GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #5

[Dora the Explorer]

October is still pretty warm here. It's just starting to get bearable. March may be lovely or freezing.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO but I don't think that a plastic bag has to be completely airtight to cause suffocation, it just has to obstruct the airways or to accumulate just enough carbon dioxide inside to cause asphyxia.

 

[human]

I don't have to read a Wikipedia article about it; I still have some of the books about it from when I learned about it in grad school in 1989, which according to my estimations is a bit more recent than 1973. I really don't know why you're arguing with me about it. You're saying basically the same thing as I am except that you don't quite seem to understand what you're saying. MOO

You may want to read about PL 94-142, the law of 1973 which changed the lives of special needs people in the US. It granted the right to a free, appropriate , education instead of being locked up in institutions.

 

[human]

~
That was me that posted the articles about geographic profiling.


I cannot speak for LE, I'm not with them.

That article was really good. I am wondering why YOU feel the FBI has this wrapped up.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Why do you feel FBI has a handle on it?

Even with the billboards and stopping cars?

I do not remember who posted the article on the geographies of where a child is killed, but in the article it talked about how the media is actually a help.

It also talks about the importance of knowing a time for the crime.

And even though people who listened to scanners know what time the father said she was last seen, it is not general knowledge. He also stated what she was wearing which is also not general knowledge.

So why does LE not release this info?????

BBM

I've actually gone back to your post here now several times and then deleted my response.

Do you have any friends who when you are talking they finish your sentence for you or you look at each other and say, "I was just thinking the same thing?"



They aren't asking people to look for her clothing ect...


They were very specific about the dark colored mini-van.

They aren't begging the public for help/information like they did with Kyron Horman.


None of what I just wrote probably makes any sense to anyone else but me.


:jail:

 

[IBsleuthin]

That article was really good. I am wondering why YOU feel the FBI has this wrapped up.

Oh I would not say they have this wrapped up.

But I do think they are leaning in the direction I think they should.

This may never be wrapped up who knows.

 

[blue22]

Absolutely NO offense taken! 2 heads are far better than one and I would never be so ridiculous to think I had the only good opinion.:blushing:

I see what you are saying as far as temperature.

In my mind what I was thinking more of was the mental state of the person. Sometimes there are certain times of the year that trigger someone.

I also was thinking in groups of 1/4's of the year as well. To me, two children killed in this close of a proximity within 2 months of each other, (even though separated by 2 years).. is worth taking note of. Maybe gives us a glimpse into the mind of the person doing this.

In Texas is March REALLY the same as October in temperature?

I don't remember.

No, not the same. Just closer in temperature and pattern. Average high for March is 70, and October 79. The average high for January is 57. October and March are quite sunny and more predictable (as much as weather can be in Texas!) then January. We can have freezing temps and ice/snow one day and sunny and warm less then a day later. March is the very beginning of tornado season, but that really peaks in May- June. March doesn't usually bring much. We CAN get freezing temps in March, but not often. It's happened some in the last few years, but it is not really common. It still feels like a spring freeze, rather then like winter.

 

[IBsleuthin]

No, not the same. Just closer in temperature and pattern. Average high for March is 70, and October 79. The average high for January is 57. October and March are quite sunny qnd more predictable (as much as weather can be in Texas!) Then January. We can have freezing temps and ice/snow one day and sunny and warm less then a day later. March is the very beginning of tornado season, but that really peaks in May- June. March doesn't usually bring much.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. :seeya:

 

[Donjeta]

Early on, recall, there were reported to be signs of decomposition. That report vanished quickly.

I think it probably went something like this:


Reporter asking: So who is the victim? Is it a boy or a girl?

The police: We can't say at this time. (Thinking: I can't reveal any details, I'm under orders not to talk about the case to the reporters, so you'll just have to wait for the presser)

Reporter: *writes down* The police can't tell the victim's sex (Thinking, oh, they don't know, it must be decomposed).

