TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered his apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018 #3

[sloane7777]

there was a red doormat in front of his door, not in front of hers. she had a dog, he did not. the APT number is clearly marked with a neon sign to the left. the door automatically shuts and is too heavy to stay ajar, as has been proven by the video provided by the Daily Mail after talking to neighbors. she had also previously filed noise complaints. not sure where the doubt is, but there seems to be quite a few privileged posters here that are making excuses that really defy logic.

ETA* the key flashes red when in the incorrect door, also.

Video contradicts story of white Dallas cop who killed black neighbor | Daily Mail Online

JMO and all that but.....(here it goes) , I don't know her dog situation but what kind of a person works 12-15 hour shifts and leaves a dog alone in her apt , I certainly hope she had a walker or something ...which leads me to believe THEY would have a key so why so jumpy? if she had no one coming to let her dog out or no doggie daycare then in my opinion she is a horrible person for that alone ( I have no issue crucifying ANYONE over a furbaby )

 

[Cryptic]

yes I get it, I'm referring to all the memes re: murdering people that get on your nerves , that was defiantly a theme of sorts , I'm not referring to to the political ones .

I agree, it does has a theme of sorts. I just don't think the theme portrayed is strong enough for an officer to be fired simply for posting them. Nor do I think that they are strong enough to serve as evidence of a pre-disposition to commit a crime. Rather, I think the case should be based entirely on the officer's physical actions that night.

Though it may be preferable that police officers not post sarcastic references to shooting people, nor post material critical of say, political leaders, the available social media post are just not enough to show aggravating circumstances in my opinion. They seem to fall with in the range of allowable personal expression.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Hadn't thought about that but that's interesting. Usually in parking garages, the last floor has a definitely different layout than all the other floors. Meaning it just doesn't keep circling around like all the others - it has a stopping point somewhere. Another clue that she was on the wrong floor. I would love to know where she parked at on that floor.

del

​

again should have backed out and called for backup like she supposedly is trained to do , had she done that she would have realized where she was.

Also to add to your point, she may have really thought it was her apartment and they can claim stand your ground rules all they want and say that was her reasoning to protect her place, but I would urge the state to counter her statement with every single sign and indicator that she was in the wrong area. Had she paid attention to the multiple signs beginning at garage, she would have never "mistaken that he was an intruder" in her place. Furthermore, I'm not buying I was so tired. She work 13.5 hours and only live 17-20 mins max from her job to her place. Its not like the girl worked a night shift and came home that morning. She came home at 9:30. I'd love to see what her work schedule that week was. Better yet, I want to see her timecard of that day. With all the lies and cover-ups, who knows if they are even telling the truth on that.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Also to add to your point, she may have really thought it was her apartment and they can claim stand your ground rules all they want and say that was her reasoning to protect her place, but I would urge the state to counter her statement with every single sign and indicator that she was in the wrong area. Had she paid attention to the multiple signs beginning at garage, she would have never "mistaken that he was an intruder" in her place. Furthermore, I'm not buying I was so tired. She work 13.5 hours and only live 17-20 mins max from her job to her place. Its not like the girl worked a night shift and came home that morning. She came home at 9:30. I'd love to see what her work schedule that week was. Better yet, I want to see her timecard of that day. With all the lies and cover-ups, who knows if they are even telling the truth on that.

Listen, I've been tired before and I've work 5 days of 12's straight before vacation before. There's different types of tired. Tired - like that was a long day and Tired- from a night shift where nothing is going on. Trust me. Major differences working Day, Evening and Night. I'm not saying she can't be tired. I just don't buy that she was so tired from a job that requires a lot of excitement throughout the day, that she couldn't pay attention to the multiple signs that should have alerted her to the fact that she was at the wrong apartment.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

I want to know about this dang noise complaint. What is the true story? There's way too many statements about this. Can they please stick to one? Did she call before work, Did she call after work, Did she call last week, Who made the complaint, was it against him? Was he home when they checked? Who checked? What time did they check? Why can't the leasing office tell the lawyer if they indeed go up there to check on it?

If the story from last night is true about the investigators believe that the leasing ladies went up to tell him about the complaint. Which I've never heard of, but if they did, was he there or not? Because if so ... well let me just tell you. If someone finds a legit answer - let me know please.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Also, talking about all these stories. DPD should be held completely responsible if they released that search warrant where she had "told them" that he met her at the door because I am pretty sure thats a sworn statement that whoever wrote up, either told the truth or lied, and as far as the other non-sense and false allegations that they claim that gets changed up on a daily basis, should also be held responsible. Do they think we are dumb? We know exactly why they released that information about the marijuana information, the jail house video, and that interview about her being sorry last night. They know something that we don't yet, but its basically covering her *advertiser censored* with these sad stories to turn it around and make her look like the victim because it's worked in the past. Reverse psychology, but I don't buy it. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then guess what? Its a duck. lol - I think I had it mixed up but you get the point.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

Maybe she did it on the clock using the people's vehicle for her personal business. If so, it's hard for me to imagine local residents not having seen her with some regular frequency outside of going to and coming from work. And then there is days upon weeks upon hours of surveillance video you can bet that complex likely doesn't keep very long.

