TX TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #11

[Trudie]

So maybe there was a baby car seat strapped into the backseat of MF's car and she had it covered over with a blanket. Heidi gets in to sit next to and take a peek at MF's baby. MF says here let me hold those for you as she greets her, taking Heidi's phone/mail/keys, so that she is holding baby only.

could be. I doubt the baby seat was concealed, if it existed, HB thought MF had a baby.

eta if MF offered to hold things, that’d work out best if she was not driving, imo.

 

[Tortoise]

could be. I doubt the baby seat was concealed, if it existed, HB thought MF had a baby.

Sorry, I meant to conceal a baby that didn't exist, not to conceal the car seat

 

[Trudie]

You're right, that phone was indeed MF's biggest problem.

For sure. With HB not having her purse I can see the ever helpful MF hovering between the seats lending her dirty hands to hold things. Moo

 

[deugirtni]

X = Heidi's car parked.

Yes - I believe she was on her way to the car from getting the mail and saw MF's double parked car close to where she came out between the buildings.

The arrows show MF's cars route as she was captured on video headed north on the west side of the complex before being spotted on the north side headed east to leave after picking up HB according to the witness.

Just a question, but where was it confirmed where HB's car was parked?

 

[Trudie]

I know most of us are on the fence (a big one) about a second suspect. If such a person exists, I would think they’d be relatively easy to find, as I would assume s/he is someone known to MF, someone that MF spent a lot of time with, etc.

 

[Trudie]

Maybe. So you think after they abducted HB they risked being seen to go back to her apartment, get her purse and put it in the car?

was she seen on cam returning? Ty (behind here)

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Just a question, but where was it confirmed where HB's car was parked?

There are many photos of where it was parked. Since I've seen the complex with my own eyes it's easy to put the x on the map where her car was.

 

[Tortoise]

Just a question, but where was it confirmed where HB's car was parked?

there's a photo of it here deugirtni

Broussard’s car, [photo], is still parked outside the apartment she shares with Carey. The White Honda was unlocked and her purse was inside with her ID and bank cards still in it

Remains of missing Texas mom Heidi Broussard is found in trunk of car, her month-old-baby is found ALIVE, a week after they vanished – Her ‘Friend’ Megan Rose Fieramusca is facing murder charge over missing mother’s death

 

[bradfordsleuth]

After reading some of the discussion in the last few pages and just trying to tie in the known info from the AA....I speculate it may have went down like this:

MF calls HB somewhere between 8:30 and 9 and states that she is in town with her baby for an appt. and would like to drop off the key(s) to HB but she can't stay and baby is sleeping in the car and I don't want to wake her by climbing 3 sets of stairs with the car seat. Can you come downstairs....I will be parked out front?

Heidi comes out with baby Margo, and MF asks Heidi to get in the back for a second because she's dropped the key and needs to find it. Just settle in the backseat for a min and peek at 'baby Luna' in the carseat under a cover (assuming there is one)... and then when Heidi is distracted with settling with Margo and doing so, she clocks Heidi over the head with an object to knock her out.

This obviously not the cause of death and I'm not sure if all of Heidi's injuries would be mentioned in the AA.

Then either she drives away...or the possible third adult in the car (driving) does. This solves the question of why Heidi didn't raise an alarm bell with her cell phone right away...

In my opinion, whatever happened must have incapacitated Heidi immediately. I don't believe for a moment that she would have driven anywhere voluntarily without that baby unsecured in a car seat, unless she was either unable to prevent it from happening, or she thought she was driving to a parking spot a few feet away.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

The overhead view/map of the apartment was difficult for me to feel the lay of the land. This is not the exact apartment building where HB resided but a good street view of the property and parking by clicking around the property.

https://www.trulia.com/c/tx/austin/...austin-tx-78745--2110349492#lil-streetViewTab

When I wander around the corner from the map on this site linked above, the driveway there has a gate which is closed. I forget who, but didn't someone say those gates in that complex were never closed?