 

[IBsleuthin]

I wonder how common it is (as far as serial killers go) for there to be a different cause of death, for each known victim. I'm really not seeing the similarities in these cases, aside from area and brown hair. Not to be morbid, but that age range is a common one for this type of crime.

I don't think you are being morbid at all. I think it's the REALITY of the situation.

But if you stop and think about the odds of this taking place with these three girls living within that close of an area...it's certainly something to look at.

I keep going back to how unplanned and impulsive the first two were and then of course we don't know how Alanna's went because there were no witnesses. Unlike the first two.

This may speak to the fact that IF this is the same person or people, this person is OLDER and has more experience now.

Without the inside information we still are just guessing.

(We can be good guessers though).

 

[IBsleuthin]

JMO but I don't think that a plastic bag has to be completely airtight to cause suffocation, it just has to obstruct the airways or to accumulate just enough carbon dioxide inside to cause asphyxia.

Indeed.

Do you remember that young woman out in I think New Jersey, (has to be 8 years ago)...she was at a night club and then found the next morning wrapped in an older bedspread.

She had been tortured in this same way with a bag.

If the victim is bound and has no way to fight back it doesn't take much plastic to obstruct the airway.

Even in a medical emergency when you are trying to HELP someone it doesn't take much to occlude their airway.

I wish I could remember that young woman's name, it sounded Italian if I remember right. She was beautiful.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Can't believe I found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Imette_St._Guillen

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Indeed.

Do you remember that young woman out in I think New Jersey, (has to be 8 years ago)...she was at a night club and then found the next morning wrapped in an older bedspread.

She had been tortured in this same way with a bag.

If the victim is bound and has no way to fight back it doesn't take much plastic to obstruct the airway.

Even in a medical emergency when you are trying to HELP someone it doesn't take much to occlude their airway.

I wish I could remember that young woman's name, it sounded Italian if I remember right. She was beautiful.

Imette St. Guillen?

 

[IBsleuthin]

This is from that same article from; forensic psychologist Dr. Stephanie Stolinsky;


"Whenever you hide someone's face, it means that you don't want to see them as a human being. You want to pretend that they're just an object".[11]

 

[SapphireSteel]

Apologies to Amber, I was thinking of another child.

I understand the desire to link the crimes.

Linking them means there's only one faceless monster, instead of three.

Contemplating three child killers within the same area is very frightening.

I don't know about Amber (Obviously) but I know there was an arrest in the other little girls case and Alanna's case is different to Ambers, to my mind.

They have similarities in that they were both crimes of opportunity though. Both of these predators were just waiting (or in Amber's case, hunting) for a little girl on her own to stray into their orbit.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Imette St. Guillen?

YES! (at the same time, JINX).
:seeya:

 

[gitana1]

I noticed something a bit interesting about the dates the three girls went missing. Although they are years apart, they sort of fall in line with when colleges and universities have breaks. Not exactly for all schools, but my oldest is in college and is usually home most of January, toward the end of March and all summer. It was just something that stood out to me. Maybe someone who works at a university and does some other work near Saginaw during breaks has been lurking around.

Smart thinking!

Apologies to Amber, I was thinking of another child.

I understand the desire to link the crimes.

Linking them means there's only one faceless monster, instead of three.

Contemplating three child killers within the same area is very frightening.

I don't know about Amber (Obviously) but I know there was an arrest in the other little girls case and Alanna's case is different to Ambers, to my mind.

They have similarities in that they were both crimes of opportunity though. Both of these predators were just waiting (or in Amber's case, hunting) for a little girl on her own to stray into their orbit.

Well, sympathizing with the "desire" to link the crimes so we can be less afraid of there being more monsters out there seems somewhat condescending. IMO, Alanna's death is more likely to be related to her home life. But the theory that there is someone local who preys on little, dark-haired girls, is not a silly theory or one based on an emotional need.

