TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

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michelle said:
I remember her saying something like she had to kill them to save their souls, pretty much on the same line as susan smith..

I remember something about that as well with the Susan Smith trial, but I don't think it is even in the same ballpark as the AY tragedy. IMO, Susan Smith methodically killed her children and knew exactly what she was doing. I truly believe Andrea (in her own mind) killed her children to save their souls. Susan Smith killed her sons to get a man.
 
Oh i dont buy for one minute that susan smith was as mentally ill as andrea yates, although i do think she has some mental issues....Susan smith did think though that by drowning her children she would let them be with Jesus and away from the horrible world...So she was a little out there too.....Although she was too chicken to kill herself in the end like she originally planned on doing..
 
michelle said:
Oh i dont buy for one minute that susan smith was as mentally ill as andrea yates, although i do think she has some mental issues....Susan smith did think though that by drowning her children she would let them be with Jesus and away from the horrible world...So she was a little out there too.....Although she was too chicken to kill herself in the end like she originally planned on doing..


Susan Smith had the same type of mental illness as Darlie Routier and Debbie Milke - narcassism.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Susan Smith had the same type of mental illness as Darlie Routier and Debbie Milke - narcassism.
I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO
 
I took the following from the Crime Library web page on women who murder. I think Rusty SHOULD be held accountable.
__________________________________________

Rusty introduced Andrea to a preacher who had impressed him in college, a man named Michael Woroniecki. He was a sharp-witted, sharp-tongued, self-proclaimed "prophet" who preached a simple message about following Jesus but who was so belligerent in public about sinners going to hell (which included most people) that he was often in trouble. He even left Michigan, according to Mugshots, to avoid prosecution.


Rusty corresponded with Woroniecki, who wandered around with his family for several years in a bus, and eventually he believed he had found the Holy Spirit. Woroniecki spent a lot of time in his street sermons and letters to correspondents judging them for their sins and warning them about losing God's love. In particular, he emphasized that people were accountable for children, and woe to the person who might cause even one to stumble. He once stated, "I feel like I need a sledge hammer to get you to listen." He denounced Catholicism, the religion with which Andrea had grown up, and stressed the sinful state of her soul.

He also preached austerity, and his ideas were probably instrumental in the way the Yateses decided to live. As Andrea had one child after another, she took on the task of home-schooling them with Christian-only texts and trying to do what the Woroniecki and his wife, Rachel, told her.

"From the letters I have that Rachel Woroniecki wrote to Andrea," says Suzy Spencer on Mugshots, "it was, 'You are evil. You are wicked. You are a daughter of Eve, who is a wicked witch. The window of opportunity for us to minister to you is closing. You have to repent now.'"

According to a former follower, the religion preached by the Woronieckis involves the idea that women have Eve's witch nature and need to be subservient to men. The preacher judged harshly those mothers who were permissive and who allowed their children to go in the wrong direction. In other words, if the mother was going to Hell for some reason, so would the children.

After two more children had come along, Rusty decided to "travel light," and made his small family sell their possessions and live first in a recreational vehicle and then in a bus that Woroniecki had converted for his religious crusade and sold to them. Andrea didn't complain—she was the type of woman who just went along with decisions---but she got pregnant again and had a miscarriage. Yet it wasn't long before she recovered, was again pregnant and had her fourth child, making their 350-square-foot living quarters rather cramped. She continued to correspond with the Woronieckis and to receive their warnings. They thought it was better to kill oneself than to mislead a child in the way of Jesus—a sentiment she would repeat later in prison interviews.

Not surprisingly, she sank into a depression. She was lonely. She tried to be a good mother, but the pressures were building. At the same time, her father grew ill with Alzheimer's and she had to help care for him. Then things got bad.
 
NewMom2003 said:
I remember something about that as well with the Susan Smith trial, but I don't think it is even in the same ballpark as the AY tragedy. IMO, Susan Smith methodically killed her children and knew exactly what she was doing. I truly believe Andrea (in her own mind) killed her children to save their souls. Susan Smith killed her sons to get a man.
Isn't this the same defense being used in court on the mom who just recently dropped her three children off the pier into the San Fransisco bay? I'm by no means saying that these women are sane, what sane mother would do this to their own children! But on the other hand, the people in their lives who turn a blind eye or ignore the cries for help should also be tried, and the insane moms locked into a mental facility for the rest of their days (prison/state or otherwise.) A little off the subject here...my BIL and SIL are going through the beginning stages of divorce (he cheated and got a gal preggers, we just found out about 1 1/2 year old son!) anyways, when him and my SIL fight, he threatens to kill himself. How many times in the news have we heard of people who kill themsleves and take loved ones with them? I am terrified for her safety and that of my 4 yo nephew. Any suggestions?? I'll take whatever you've got:confused: .
 
michelle said:
I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO

For 9 long days Susan Smith insisted that a black man had taken her car and kidnapped her children. IMO, she was as sane the day she let Michael and Alex drown as the day she went on national tv telling the world how much it hurt her that people were starting to doubt her story. She's not mentally ill. She just a cold murdering b*tch that I have absolutely no pity for.
 
BillyGoatGruff said:
She didn't call anyone for help with her mental state because she was a complete and utter hollowed out shell by that point,thanks largely to a non-supportive and isolating family structure, exemplified by her grinning knuckle-knob of a husband.
Insanity is far more subtle (and insidious) than simply acknowledging the difference between what SANE people know is right and wrong. That's why they need "guilty but insane" added to the jury choices. We've made immense leaps and bounds in understanding brain chemistry and mental illness over the last 30 years, but the judicial concept of insanity is mired in the late 19th century, where they expect the insane to be drooling, crapping themselves in public , and incapable of coming in from the poring rain (which sounds more like they were describing mental retardation than insanity, to me--since back then they made no distinction between the two conditions and would lock the mentally handicapped up with the insane).