 

[UnderstandBlue]

When I wander around the corner from the map on this site linked above, the driveway there has a gate which is closed. I forget who, but didn't someone say those gates in that complex were never closed?

Are you talking about on Cooper? Those are fences - no gate on that side. I've never seen the south facing gate on Wm. Cannon or the east facing gate onto S. 1st closed. Although the S. 1st gate wouldn't have mattered that day, even if it was closed, because they're all designed to open for any car exiting - no code needed. You *should* need a code to get in the front gate, but I've never seen either closed. And I'd assume with her having a key she'd also have the code, should she need it.

 

[Dave F.]

MF's search on the 14th for bodies found in Austin makes me think she had dumped Heidi's body in Austin and went back for it. I hope they could find out where her car travelled, or phone pinged, between the 12th and the 19th.

If she did go back for it, I expect Heidi was in the bag from the very first day. That is what the restraint wording leads me to believe. As regards liberty, I think they were forced to word it like that so that they didn't hint at her being responsible for the murder until they had the evidence. But they seemed pretty sure that they had evidence that MF had restrained and placed Heidi in the bag, and in the trunk, and not another perpetrator.

MOO

The wording of the affidavit appears to follow to the Texas statute on kidnapping:

PENAL CODE
TITLE 5. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON
CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING, UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT, AND
SMUGGLING OF PERSONS
Sec. 20.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Restrain" means to restrict a person's movements without consent, so as to interfere substantially with the person's liberty, by moving the person from one place to another or by confining the person. Restraint is "without consent" if it is accomplished by:
(A) force, intimidation, or deception; or
(B) any means, including acquiescence of the victim, if:
(i) the victim is a child who is less than 14 years of age or an incompetent person and the parent, guardian, or person or institution acting in loco parentis has not acquiesced in the movement or confinement;
JMO
PENAL CODE CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING, UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT, ANDSMUGGLING OF PERSONS

 

[Trudie]

Criminals do incredibly stupid things, most making no sense to those of us on the outside peering in.
We know MF announced her pregnancy in May, we don’t know if she actually was pregnant, later miscarrying.
Either way, I do not believe she hatched her plot then & there, in the restaurant with HB & 2 other women.
So, had she already told CG she was pregnant, but not Heidi? Or had she spent sleepless nights from March-May thinking how she could buy more time with CG, considered a baby & then WHAM Heidi’s pregnant, or what?

Another thing, the witness didn’t mention MF’s car speeding away. Even if it had that would have meant little in a parking lot. We see erratic driving in parking lots all the time. I think MF had told HB she desperately needed to talk with her, HB enters & things go south. Unless there’s another person, we’ll never know what was said.

Moo

 

[Tortoise]

The wording of the affidavit appears to follow to the Texas statute on kidnapping:

PENAL CODE
TITLE 5. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON
CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING, UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT, AND
SMUGGLING OF PERSONS
Sec. 20.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Restrain" means to restrict a person's movements without consent, so as to interfere substantially with the person's liberty, by moving the person from one place to another or by confining the person. Restraint is "without consent" if it is accomplished by:
(A) force, intimidation, or deception; or
(B) any means, including acquiescence of the victim, if:
(i) the victim is a child who is less than 14 years of age or an incompetent person and the parent, guardian, or person or institution acting in loco parentis has not acquiesced in the movement or confinement;
JMO
PENAL CODE CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING, UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT, ANDSMUGGLING OF PERSONS

So restraint doesn't necessarily mean tying her up, or placing her in the bag, it can also cover (for instance) locking the car door so that she couldn't get out, and driving away.

It's the next part which seems ambiguous, about preventing her liberation BY holding her inside a bag in the trunk of the parked vehicle. Unless they know that Heidi was still alive in the bag when the car was parked in Houston, I think it's to do with gathering evidence that MF was instrumental in the strangulation, before they state when and by who her liberation was prevented (by killing her). I mean left like this, if they know MF put her in the bag in the trunk, and she was obviously dead on the 19th, the defense to that would have to be no she was already dead, unless someone else did it all. I doubt they can say a corpse wasn't liberated?

