GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #6

[carbuff]

Yes, and Jessica wasn't left on display. Her torso was in a field and it was not easily found. Some men essentially stumbled upon the torso which was in a bag. Other parts of Jessica were buried under his house in the crawl space. We aren't privy to anything in Alanna's death which is similar to Jessica's.

I guess it depends on what you mean by display. By this definition Alanna wasn't on display either. I thought you meant "left in an obvious public place where she'd be found very quickly."

I don't see what Sigg's mother turning him in has to do with whether she was on display?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I guess it depends on what you mean by display. By this definition Alanna wasn't on display either. I thought you meant "left in an obvious public place where she'd be found very quickly."

I don't see what Sigg's mother turning him in has to do with whether she was on display?

My opinions only:

1) Sigg wanted to be caught. I believe he left the cross with JR's remains on purpose. He confessed to his Mom--I'm sure he knew what the outcome of that would be. Later he complained that LE didn't catch him sooner.

2) The manner of him disposing of JR (the remains he didn't keep at home) also suggest (to me) that he wanted her to be found. It wasn't in the woods, in a lake, buried, etc. It was right on the side of a frequently-traveled road, down a hill from an old structure where people hung out and partied. Only the vaguest nod towards 'hiding' her.

3) Don't forget he left her backpack with all her clothes (including her underwear) on a residential sidewalk.

Edit: here's a good quick map I found (not my work):

 

[Kip]

Teach your child to kick and scream if they are ever picked up. Teach them to thumb the eyeballs of the person grabbing them. No joke. Kick, gouge, BITE AND BITE AND BITE and scrape with their fingernails. Teach them.
.

Yes. Also, if they can't run away, teach them to go limp and kick. (Ever try to pick up a limp 2-year old? It's very difficult. An older child - it's almost impossible.) Legs can inflict more damage than arms. Kick when you can, but go limp to make it harder to be lifted up.

 

[jjenny]

Or she was heavier than the maximum? Or they didn't think the tarp was a disposable container?

Trash is usually picked up in the morning. From what has been reported, she was last seen at either 4 or 5 pm. Trash was most likely already picked up by then.

 

[Mitsana]

One of the odd things about this case is the location of the body. On the assumption that the perp left the body at that location intentionally, here's a list of potential reasons for that location that I recall seeing in these threads. Did I forget any?

Perp tried to use trash day as means of disposal.

Perp had no time and/or panicked and dumped body fast near crime scene (crime scene could be very close to intersection or less close, near Allana's home).

Perp had sadistic fantasy/voyeuristic intentions (imagining or actually seeing the horror of the discovery).

Perp wanted Allana's remains to be found (empathy).

Perp wanted remains found to implicate self (guilt).

Perp failed at dumping body in more remote location and quiet residential street was the backup.

 

[human]

This is true, but it's also very, very rare. Most killers don't display their victims like this. They either leave them where they killed them or dispose of them in a very secretive way.

There was quite a list on here of children who were killed by a parent and left by the road.

I don't know where the list is, but it is on this forum about Alanna somewhere

 

[cypress]

Going off of your last few sentences, cypress, what if this is a young, local killer? Crime of opportunity, parents are away, sees Alanna alone in the neighborhood often, might know her a little from living nearby, grabs her. Gets a phone call saying parents are on their way home or suddenly realizes they will be home soon, panics and quickly dumps her body. Also if a husband realized his wife was coming home soon. People do irrational things during adrenaline rushes from the fear of being caught - I.e., hurriedly wrapping her in a tarp and putting her on a random sidewalk. He thinks he's lucky for getting this done on trash day, or has planned it this way. Doesn't count on anyone peeking inside the tarp.

For me, this is the most feasible explanation. Yes, it was trash day, but again, did he plan to abduct her on trash day? I tend to think he/she was interrupted in some way, and she was dumped this way because the perp was panicked. I think that it was trash day might be a coincidence. Otherwise, she might've been disposed of in a trash can or something.

 

[carbuff]

My opinions only:

1) Sigg wanted to be caught. I believe he left the cross with JR's remains on purpose. He confessed to his Mom--I'm sure he knew what the outcome of that would be. Later he complained that LE didn't catch him sooner.

2) The manner of him disposing of JR (the remains he didn't keep at home) also suggest (to me) that he wanted her to be found. It wasn't in the woods, in a lake, buried, etc. It was right on the side of a frequently-traveled road, down a hill from an old structure where people hung out and partied. Only the vaguest nod towards 'hiding' her.

