TX TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #11

[deugirtni]

So restraint doesn't necessarily mean tying her up, or placing her in the bag, it can also cover (for instance) locking the car door so that she couldn't get out, and driving away.

It's the next part which seems ambiguous, about preventing her liberation BY holding her inside a bag in the trunk of the parked vehicle. Unless they know that Heidi was still alive in the bag when the car was parked in Houston, I think it's to do with gathering evidence that MF was instrumental in the strangulation, before they state when and by who her liberation was prevented (by killing her). I mean left like this, if they know MF put her in the bag in the trunk, and she was obviously dead on the 19th, the defense to that would have to be no she was already dead, unless someone else did it all. I doubt they can say a corpse wasn't liberated?

It seems very strange and I agree I'm sure the wording was according to the law, while they gathered more evidence.

MOO

Makes me wonder where the affidavits came from, if it is possible the pages subsequent to the first page were just copied over again from the 'tampering' affidavit, etc. They are going for two separate convictions here, one for doing something with a dead body, and one for restraining a person without their permission/kidnapping while alive, but the affidavits for the kidnapping charge(s) don't seem to indicate that (unless it is possible to 'kidnap' a dead body?????).

 

[Tortoise]

After reading some of the discussion in the last few pages and just trying to tie in the known info from the AA....I speculate it may have went down like this:

MF calls HB somewhere between 8:30 and 9 and states that she is in town with her baby for an appt. and would like to drop off the key(s) to HB but she can't stay and baby is sleeping in the car and I don't want to wake her by climbing 3 sets of stairs with the car seat. Can you come downstairs....I will be parked out front?

Heidi comes out with baby Margo, and MF asks Heidi to get in the back for a second because she's dropped the key and needs to find it. Just settle in the backseat for a min and peek at 'baby Luna' in the carseat under a cover (assuming there is one)... and then when Heidi is distracted with settling with Margo and doing so, she clocks Heidi over the head with an object to knock her out.

This obviously not the cause of death and I'm not sure if all of Heidi's injuries would be mentioned in the AA.

Then either she drives away...or the possible third adult in the car (driving) does. This solves the question of why Heidi didn't raise an alarm bell with her cell phone right away...

In my opinion, whatever happened must have incapacitated Heidi immediately. I don't believe for a moment that she would have driven anywhere voluntarily without that baby unsecured in a car seat, unless she was either unable to prevent it from happening, or she thought she was driving to a parking spot a few feet away.

JMO

I like it. Otherwise why didn't she wind down the window and yell her head off, stick her arms out to flag for help. I think I would have.

Do drivers have control over the rear window controls too?

 

[deugirtni]

Another thing about whether she dumped her body and went back later for it will be the post mortem changes. If Heidi wasn't already in the bag that will be evident by the livor mortis markings. Once the blood settles with gravity after death, after say a day or more, it stays there even if the body is moved. So if she was left lying on her back and was then several days later moved onto her side in the fetal position, livor mortis will reflect that. Then there is rigor mortis (the stiffening process lasting several days) which would make the body much harder to squeeze into the confines of a bag. So it seems most likely she had the bag ready with her on the 12th, whether she went back for her or not, which would seem to be evidence of planning. Unless she immediately went and bought one.

Yes, her 'purchase history' would be very interesting evidence, I would assume? ie fake pregnant bellies, duffel bags, infant swing, infant car seat/carrier, etc. Maybe other things we don't know about that are important? I guess that would be difficult to find if purchases were made in person, by cash? Doubt if every corner store would be selling pregnant bellies though?

 

[Trudie]

Another thing about whether she dumped her body and went back later for it will be the post mortem changes

Going back would be ultra risky yet we know it happens.
The duffle might have been in MF’s car all the time.
I’m outside a lot (weather permitting) & I have a good sized bag in my trunk with clean t-shirts, jeans, dog & horse treats, water, etc. the duffle keeps it all contained & if I end up in a friend’s vehicle, I can grab the duffle from my trunk. FYI it is not large enough to fit a large adult corpse.

@Tortoise I control my rear windows!

 

[deugirtni]

I like it. Otherwise why didn't she wind down the window and yell her head off, stick her arms out to flag for help. I think I would have.

Do drivers have control over the rear window controls too?

Yes. Safety feature for kids in the back. Can control all windows via the driver's seat, and can lock them.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, her 'purchase history' would be very interesting evidence, I would assume? ie fake pregnant bellies, duffel bags, infant swing, infant car seat/carrier, etc. Maybe other things we don't know about that are important? I guess that would be difficult to find if purchases were made in person, by cash? Doubt if every corner store would be selling pregnant bellies though?

Gosh yes, hadn't thought of that. She would need several sizes of fake belly, unless you can inflate them with air?

 

[Dave F.]

So restraint doesn't necessarily mean tying her up, or placing her in the bag, it can also cover (for instance) locking the car door so that she couldn't get out, and driving away.

It's the next part which seems ambiguous, about preventing her liberation BY holding her inside a bag in the trunk of the parked vehicle. Unless they know that Heidi was still alive in the bag when the car was parked in Houston, I think it's to do with gathering evidence that MF was instrumental in the strangulation, before they state when and by who her liberation was prevented (by killing her). I mean left like this, if they know MF put her in the bag in the trunk, and she was obviously dead on the 19th, the defense to that would have to be no she was already dead, unless someone else did it all. I doubt they can say a corpse wasn't liberated?

