TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[MistyWaters]

From this article -
A former friend needed a place to stay stay, and he offered her a place in return for weekly sexual favors.

This guy seems to have been abnormal in every way.

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NYDailynNews give us an great example of the use of attention-getting and somewhat misleading headlines ---

Texas church shooter's father breaks his silence: 'We are grieving'

"The gunman’s father declined to comment any further on Wednesday, saying, “I don’t want our lives, our grandchildren’s lives, destroyed by this media circus.”

****

I think DKs children have been forgotten in all this. I'm sad for their sake.

 

[Cryptic]

It's almost as if they released him knowing exactly what he might do.

I think this is very unfair.

There are over 2,200,000 prisoners in the United States. Every year, hundreds of thousands of these people are released for various reasons.

I bet that a certain percentage of them have histories of violence, show aggressive tendencies, and otherwise give off "unpleasant vibes". Yet, the vast overwhelming majority do not go on shooting rampages.

Though DK warranted more time in prison and should have been given a dishonorable discharge, there are no crystal balls when it comes to predicting the future behavior of a person.

Sure, DK, gave some warning signs that he could potentially commit mass murder, but so do tens of thousands of other people being sentenced and released every year in the United States. DK would fit a profile as a rampager. Unfortunately, so do a lot of other people in his population group (ex cons in the USA)

 

[x_files]

I think this is very unfair.

There are over 2,200,000 prisoners in the United States. Every year, hundreds of thousands of these people are released for various reasons.

I bet that a certain percentage of them have histories of violence, show aggressive tendencies, and otherwise give off "unpleasant vibes". Yet, the vast overwhelming majority do not go on shooting rampages.

Though DK warranted more time in prison and should have been given a dishonorable discharge, there are no crystal balls when it comes to predicting the future behavior of a person.

Sure, DK, gave some warning signs that he could potentially commit mass murder, but so do tens of thousands of other people being sentenced and released every year in the United States. DK would fit a profile as a rampager. Unfortunately, so do a lot of other people in his population group (ex cons in the USA)

There is actually a way to predict mass shootings, he had all the red flags and his crimes were increasingly getting more violent.
Cracking an infant's skull was beyond a red flag he should have been imprisoned for the rest of his life over that crime alone.

 

[Cryptic]

There is actually a way to predict mass shootings, he had all the red flags and his crimes were increasingly getting more violent.
Cracking an infant's skull was beyond a red flag he should have been imprisoned for the rest of his life over that crime alone.

Yes, DK had red flags indicating that he had the potential or that he was more likely to commit such horrific crime- but so do a lot of other ex cons.

There are no crystal balls. There are only reviews of red flags. Very few of the specific people with DK's red flags engage in rampage shootings. There simply is not a reliable way to predict which red flagged person will rampage, and which one never will.

 

[bluesneakers]

Restraining orders are not worth the paper they are written on. Period.

One way they are worth it - if they've violated the person can go to jail. Sometimes they work.

 

[zencompass]

Hundreds of thousands of men have committed extreme domestic violence and murder.

Many have dozens of red flags.

I believe some individuals are born with an "evil bent". I truly do believe this.

How many of the hundreds of thousands would enter a church and kill babies and children? Only those who have always had an "evil bent".

The only exception I have found to this have been religous and cultural genocide attacks on populations of women, babies and children. I'm not saying these are not "evil" acts because they are atrocious and against any form of humanity we feel.

I know, there is no proof to the idea of humans being born with "evil" leanings and there likely never will be proof.

When I say "evil" I mean a darkness and viciousness that we will never understand but it is within certain individuals' conscienceness.

This is my opinion only.

 

[bluesneakers]

Was that the piece where his schoolmates said he was complaining that his parents were drugging him?

Yes, and it might have been true but if he is our only source.... he can't be trusted imo.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, and it might have been true but if he is our only source.... he can't be trusted imo.

I didn't think so either..

 

[Deleted member 158085]

He should not have been let loose to crack another baby's head at a later date, or beat on another woman. The rape charge should have been pursued, as should the animal abuse charge. He should have been doing time for a multitude of things. Our system failed, not once or even twice with him, but many times. We need to explore that.

