Identified! TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 Sherry Ann Jarvis

[CarlK90245]

I called Downers Grove PD and asked if they had heard from Lt. Perkins regarding the possible match to the Unidentified Decedent found in Walker County TX.

She said that on Nov 1, she got a call-in from Crime Stoppers, and contacted Lt. Perkins. He told her that WCJD's DNA was sent to Univ. of North Texas.

She she said that since there is DNA on both cases, the CODIS system should identify a match if there is one. I pointed out that although UNT is processing WCJD's DNA profile, they have not input it to CODIS.

I said that I've been told that dentals are available on both cases, and it would be an easy and quick comparison. She said that they rely on DNA , as "it is the most accurate method".

She said that she would check with Lt. Perkins to make sure that everything is in order.

But in a nutshell, they don't seem too interested in any manual checks.

 

[Mensch]

Amazing.... Physicians no longer treat the patient. They treat the lab results. LE no longer does good old fashioned investigation. They sit and do who knows what and wait for the CODIS 'ping'!
It will take a tenacious and unforgiving group seeking justice to get results and resolution to these cases. There are still families waiting for information and unfortunate victims discarded and stuck in limbo without a name. Shame on the lot of so called professionals.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Classmates.com has the 1979 yearbook for Aransas Pass High School.

Welcome to WS WingedAtrocity! Quite a bit of effort has been spent on this case, and I'm not sure what you could do from San Antonio that hasn't already been done.

The person who last spoke with WCJD reported that WCJD claimed to be from Aransas Pass / Rockport Area (i.e., near Corpus Christi). She was probably lying, but I would want to look into it nevertheless.

I'm not suggesting that you drive the 150 miles to Aransas Pass, but the one thing that I would do if I lived anywhere near there, would be to go to the local High Schools and Jr High Schools and ask them if I could browse through their 1979 and 1980 yearbooks. Classmates.com has recently started putting yearbooks on their site, but they haven't yet added any from Aransas Pass High School.

Maybe Law Enforcement already though of doing that, but if I ever was in the Corpus Christi area, I probably would do that. A couple of hours at the Aransas Pass HS would be nothing compared to the hours I've spent browsing through MP sites.

 

[CarlK90245]

Classmates.com has the 1979 yearbook for Aransas Pass High School.

Thanks. They must have just put it up. I checked a couple weeks ago and it wasn't there.

 

[CarlK90245]

Classmates.com has the 1979 yearbook for Aransas Pass High School.

I took a close look at every female in the book, and twice at the freshmen and sophmores. There were 5 or 6 that I looked at very close, but none that I think are WCJD.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Carl, what about the girl on page 110/111 (Junior Varsity Volleyball) of the yearbook, first girl kneeling, on the left? To me, she looks similar to our WCJD, you seem to be better with faces than I am....

ETA: Hmm... looking at her other photo in the book, she doesn't look as close as I thought she did.

I took a close look at every female in the book, and twice at the freshmen and sophmores. There were 5 or 6 that I looked at very close, but none that I think are WCJD.

 

[CarlK90245]

Carl, what about the girl on page 110/111 (Junior Varsity Volleyball) of the yearbook, first girl kneeling, on the left? To me, she looks similar to our WCJD, you seem to be better with faces than I am....

ETA: Hmm... looking at her other photo in the book, she doesn't look as close as I thought she did.

Yeah, I agree - The team photo looks fairly close, but the portrait is way off.

FWIW, The ones that I looked real close at were:

Sophmore Class
J..... S...... (she is also in the cafeteria photo on the adjacent page)

Freshman Class
C.... A...... (Not WCJD - She has a Classmates profile page with a "Now" photo)
R...... B......... (Wearing Glasses - Hispanic, but according to Mia, Lt. Perkins thought she might be Mexican or Asian.)
De... De.... (Not WCJD - She has a Classmates profile page with a "Now" photo)
J... H.... (Different hairstyle, but pretty close)

Lt. Perkins was talking about WCJD as passibly Asian or Hispanic. To be honest, I don't see it in the postmortem photos, expecially the color side-view. But if she is Hispanic, then R...... B......... actually looks pretty close IMO. And although there are four other Aransas Pass Alumni with the same surname in the Classmates alumni listing, she is not one of them.

 

[carbuff]

When I first saw the postmortem photo, I wondered if she could be Filipina or mixed race. I've seen Chinese women with that small receding jaw, small nose, and full mouth.

 

[CarlK90245]

When I first saw the postmortem photo, I wondered if she could be Filipina or mixed race. I've seen Chinese women with that small receding jaw, small nose, and full mouth.