3) Don't forget he left her backpack with all her clothes (including her underwear) on a residential sidewalk.

Edit: here's a good quick map I found (not my work):

Yes, I know, I followed the case. I was responding to a comment about whether other killers had left their victim in a more or less public place to be found. I mentioned Jessica's killer because he was an example. I wasn't speculating on the reasons or what either Alanna's killer or Jessica's hoped to accomplish.

 

[carbuff]

Trash is usually picked up in the morning. From what has been reported, she was last seen at either 4 or 5 pm. Trash was most likely already picked up by then.

I agree. If the trash is picked up in the morning, that makes it unlikely he intended her to be picked up.

Does anybody local know whether it's common for tarps etc. to be sitting on the street after the trash pickup has been made? Like do the garbagemen pull them off the waiting trash and leave them behind?

 

[cypress]

There was quite a list on here of children who were killed by a parent and left by the road.

I don't know where the list is, but it is on this forum about Alanna somewhere

Yes, I read that, but we can't speculate about parental involvement. My speculations are more geared toward stranger abductions/killings. If we were allowed to speculate about parental involvement, well, I guess I can't say more because I don't want to get in trouble.:angel:

 

[Kip]

Going off of your last few sentences, cypress, what if this is a young, local killer? Crime of opportunity, parents are away, sees Alanna alone in the neighborhood often, might know her a little from living nearby, grabs her. Gets a phone call saying parents are on their way home or suddenly realizes they will be home soon, panics and quickly dumps her body. Also if a husband realized his wife was coming home soon. People do irrational things during adrenaline rushes from the fear of being caught - I.e., hurriedly wrapping her in a tarp and putting her on a random sidewalk. He thinks he's lucky for getting this done on trash day, or has planned it this way. Doesn't count on anyone peeking inside the tarp.

Good point.

I still think it's possible the tarp slid out of a truck. This seems like a crime of opportunity, so the killer's DNA is probably present. It should have been very important to the killer that Alanna's body not be found. But, as you said, maybe panic took over.

When Jessica Ridgeway was found, it was puzzling as to why the killer didn't leave her body out in the wilderness. At the time, I speculated that the killer didn't have access to a vehicle, or didn't have the opportunity to drive further away (possibly because of job and family obligations).

A panicked husband? Quite possibly. Or maybe a panicked teen.

 

[carbuff]

One of the odd things about this case is the location of the body. On the assumption that the perp left the body at that location intentionally, here's a list of potential reasons for that location that I recall seeing in these threads. Did I forget any?

Perp tried to use trash day as means of disposal.

Perp had no time and/or panicked and dumped body fast near crime scene (crime scene could be very close to intersection or less close, near Allana's home).

Perp had sadistic fantasy/voyeuristic intentions (imagining or actually seeing the horror of the discovery).

Perp wanted Allana's remains to be found (empathy).

Perp wanted remains found to implicate self (guilt).

Perp failed at dumping body in more remote location and quiet residential street was the backup.

Perp wanted Allana's remains to be found (terrorizing the neighborhood, revenge against society in general)

 

[Texas twostep]

Imo the perp dropped alanna off at corner curbside for his/her own convenience.
More than likely nobody was around outside or driving. Push her out and drive away. I wonder if there are any surveillance cameras on the homes right around that intersection. Bet not.

I live 4 miles away and have been reading here soon after she was found. The other day I was talking with a friend about the lack of news on this. My friend said that she knows someone who lives nearby and does have surveillance cameras. Apparently the FBI was at this persons house for a long time reviewing tapes right after the discovery. A few days later the FBI came back and confiscated the surveillance tapes.

I know that is just hearsay but I thought I'd throw it in there.

 

[human]

Alanna may not have known the perp but I think the perp knew her.....
Knew she almost always ran around the neighborhood ALONE....
Alone For hours at a time.
Knew that they (perps) were NOT allowed in Alanna's yard per comment from someone in her neighborhood.

And that set off a Red flag for me...we had one house on my childhood street that was always off limits. Friends said we couldn't play in that yard.....later as a teen , I found out the occupants violent alcoholics.

If you study different family dynamics, one of them that is incredibly harmful is the shame based family. That is the one where children learn that secrets must be kept in order to protect the family.

This occurs in alcoholic and sex abuse families among others.

People say that some things are genetic. I, and many others, say that children learn these inappropriate dynamics and carry them on. The individual his/herself may not be an alcoholic, for instance, but s/he marries an alcoholic .