It does not matter that men like him are unlikely to become mass shooters. It should matter, though, that even if they don't go on to shoot dozens of people, that they will go on to hurt more children, rape more women, abuse more animals. Each charge should have been taken more seriously even if it only prevented one more violent crime.

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[rosemadderlake]

Mass Murderers Fit Profile, as Do Many Others Who Don’t Kill

How Mentally Ill?

Can you kill in this way and be sane?

From his research, Dr. Fox believes that in the universe of mass murderers, including the domestic killers, the robbers and the burglars, mental illness was not a significant factor. “Most involved in the family massacres are not seriously mentally ill, but vengeful,” he said.

But when it comes to seemingly indiscriminate killings like those in Oregon, that is another matter. “For the purely random attackers, that’s where you find psychotic thinking,” “The more indiscriminate, the more likely there is serious mental illness.”

Dr. Duwe, among his 160 cases of mass public killers, concluded that 61 percent had a serious mental health disorder, “or at least had some symptoms indicating that they did have one.” Paranoid schizophrenia was the most common ailment, he said, followed by depression.


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/...-profile-as-do-many-others-who-dont-kill.html

---
I found the profiles in this article when looked at together offers some common clues.

The one word that sticks out to me regarding the Texas murderer is vengeance. Breaking that down, elements of isolation, outcast, rejection, powerlessness, self loathing, hatred & blame? And a trail of little consequence. A tragedy in the making.

How impossible it really is to understand the psychology of the level of a manifestation such as mass murder. It is totally outside the box of the thoughts, experience, moral code, and mental illness of the majority of civilization.

There is an unfortunate tendency in this country right now to write off as 'mentally ill' or broad brushstroke terrorism & hate for political purposes. What separates 911 is it was a clear act of war. What the lone wolf uses might be part of a disordered vehicle? What are the external and internal forces that make this kind of domestic, religious, and/or political acts of violence, mass murder, and terrorism a vehicle?

 

[bluesneakers]

Is the US the only country with mentally ill who kill many people?

People with mental illnesses are more likely to kill themselves than anyone else, and are more likely to be victims than they are perpetrators, and that's probably true in ALL countries, not just the USA.

A study in the American Journal of Public Health found that databases that track gun homicides show that less than 5 percent of 120,000 gun-related killings in America between 2001 and 2010 were committed by people with a diagnosed mental illness.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/nov/08/facts-mass-shootings-united-states/

Myth: People with mental health problems are violent and unpredictable.

Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population.

You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities.

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html

 

[bluesneakers]

Why Better Mental-Health Care Won't Stop Mass Shootings

The connection between mental illness and mass shootings is weak, at best, because while mentally ill people can sometimes be a danger to themselves or others, very little violence is actually caused by mentally ill people.

Both Jared Loughner, who shot and severely injured Representative Gabrielle Giffords, and the Aurora, Colorado, shooter James Holmes, for example, had histories of mood disorders. But a study of convicted murderers in Indiana found that just 18 percent had a serious mental-illness diagnosis.

Killers with severe mental illnesses, in that study, were actually less likely to target strangers or use guns as their weapon, and they were no more likely than the mentally healthy to have killed multiple people.

Compared to those with no criminal record, handgun purchasers who have at least one misdemeanor conviction are seven times more likely to be charged with a new offense after they buy their gun. Right now, only 23 states restrict people with a history of violent misdemeanors from owning firearms.

This is long so I won't copy and paste, but if anyone is interested it's worth read. From NIMH:
Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms

Four assumptions frequently arise in the aftermath of mass shootings in the United States: (1) that mental illness causes gun violence, (2) that psychiatric diagnosis can predict gun crime, (3) that shootings represent the deranged acts of mentally ill loners, and (4) that gun control “won’t prevent” another Newtown.
[snip]
These issues become obscured when mass shootings come to stand in for all gun crime, and when “mentally ill” ceases to be a medical designation and becomes a sign of violent threat.

