those basics are impacted by neurotransmitters.

They are not experimental - its a cohesive whole from which all else starts marinating.

But CARIIS, do you think there's a difference between the general random internet stranger giving him a label and a professional giving him a label? I get he needs a label to be treated, a label so other people understand what they're dealing with, but for internet strangers to say "Oh, he was ADD" I think is dangerous and just makes stigma worse. If he had ADD it had nothing to do with why he did this, just like he was born in Texas and it had nothing to do with why he did this.

What makes mass shooters do what they do goes far beyond, imo, a personality disorder or mental illness. (Although I defer to you because I've seen you call it time and again!)

I don't know. I think you're right we start with male and then add to it, but never forget all the pieces go together and we are limited in what we can label him as. Like white, male, 26, Texan, ex-military, an abuser... we have to stick to the facts. And one label alone isn't enough.
 
Oh, man. I just had a bad thought. I wonder if he did do anything to try and force him out? That might explain the trolling the community people (wonder if they were church members), the Atheist group followings, and it's his mil's church. Put it all together and I just had a horrible thought.
It has occurred to me that in trying to protect his flock, the pastor may have triggered this guy. If so, I really feel for the pastor.

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Education is needed. You would not believe what happened to me at 17 that I didn't report (I'm not referring to the assault I mentioned earlier. This was more complicated). By the time I realized why I should have reported it despite what that knowledge in the public might have done to me, years had passed. If something happened with that person now, I would absolutely speak up to LE now.

It haunts me a bit even now that I didn't report it. But the idea of reporting it still scares me, because there would have been fall-out.

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I completely understand, and am so sorry for your pain.
 
I've been harassed and threatened and the police will sometimes take a report. That's it. That's all they can do. If you file for a restraining order it can anger the stalker even more. There's not much the victim can do short of moving, changing your name.

Restraining orders are not worth the paper they are written on. Period.
 
Oh, man. I just had a bad thought. I wonder if he did do anything to try and force him out? That might explain the trolling the community people (wonder if they were church members), the Atheist group followings, and it's his mil's church. Put it all together and I just had a horrible thought.
I was wondering the same thing. They all seemed pretty tight knit.


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I too am an owner of legally purchased firearms and support the same. Humans are fallible and for whatever reason something happened and his paperwork didn't get filed, and computer are only as good as the info that goes into them, we used to call it GIGO (garbage in garbage out). Even if everything had been done perfectly, I think, TX is the same as my state, and he could have purchased firearms from private sellers w/o any problem. Private sellers can sell their own firearms, as long as the private seller does not knowingly sell to a felon. I see firearms for sale on FB everyday. I'd absolutely never buy a firearm from someone off of FB, or trade/sell one of mine on FB. No way. However, I have no problem passing my background checks.

The same is true in my home state of SC, as well. Even if he'd been denied the purchase of those guns, I doubt it would have stopped him. He would have just found another way to get his hands on them (or others like them) by whatever means he deemed necessary. But, what concerns me is the fact that he didn't buy them at a gun show or from a private seller. He bought them from a gun store because the system we currently have in place failed. It doesn't matter if the failure was due to human error or negligence on behalf of the military, there should be safeguards in place to check and catch these failures. Every person who has slipped through the cracks is a potential ticking time bomb. Our lives are too precious to rely on a system that was created to protect us but only works some of the time.
 
Thank you CARIIS. When they hear those voices in their head, they are as real to them, as if someone is in front of them, speaking to them. When they see the visions, they are so real. I know everyone hates this man but he had a sickness, just like someone with cancer, imo.

I hope this is not against TOS and the link is allowed, but this young lady was diagnosed with schizophrenia and has started coping by drawing what she sees. I can't imagine seeing these type things all of the time, and them being so real.

[FONT=&amp]"My illustrations make me feel less lonely, so I hope I can do the same for other people."[/FONT]
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliegerst...-schizophrenic?utm_term=.ykkabgdlR#.kalJm9r5L

TY!

I will never forget an individual, who suffered from schizophrenia, had cleared a bit after being on meds for a bit described it to me like this.

He said it is like being between two radio stations, when both are going, but neither one is clear and there is static as well .

Don't know why but from the moment I heard he started shooting as he approached the building that represented religion with fever that switched me up.

That is symbolic. Rage at an entity based on early wounding. Then several days later when I saw the drone wide shot of the yellow bullet markers outside the church it gave me chills.

It was spraying. It was not even trying to hit anything. It was totally out of control. Frenzied. Visually I saw the texas chainsaw massacre guy when he is rearing up and back wailing the chainsaw around with wild abandon.

I am interested in the threatening text - verbatim - it context. It is like divorce court or very delusional?

He is dead. I do not understand why there has not been more revelations about the conflicts .

This is morbid - kinda - but the cell phone stuff also blew my mind. Solved. I think! They should have taken the phone to his fingers (if that is part of it) for his fingerprint.

Everyone is hacking everyones passwords. It is hard to grasp that if it is like a regular password that cant be overcome. But if it is one of those fingerprint deals it seems like that would have solved it

At the same time - for some reason I don't really think his phone is going to add much.

What basic sense we have from SM seems like it would be basically the same kind of themes.

It might I suppose give us insight into the severity and frequency of delusions if they were in fact present or exacerbating in recent weeks.

While at the same time, IMO, there is much data, in terms of serious delusional patterns going on for some time to have come to the conclusion (and do it) that one needs weapons on a navy base. That is some bizarre thinking patterns.

Only mo - that also has profound notions of paranoia - to believe that he needs guns to protect himself from military commanders.

All this is omo - but it stirred up notions of command hallucinations - being told to get them on base.

On a final note - sorta - two kinds of voices. Those that are inside ones mind - and those that are external - kinda like being "told" .

Don't recall the order, but malingering is easier to determine ( like for folks trying to feign psychotic stuff) if they present more internal or external voices but don't remember the order!!

I am certainly no implying he was not the real deal .

His med history might be very telling as well.

I suspect he was out in the barn because they were mortified of him - in childhood would not be surprised if he was pulling knives or stuff on family members.

And then they are in really rural area. That would influence IMO notions about mental illness - but am thrown off by dads vocation. Education typically can be helpful in terms of family response to a loved one being sick.

I found this : Lets take two identical children (for our purposes). One in working class rural environment, another in an affluent educated family system.

Thanksgiving, In each event same behavior - child flips over the table.

Making generalizations but there are dynamics that ring true at least in my exp.

In both family settings LE is called.

In the lower social economic setting arrest is wanted.

In the other family system (again generalizations but validity) when LE arrived family members insist that loved one be transported to a mental facility - not locked up.

The messages tho - for the ill child - are wildly different...............................

enough babbling I tell myself !
 

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