Very interesting. Shame is a very destructive thing. Please, never shame your children.

 

[madeleine]

One of the odd things about this case is the location of the body. On the assumption that the perp left the body at that location intentionally, here's a list of potential reasons for that location that I recall seeing in these threads. Did I forget any?

Perp tried to use trash day as means of disposal.

Perp had no time and/or panicked and dumped body fast near crime scene (crime scene could be very close to intersection or less close, near Allana's home).

Perp had sadistic fantasy/voyeuristic intentions (imagining or actually seeing the horror of the discovery).

Perp wanted Allana's remains to be found (empathy).

Perp wanted remains found to implicate self (guilt).

Perp failed at dumping body in more remote location and quiet residential street was the backup.

Perp had no time and/or panicked and dumped body fast near crime scene (crime scene could be very close to intersection or less close, near Allana's home). IMO

IF she was taken by a stranger,he didn't spend much time with her.And probably didn't have time to get rid of all the evidence (wiping the body off,etc)...he probably made mistakes

same re someone known did it....which IMO is the case...someone panicked (accident?) and this is good cause this means whoever did it made mistakes

 

[gitana1]

Would LE use a search warrant with a list like they did even if the family agreed to allow them search the home and seize whatever property they needed for an investigation?

In other words, does the presence of a written search warrant imply that the family required it, and wouldn't grant permission to access the home and contents otherwise, or is it more likely that LE would use an official written warrant simply to have a record for legal purposes later in a trial setting. Is it a paper trail that they'd use regardless?

LE would absolutely get a search warrant under such circumstances regardless of parental permission.

Alanna's body covered in a tarp, but not hidden from view may be an example of "undoing". This is a person's way of expressing a desire to "undo" the corpse's death.
http://murders.ru/Classific.pdf
Chapter 2

Reading your excellent link it seems clear indeed that the disposal of Alanna's body reflects undoing rather than staging. In staging scenarios the body is uncovered, on display and often posed.

 

[cypress]

One of the saddest cases, Samantha Runnion. Although her murderer left her near the Cleveland national Forest, which is somewhat remote for densely populated southern California, she was off Killen Trail which is off a main road and is where lots of off road bikers go. As a result, Samantha was found the day after she was abducted.

Samantha was posed and "left on display".

Aww, I remember little Samantha Runnion. That case was so incredibly heartwrenching. I hear you about her being posed and the trail being frequently traveled, but the killer still had a measure of privacy to do what he did.

My main point with Alanna is that her body was left in the middle of an intersection. That is extremely unusual. You've got the fact that she was left in the middle of an intersection but she was heavily covered, so you've got the public spectacle of where she was found versus the concealment of her body. We don't really know why she was left in the intersection, but we know she was concealed. She was wrapped in bags and a tarp and probably bound/restrained somehow in life and death. Working backward from what we know (the concealment of her body), this doesn't seem like someone was trying to make her discovery a spectacle. IMHO, she wasn't posed or left on display (evidenced by the fact that her body was concealed). I think the killer was just trying to get rid of her quickly.

 

[matou]

Something was preventing the perp(s) from burying her. Lives with others? Rents?

 

[jjenny]

I agree. If the trash is picked up in the morning, that makes it unlikely he intended her to be picked up.

Does anybody local know whether it's common for tarps etc. to be sitting on the street after the trash pickup has been made? Like do the garbagemen pull them off the waiting trash and leave them behind?

People don't usually put tarps onto the trash.
It's either in a garbage bag (or any plastic bag) or a garbage can.

 

[jjenny]

Aww, I remember little Samantha Runnion. That case was so incredibly heartwrenching. I hear you about her being posed and the trail being frequently traveled, but the killer still had a measure of privacy to do what he did.

My main point with Alanna is that her body was left in the middle of an intersection. That is extremely unusual. You've got the fact that she was left in the middle of an intersection but she was heavily covered, so you've got the public spectacle of where she was found versus the concealment of her body. We don't really know why she was left in the intersection, but we know she was concealed. She was wrapped in bags and a tarp and probably bound/restrained somehow in life and death. Working backward from what we know (the concealment of her body), this doesn't seem like someone was trying to make her discovery a spectacle. IMHO, she wasn't posed or left on display (evidenced by the fact that her body was concealed). I think the killer was just trying to get rid of her quickly.

I think it's possible she fallen off the track/roof of car, etc. Perp might have been nervous and didn't secure the body. So it fell and perp was too nervous to stop and pick it up.