 

[kittythehare]

People with mental illnesses are more likely to kill themselves than anyone else, and are more likely to be victims than they are perpetrators, and that's probably true in ALL countries, not just the USA.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/nov/08/facts-mass-shootings-united-states/


https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html

Great to read these posts and that of rosemadderlake.
I was trained allopathically prior to retraining wholisticaly .. it was a huge brain spin..
To chuck the labels.. all of them.. and learn to regard the manifestations of the person's life force.. examining the positive intention of a behaviour..
describing it in minute detail until a full picture emerges..not a diagnosis.. a description.. and then prescribing..

Its a far more efficient system ..losing prejudice is the journey..its all about being present and available- for what the moment gives.. how the patient or perpetrator experiences his life.. how he perceives the world.. what he hopes to gain from an action and whether this is a realistic expectation...
Never a diagnosis, never a judgement..

 

[margarita25]

I've been harassed and threatened and the police will sometimes take a report. That's it. That's all they can do. If you file for a restraining order it can anger the stalker even more. There's not much the victim can do short of moving, changing your name.

(When I lived overseas with my abusive ex who used to beat the crap out of me, I would be screaming for help...screaming bloody murder...neighbors heard, but did nothing because they didn't want to get involved....I'd be screaming "help"....in the particular third worldish location where I was, it was accepted and common for women to be abused with no legal consequences.)

 

[margarita25]

I've been harassed and threatened and the police will sometimes take a report. That's it. That's all they can do. If you file for a restraining order it can anger the stalker even more. There's not much the victim can do short of moving, changing your name.

(That's pretty much what I ended up having to do...but of course he found me...)

 

[Cryptic]

But, to bring up once again a mom I am acquainted with who has a troubled son. The parents are very well educated - at the top end of that scale. In terms of affluence, they are comfortably well off, though not wealthy. THEY SUFFER so much because they cannot find the right help for their son.

Eventually he went away for school, and while that provided some relief for the family, it didn't do much for the son.
I have no solutions.

That is a mirror image of a family I knew. The parents were involved in both church and the larger community. No history of mental illness or criminal behavior in the family in living memory. I doubt either parent was a closeted abuser.

Their other children showed all the signs of being well raised, intelligent children. One of the sons, however, was violent, sexually manipulative, and soon developed a taste for drugs and alcohol.

After he was not responsive to home correction, the parents turned to the church as well as the best teachers and councilors their affluent school had. This was followed by expensive private schools and private therapists. They lived in a city that gave them access to the best professionals in these areas.

Nothing worked, the aggression and impulsive actions continued. I don't know how the story ended, or to what extent the son in question criminalized. He appeared not to care when he got in trouble. I do know is that the parent's tried everything and there was nothing left for them to do.

 

[zencompass]

(When I lived overseas with my abusive ex who used to beat the crap out of me, I would be screaming for help...screaming bloody murder...neighbors heard, but did nothing because they didn't want to get involved....I'd be screaming "help"....in the particular third worldish location where I was, it was accepted and common for women to be abused with no legal consequences.)

Dear Margarita25,

It saddens me to hear you went through this atrocity. I am greatly thankful that you are alive.

Whenever I read of someone (after something tragic happens) telling a reporter "well, it was none of my business" or I was afraid to "get involved", I just shudder. What if the tables were turned?

The public's "fear of getting involved" is slight compared to what another human being is going through.

It is always my hope that people do the right thing. Our humanity depends on protecting/helping others. I believe we can lose some of our "humanity" when we look the other way. Our instinct tells us what to do. The right thing.

 

[sds71]

He used animals for target practice.
Thought Dylan Roof was cool
http://fox6now.com/2017/11/09/texas...st-for-target-practice-former-colleague-says/

 

[simba16]

CNN just previewed a new story; I don't know if I want to hear it. Shooter allegedly bought animals for target practice. I am always so disturbed by animal or child abuse and this cretin guilty of both. He bought dogs off Craig's List for target practice, killing them; he was fascinated with mass murder.

 

[simba16]

I'm just so glad he took his own life.