I don't analyze these cases based on emotion or fear. I'm a lawyer, I deal with horrible every day so I'm desensitized to the potential for horror and I'm very, very good at logic (which is partly why I became a lawyer).

It is not illogical to ponder the possible connection of three child abductions and murders of girls, with a similar look, no more than 3 years apart in age, all pre-pubescent, all found or abducted within 17 miles of one another, even if one occurred 13 years later.

 

[Confusion]

Originally Posted by Jovi Girl
I noticed something a bit interesting about the dates the three girls went missing. Although they are years apart, they sort of fall in line with when colleges and universities have breaks. Not exactly for all schools, but my oldest is in college and is usually home most of January, toward the end of March and all summer. It was just something that stood out to me. Maybe someone who works at a university and does some other work near Saginaw during breaks has been lurking around.

If they were abducted/murdered by the same person and a college/university was involved somehow, is it possible that he was a freshman in college when Amber was killed, a junior (or senior if he took a heavy load and was there for a few summer classes) and then got a job in a different area after graduation. It's possible that he just transferred or got a new job and moved back to the area. If so, there could be other girls fitting the description missing from the area where he live between Opal and Alanna. If he was a teacher, he may have seen Alanna at school, or just moved close by this summer to start teaching in the fall. MOO

 

[bessie]

I dont' think she was in a garbage bag. I can't find that anywhere. If she was in a garbage bag, how did the boys that found her see that her hands and feet were bound with red tape? They couldn't. They pulled back the tarp and saw her legs, feet, and head in a Walmart bag.

What Walmart bag?

911 call (audio only file)
Saginaw 911, where is your emergency?
Caller: We have a dead body on the corner of Round Rock & Cindy Lane in Saginaw.
911: Round Rock & Cindy Lane?
Caller: Yes, mam. I think it's a little girl in a plastic bag. Somebody dropped it off.
911: And what exactly is it?
Caller: I think it's a baby girl, a little girl.
911: And you say its in a baggie?
Caller: Yes, Its in a bag & everything. Its in a bag, it was tarped up. My kids opened it up. Because they said they were playing around with a dead body. I didn't open it all the way up but I can see the legs and eveything. There's a belt around it. Tape.
911: How big is it, is it small like?
Caller: I'm going to say probably.... oh, age ?
911: Well, is it a small like a Walmart bag or like a bigger trash bag?
Caller: Its a black trash bag. I don't know if its real. It looks real. I don't want to put my fingers all over it.
911: Thats fine.
end of recording

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/03/4980912/911-call-i-think-its-a-little.html

As for "red tape", if we're going to believe that statement, then we also must believe the "witnesses" who said Alanna was found in a garbage bag, not a Walmart bag. Since the "witnesses" are not identified, I question the entire statement.

Witnesses say Alanna's hands and feet were bound with red tape, a garbage bag covered her head and a tarp tied with a belt enveloped her half-naked body.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/22799...iological-father-talks-publicly#ixzz2YuaEkFAx

The 911 calls and comments by the boys and the mother showed that Alanna was found with a tarp over her, in a black garbage bag, with a plastic bag over her head, from what I can tell.

What plastic bag over her head?

'At first, I just thought it was some rubber stuff at first, and then I got a closer look and all I saw was a bag and I saw some hair sticking out and so, I was like, "Oh my God! It’s a girl!"' he said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html#ixzz2YueHJl5q

One bag.

​

 

[KateB]

There was one article posted 7/8 but I believe it could be an error since it conflicts with the 911 call.

http://www.wfaa.com/home/Search-war...of-slain-Saginaw-girls-parents-214656741.html

On July 1 at 7 p.m., two teenagers found Alanna's body at the intersection of Round Rock Drive and Cindy Lane. The teens said the girl’s hands and feet were tied and a plastic Walmart bag was over her head. Her body was wrapped in a tarp.

Walmart bags were also retrieved and listed on the seized items report to muddy this up more.