JMO and all that but.....(here it goes) , I don't know her dog situation but what kind of a person works 12-15 hour shifts and leaves a dog alone in her apt , I certainly hope she had a walker or something ...which leads me to believe THEY would have a key so why so jumpy? if she had no one coming to let her dog out or no doggie daycare then in my opinion she is a horrible person for that alone ( I have no issue crucifying ANYONE over a furbaby )

 

[Katerz]

rbbm

In her mind with the magical thinking?

The REALITY of where she was and what she did is far, far more important than her perception (aka magical thinking) of where she was and what she was doing.

I do not believe she didn't know where she was. (And if she truly didn't know where she was, that is a whole 'nother can of worms for her as a law enforcement officer, and for DPD.)

And in at least one version of her story, she was not IN an apartment THAT WAS NOT HERS, she was in the hallway outside an apartment THAT WAS NOT HERS, in full uniform, banging on the door (as per witnesses) of an apartment THAT WAS NOT HERS.

Botham Shem Jean is a VICTIM, shot IN HIS OWN APARTMENT by an officer of the law whose training should have created a very different ending. There were many many points in her journey to the door of an apartment THAT WAS NOT HERS where she could have chosen a different path. And instead, she chose to shoot an innocent man IN HIS OWN APARTMENT.

I've never once said she shouldn't suffer some consequences for what happened. Yes, a man is dead. Yes, she caused his death. I've never once said differently.

I'm just done posting on this thread. I'm over being made to feel like my opinion is wrong, WRONG, WRONG. And to me, that's not right. We are all allowed our own opinions based on what WE see. I take slight offense to the "magical thinking" comment.. because I've been in that state before of going to the wrong place and not noticing the signs that pointed to it wasn't my place. It's like anyone who has a different stance of she's not a cold blooded killer is wrong and not allowed to say a word. So I will just bow out now.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Okay. I want everybody to put all the facts away and close your eyes for just a second. Imagine driving from work, going up to the parking garage, getting out and walking down the wrong hallway and truly try to open the door but its already cracked open from his "door not shutting" all the way earlier. You see an intruder and in your mind, then you shoot. Forget all the facts. Do you really believe that can happen? I'm curious. Because once I thought about it, I just can't believe that story. I literally feel like I would hit the lottery way before that scenario would ever be true. The same day his door doesn't accidentally close is the same day that she accidentally walks into his apartment. I'm sorry, I jut can't. I want to be fair and listen to all evidence but I just can't do it.

 

[btfly547]

Also to add to your point, she may have really thought it was her apartment and they can claim stand your ground rules all they want and say that was her reasoning to protect her place, but I would urge the state to counter her statement with every single sign and indicator that she was in the wrong area. Had she paid attention to the multiple signs beginning at garage, she would have never "mistaken that he was an intruder" in her place. Furthermore, I'm not buying I was so tired. She work 13.5 hours and only live 17-20 mins max from her job to her place. Its not like the girl worked a night shift and came home that morning. She came home at 9:30. I'd love to see what her work schedule that week was. Better yet, I want to see her timecard of that day. With all the lies and cover-ups, who knows if they are even telling the truth on that.

Former night shift nurse here. Frequently did 12-15 hour stressful shifts. Never once went to the wrong apartment door or wrong house, ever. I once almost pulled up to the wrong townhome, but quickly realized the house number and that the neighbor didn't have a patio bench like I do. Not buying her story.
As a nurse, I can kind of get the morbid humor. I can laugh at things most can't. Still I wouldn't take it as far as she did.

 

[btfly547]

My theory for all of this is that she either 1) couldn't find parking on her level and decided while she was on the 4th floor already to go confront Botham then things went wrong. 2) Decided to park on the 4th level to confront Botham about the noise and things went wrong.

I don't "think" she went there to intentionally kill him that night, but I do believe she either got that upset at him not answering to her commands, or was high on drugs, or is just plain trigger-happy.

It will be interesting to see what happens, but my guess is 2 years max. Maybe manslaughter and that's it. I'm hoping she goes to trial, but then I'm thinking it may end in a hung jury.

 

[btfly547]

Does anyone know in cases like this in Dallas how the sentencing works?
If convicted by a jury, does the judge then decide the sentencing or the jury. My guess is the judge but not totally sure.

 

[Jax49]

Does anyone know in cases like this in Dallas how the sentencing works?
If convicted by a jury, does the judge then decide the sentencing or the jury. My guess is the judge but not totally sure.