That's right; you don't reason like even a half-way normal person when you're in major, rock-bottom depression or borderline psychosis.

Same reason people commit suicide, when with help and straightening out of those brain chemicals they could get over the hump and maybe lead a good life one day.

Too bad it's so complicated and the brain can't just take an aspirin, go to bed and then feel OK the next day.
 
NewMom2003 said:
For 9 long days Susan Smith insisted that a black man had taken her car and kidnapped her children. IMO, she was as sane the day she let Michael and Alex drown as the day she went on national tv telling the world how much it hurt her that people were starting to doubt her story. She's not mentally ill. She just a cold murdering b*tch that I have absolutely no pity for.
she did lie for 9 days about her children and then broke down and confessed, it was testified to that susan had mental illnesses, she had them since she was 6 years old and her father killed himself due to his own mental illness, i am not by any means defending her but i have studied this case inside and out and did papers for school on her and in my opinion, shes got mental issues....
 
bakerprune64 said:
Isn't this the same defense being used in court on the mom who just recently dropped her three children off the pier into the San Fransisco bay? I'm by no means saying that these women are sane, what sane mother would do this to their own children! But on the other hand, the people in their lives who turn a blind eye or ignore the cries for help should also be tried, and the insane moms locked into a mental facility for the rest of their days (prison/state or otherwise.) A little off the subject here...my BIL and SIL are going through the beginning stages of divorce (he cheated and got a gal preggers, we just found out about 1 1/2 year old son!) anyways, when him and my SIL fight, he threatens to kill himself. How many times in the news have we heard of people who kill themsleves and take loved ones with them? I am terrified for her safety and that of my 4 yo nephew. Any suggestions?? I'll take whatever you've got:confused: .

Sorry bakerprune, I haven't read anything about the mother in SF. I heard a little about it, but haven't read up on it yet.

As far as your SIL and nephew goes, I would be scared for them too. You just never know what people will do, especially if one is threatening suicide. Can she get a restraining order on him or get his visitation rights taken away because of his mental state? Prayers for them both. I hope they both stay safe during this.
 
NewMom2003 said:
Sorry bakerprune, I haven't read anything about the mother in SF. I heard a little about it, but haven't read up on it yet.

As far as your SIL and nephew goes, I would be scared for them too. You just never know what people will do, especially if one is threatening suicide. Can she get a restraining order on him or get his visitation rights taken away because of his mental state? Prayers for them both. I hope they both stay safe during this.
Thank You Newmom2003 for your kind thoughts. As far as a restraining order goes, they are all in the same house still. It looks as if she may be moving out in the next few days, and she thinks I'm over-reacting. I already called her mom and filled her in (MIL lives out of state) she agrees with me, but we don't know what we can do. Still looking for suggestions people, please help a fellow sleuther out. Thanks, J
 
michelle said:
I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO


She was depressed because she couldn't get her boyfriend to fall for her, IMO.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
She was depressed because she couldn't get her boyfriend to fall for her, IMO.
She was depressed at the age of six, many years before she met tom findley...
 
michelle said:
She was depressed at the age of six, many years before she met tom findley...


Okay, okay, you win. She was depressed. I hope she rots in hell. :innocent:
 
Let me guess, are we speaking of Susan Smith? I hate that woman with a passion. I don't think she has a mental illness. I think she as an awful monster. But that's just MO.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Okay, okay, you win. She was depressed. I hope she rots in hell. :innocent:
I actually laughed out loud at that, its nice to agree to disagree....:D
 
michelle said:
I actually laughed out loud at that, its nice to agree to disagree....:D


It sure is. LOL Hey, didn't she recently put out a "Babes in Prison" add so she can get penpals of the opposite sex? I hear she likes rainbows and teddybears. (no foolin). :eek: (Maybe they cured her while she's been incarcerated). :truce:
 
Jeana (DP) said:
It sure is. LOL Hey, didn't she recently put out a "Babes in Prison" add so she can get penpals of the opposite sex? I hear she likes rainbows and teddybears. (no foolin). :eek: (Maybe they cured her while she's been incarcerated). :truce:
yea she did and i thought then that something was seriously wrong, and it is rainbows and mickey mouse she likes, it really made me said to see that because i thought of how much my liitle boy likes mickey and i wondered if her kids did too...:(
 
michelle said:
yea she did and i thought then that something was seriously wrong, and it is rainbows and mickey mouse she likes, it really made me said to see that because i thought of how much my liitle boy likes mickey and i wondered if her kids did too...:(


Wasn't there a picture of her youngest son in a Mickey t-shirt??? Maybe she's sicker than we thought and that's why she said it???? I'm not equipped to understand these things. :confused:
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Wasn't there a picture of her youngest son in a Mickey t-shirt??? Maybe she's sicker than we thought and that's why she said it???? I'm not equipped to understand these things. :confused:
I am not either, yes there was a picture with that....I just cant understand how these moms do these things and can still live a life to where they want to meet people, i mean that is plain crazy....I am telling you i would DIE if i ever hurt my child that way or killed a child, they couldnt protect me from killing myself...I think in our normal minds we just cant fathom what these woman are going through that kill their kids...My cousin suffers from sever depression and i am worried because she is about to have twins and she has already had shock treatments done before this pregnancy she was in like a pyschosis, it reminded me of andrea yates, its really freaky....and she already has 2 little girls that she would let play outsied with nobody watching and they were like 5 and 2.....
 
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