It seems very strange and I agree I'm sure the wording was according to the law, while they gathered more evidence.

MOO

 

[Trudie]

So restraint doesn't necessarily mean tying her up, or placing her in the bag, it can also cover (for instance) locking the car door so that she couldn't get out, and driving away.

It's the next part which seems ambiguous, about preventing her liberation BY holding her inside a bag in the trunk of the parked vehicle. Unless they know that Heidi was still alive in the bag when the car was parked in Houston, I think it's to do with gathering evidence that MF was instrumental in the strangulation, before they state when and by who her liberation was prevented (by killing her). I mean left like this, if they know MF put her in the bag in the trunk, and she was obviously dead on the 19th, the defense to that would have to be no she was already dead, unless someone else did it all. I doubt they can say a corpse wasn't liberated?

It seems very strange and I agree I'm sure the wording was according to the law, while they gathered more evidence.

MOO

Confusing as heck to explain, huh?
I had the same question last night regarding liberation/corpse. Does liberation extend to a concealed corpse? If the corpse is concealed it can’t be liberated?

 

[Trudie]

In my opinion, whatever happened must have incapacitated Heidi immediately. I don't believe for a moment that she would have driven anywhere voluntarily without that baby unsecured in a car seat, unless she was either unable to prevent it from happening, or she thought she was driving to a parking spot a few feet away.

I do believe MF had a car seat, the last thing she wanted was to be stopped by LE, moo.

 

[Trudie]

Another big question, did mF plan to kill HB, did she intend to kill anyone? Or did she only want a baby?
This might have started with her buying time with CG and MF planning to “miscarry” once she found housing & work.
Time passes and soon it’s too late to “miscarry”.
I’m 50/50 on whether she wanted Heidi dead. I think Heidi was her only real friend. Heidi had resurrected her relationship appx same time MF’s ended, that had to bother MF. At the time she was possibly depressed, Things are going great for Heidi.
I wonder if HB ever thought MF’’s pregnancy suspect.
As far as what occurred in the car after it left the complex, I still consider MF still started off with a plea for help & things went way off track. Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

Another thing about whether she dumped her body and went back later for it will be the post mortem changes. If Heidi wasn't already in the bag that will be evident by the livor mortis markings. Once the blood settles with gravity after death, after say a day or more, it stays there even if the body is moved. So if she was left lying on her back and was then several days later moved onto her side in the fetal position, livor mortis will reflect that. Then there is rigor mortis (the stiffening process lasting several days) which would make the body much harder to squeeze into the confines of a bag. So it seems most likely she had the bag ready with her on the 12th, whether she went back for her or not, which would seem to be evidence of planning. Unless she immediately went and bought one.

 

[deugirtni]

Seattle1 said: ↑
The overhead view/map of the apartment was difficult for me to feel the lay of the land. This is not the exact apartment building where HB resided but a good street view of the property and parking by clicking around the property.

https://www.trulia.com/c/tx/austin/...austin-tx-78745--2110349492#lil-streetViewTab

When I wander around the corner from the map on this site linked above, the driveway there has a gate which is closed. I forget who, but didn't someone say those gates in that complex were never closed?

Are you talking about on Cooper? Those are fences - no gate on that side. I've never seen the south facing gate on Wm. Cannon or the east facing gate onto S. 1st closed. Although the S. 1st gate wouldn't have mattered that day, even if it was closed, because they're all designed to open for any car exiting - no code needed. You *should* need a code to get in the front gate, but I've never seen either closed. And I'd assume with her having a key she'd also have the code, should she need it.

If you go to the site linked above by Seattle1, a googlemap pops up on the screen, I followed it along the main road and turned left on the first street, S 1st St... I can see the closed gate there with a do-not-enter sign? does this mean traffic is to flow only one way on the roadways within the complex, ie you can get out that way, but you can't ever get *in* that way? Here is a screenshot of what I'm seeing, and it notes the address at the top left,.. you can see the googlemap is imposed over the trulia site underneath.

 

[Trudie]

@deugirtni thank goodness we have @UnderstandBlue