IINAL, but found this.

Punishment Phase in Texas
If a defendant is found guilty, a punishment phase to determine the sentence occurs.

In Texas, the judge is the default choice to decide the sentence. However, a defendant has a right to have a jury decide the sentence.

https://www.texasdefenselaw.com/library/trial-process-in-texas/

bbm

 

[VAgirlatheart]

I've never once said she shouldn't suffer some consequences for what happened. Yes, a man is dead. Yes, she caused his death. I've never once said differently.

I'm just done posting on this thread. I'm over being made to feel like my opinion is wrong, WRONG, WRONG. And to me, that's not right. We are all allowed our own opinions based on what WE see. I take slight offense to the "magical thinking" comment.. because I've been in that state before of going to the wrong place and not noticing the signs that pointed to it wasn't my place. It's like anyone who has a different stance of she's not a cold blooded killer is wrong and not allowed to say a word. So I will just bow out now.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think the facts behind this is that there is a lot of inconsistencies and I think the ones (including myself) are really passionate about these cases because frankly (or atleast in my case, I can't answer for everyone else) We are just tired of this happening over and over and over again. Its draining. Every year we see a case where there is proof that due to negligence or ignorance and THE BIG ONE - LACK OF DETAIL/FEAR takes another person and due to the fact that they are police officers, they do seem to get off and thats coming from someone who just graduated with my bachelors in this field. I personally feel like even if she did not intentionally mean to hurt him, but due to her lack of detail and recklessness she should not be able to try to put this on the fact that she just made a mistake. she also should not be able to use the stand your ground rule because of her lack of detail. Now, I don't know if she murdered him or not. I don't have the evidence. But I do not believe she should be let off of manslaughter because she admitted to it. Its unfortunate for her but it was her responsibility to make sure she was at the right place, not his. If she was truly that tired and she truly thought it was her house,then she should take her employer to court and that shouldn't have a damn thing to do with this case. She'll have plenty of time in jail to take DPD to court. But No, I do not feel sorry for her for a mistake that she made. Furthermore, anytime she has that gun on her hip, she needs to be even more attentive to details. I will no longer give cops a pass when they admit to a crime or when its recorded that there was no threat to their life because the next one may be my husband or my child and I'm not as sweet as his mom was. Her being tired has nothing to do with the fact that the Jean family just lost a 26 year old son. But I am sorry that you feel like you are getting attacked. I will be more cautious on my part how I respond back your questions even though, I'm not sure if I was one of them or not. lol

 

[cybervampira]

Methodist pastors show support for Botham Jean's family outside DPD HQ, then will walk to apartment building where Jean was killed by Amber Guyger. Methodist pastors to show support for Botham Jean's family on Wednesday

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=319056631985100

 

[VAgirlatheart]

IINAL, but found this.



https://www.texasdefenselaw.com/library/trial-process-in-texas/

bbm

A few things that are very interesting to watch out for. Faith Johnson was/is responsible for these cases.

Convicted Killer, Former Officer Roy Oliver Sent To Prison In Huntsville

Body cam footage shown as ex-Mesquite officer goes on trial for shooting unarmed man (Agg Assault)

http://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas...criticized-for-not-arresting-mesquite-officer

But I thought these were interesting. RO went through a jury for sentencing I believe. We will see how the other plays out.

Remember, RO had a body cam that said some pretty rough things on. If in fact, it was an accident and she gets manslaughter. I'd say because of that she would probably get way less time than RO.
I still think its possible that she tried to get in the door and he opened it up, scared her and fired shots out of fear. If thats the case, i'd think she would get less time. But do not let me find out more evidence and proof that this was a murder because it changes the game a little and I could care less if she got 4293423942 years. But as of now, I will give her the benefit of the doubt and rock with the manslaughter charge.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Chief Renee Hall said federal and state laws prevent her from firing Guyger for the shooting death of Botham Jean. But it was unclear what those laws are.

Dallas Chief Says She Can't Fire Amber Guyger Over Botham Jean Shooting

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Maybe she did it on the clock using the people's vehicle for her personal business. If so, it's hard for me to imagine local residents not having seen her with some regular frequency outside of going to and coming from work. And then there is days upon weeks upon hours of surveillance video you can bet that complex likely doesn't keep very long.

I'm sure if she did have one, the dog is now with a DPD officer lol

 

[Jax49]

Dallas Chief Says She Can't Fire Amber Guyger Over Botham Jean Shooting

Hall asked the community to be patient and to allow investigators to do a complete investigation, including talking to more potential witnesses. She said the community talks about not trusting DPD and then criticizing the move to bring in an outside agency.

Maybe because the community doesn't trust the Rangers either? moo

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Maybe because the community doesn't trust the Rangers either? moo

Maybe? Is there a history there?