It seems very strange and I agree I'm sure the wording was according to the law, while they gathered more evidence.

MOO

I read it as an "either/or" situation. Placing HB in a bag and locking the bag in the trunk against her will certainly qualifies (It doesn't say they have to be alive, only taken against their will).....or taking MC in the car and holding her in another city also qualifies. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Oh that makes me even sadder, thinking she was totally imprisoned and realizing what was going down, with Margo in her arms to protect. Otherwise I'd conk the driver over the head from behind to make them crash the car, but for having a precious baby to think about.

 

[Dave F.]

Makes me wonder where the affidavits came from, if it is possible the pages subsequent to the first page were just copied over again from the 'tampering' affidavit, etc. They are going for two separate convictions here, one for doing something with a dead body, and one for restraining a person without their permission/kidnapping while alive, but the affidavits for the kidnapping charge(s) don't seem to indicate that (unless it is possible to 'kidnap' a dead body?????).

The basics of a murder charge, to me, boil down to:
"Who, What, Where, Why,and When"
They have four of the five, but are missing the "Where?" I think the wording of the affidavits is deliberately specific to the crimes she is charged with at this time, and doesn't offer any hints to what they are still investigating. JOM

 

[Tortoise]

I read it as an "either/or" situation. Placing HB in a bag and locking the bag in the trunk against her will certainly qualifies (It doesn't say they have to be alive, only taken against their will).....or taking MC in the car and holding her in another city also qualifies. IMO

They have to be alive to have a will though...

 

[Dave F.]

They have to be alive to have a will though...

.................but they don't have to remain alive to have been taken against their will. IMO IANAL

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I do believe MF had a car seat, the last thing she wanted was to be stopped by LE, moo.

I agree.

The wording of my post was confusing.
What I meant to say is that I don't believe that Heidi would have allowed herself to be driven anywhere with Margo unsecured in a carseat.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I like it. Otherwise why didn't she wind down the window and yell her head off, stick her arms out to flag for help. I think I would have.

Do drivers have control over the rear window controls too?

I know that my car does and so does my husband's vehicle. Neither of us drive the same type of vehicle as MF though.

 

[PommyMommy]

Did we ever find out if MF and/or CG have a dog? Still pondering the reason for the Greenies on the dashboard... MOO

TX - TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #10

 

[Trudie]

I agree.

The wording of my post was confusing.
What I meant to say is that I don't believe that Heidi would have allowed herself to be driven anywhere with Margo unsecured in a carseat.

idk. As wee as baby M was, it would take what, two seconds to secure her? On another note, The minute the car was shifted to Drive, the auto lock feature was engaged, imo.

 

[Trudie]

Did we ever find out if MF and/or CG have a dog? Still pondering the reason for the Greenies on the dashboard... MOO

TX - TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #10

idk where but I did see mention of them having a small dog. Moo I don’t have any idea of the link

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

After reading some of the discussion in the last few pages and just trying to tie in the known info from the AA....I speculate it may have went down like this:

MF calls HB somewhere between 8:30 and 9 and states that she is in town with her baby for an appt. and would like to drop off the key(s) to HB but she can't stay and baby is sleeping in the car and I don't want to wake her by climbing 3 sets of stairs with the car seat. Can you come downstairs....I will be parked out front?

Heidi comes out with baby Margo, and MF asks Heidi to get in the back for a second because she's dropped the key and needs to find it. Just settle in the backseat for a min and peek at 'baby Luna' in the carseat under a cover (assuming there is one)... and then when Heidi is distracted with settling with Margo and doing so, she clocks Heidi over the head with an object to knock her out.

This obviously not the cause of death and I'm not sure if all of Heidi's injuries would be mentioned in the AA.

Then either she drives away...or the possible third adult in the car (driving) does. This solves the question of why Heidi didn't raise an alarm bell with her cell phone right away...

In my opinion, whatever happened must have incapacitated Heidi immediately. I don't believe for a moment that she would have driven anywhere voluntarily without that baby unsecured in a car seat, unless she was either unable to prevent it from happening, or she thought she was driving to a parking spot a few feet away.

JMO

I think there was someone behind the back seat with a ligature. Someone strong enough to handle the job, like a male. Someone else was driving. I think the door wide open VS Unlocked was done to call out the perps. See who popped up on SM, who was mouthing off. Who knew too much. Who was trying to steer the investigation in the wrong direction.
MOO.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Did we ever find out if MF and/or CG have a dog? Still pondering the reason for the Greenies on the dashboard... MOO

TX - TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #10

I'm not convinced that's what it is - I can't find one that looks quite like that in a google image search. The left-justified white text in the red section - all the text at the top, and that pickle shaped thing in the middle. I just can't match it up. It is a resealable bag, that seems apparent. The only image with a high enough resolution for me to enhance in Photoshop has a pole right in the wrong spot.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I like it. Otherwise why didn't she wind down the window and yell her head off, stick her arms out to flag for help. I think I would have.

Do drivers have control over the rear window controls too?

Yes.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Speaking of that photo - it's noteworthy that to take the trash out for the seven days between abduction and discovery, one would have to walk behind the trunk with the unmistakable odor. So there's that.