I've read that anthropologists can determine Asian and Native American ancestry from the scooped shape of the posterior side of their upper incisors. I'm sure that there are other skeletal indicators in addition to that.

I wonder if Lt. Perkins has some additional info that leads him to believe that she is possibly Hispanic or Asian, or if he is going on the same gut-feel that you are.

It may be the "light brown hair" with "no evidence of color treatment", or maybe the photoshopped (I believe) hazel colored eye in the color photo that has had me thinking all along that she was purely Caucasian.

I see no hint of Hispanic or Asian in the color photo, and there is so much swelling and postmortem sagging of her face in the B&W photos that it's extremely difficult to get a sense of her overall look. The forward view facial reconstruction (done by one of the better artists who do recons) also gave no hint of anything other than pure Caucasian.

It looks like the side-view photos were taken much earlier than the forward-view photo, as her lips are much more flattened out, and the flesh on her cheeks is more sagged. I wish there was a color forward view photo available that was taken at the same time as the color side-view photo.

On my recon, I spent quite a bit of time my recon making sure that the spacing and shape of each individual facial element was right based on the forward-view B&W, and I relied primarily on the color side-view to get her overall look. But there is so much distortion in the cheeks that you would need an x-ray photo to get the true sense of her cheekbone and jawline structure. On this one, I captured fairly well my own mental image of her overall look, but I'll concede that I might be completely off on her cheeks and jawline, or even her overall look. From the three photos available, there's no way to know for sure.

 

[Mensch]

For what its worth, there was no Asian population to speak of in 1980 in or around Walker county. In the early eighty Montgomery county (borders on Walker Co) built a new jail and Administration facility. They obtained a contract from the Federal Government to house the growing population of Hispanics entering the county from Houston (to the south) and they were undocumented and clearly Mexican. Surely the people at the cafe who saw this Jane Doe would have commented on ethnicity as she would certainly have stood out as being an "outsider" so to speak. I just don't see it either

 

[carbuff]

I've read that anthropologists can determine Asian and Native American ancestry from the scooped shape of the posterior side of their upper incisors. I'm sure that there are other skeletal indicators in addition to that.

I wonder if Lt. Perkins has some additional info that leads him to believe that she is possibly Hispanic or Asian, or if he is going on the same gut-feel that you are.

It may be the "light brown hair" with "no evidence of color treatment", or maybe the photoshopped (I believe) hazel colored eye in the color photo that has had me thinking all along that she was purely Caucasian.

I see no hint of Hispanic or Asian in the color photo, and there is so much swelling and postmortem sagging of her face in the B&W photos that it's extremely difficult to get a sense of her overall look. The forward view facial reconstruction (done by one of the better artists who do recons) also gave no hint of anything other than pure Caucasian.

It looks like the side-view photos were taken much earlier than the forward-view photo, as her lips are much more flattened out, and the flesh on her cheeks is more sagged. I wish there was a color forward view photo available that was taken at the same time as the color side-view photo.

On my recon, I spent quite a bit of time my recon making sure that the spacing and shape of each individual facial element was right based on the forward-view B&W, and I relied primarily on the color side-view to get her overall look. But there is so much distortion in the cheeks that you would need an x-ray photo to get the true sense of her cheekbone and jawline structure. On this one, I captured fairly well my own mental image of her overall look, but I'll concede that I might be completely off on her cheeks and jawline, or even her overall look. From the three photos available, there's no way to know for sure.

I have a hard time even visualizing how the front and side views can belong to the same young woman, not that I'm terribly good to start with. I agree she *looks* Caucasian -- but then there's that term "passing" that's been around for a long time in African-American and Jewish communities for generations. And that's without getting into all the mixed-race possibilities. Yes, no doubt there are people who fit those generalizations, but there are also many people on the borders.

It would be interesting to know what a facial-recognition software program would return in the way of matches.

 

[CarlK90245]

For what its worth, there was no Asian population to speak of in 1980 in or around Walker county. In the early eighty Montgomery county (borders on Walker Co) built a new jail and Administration facility. They obtained a contract from the Federal Government to house the growing population of Hispanics entering the county from Houston (to the south) and they were undocumented and clearly Mexican. Surely the people at the cafe who saw this Jane Doe would have commented on ethnicity as she would certainly have stood out as being an "outsider" so to speak. I just don't see it either

I've wondered if the person in the truck stop was ever asked if WCJD spoke with a Caucasian Texan accent, or perhaps a Hispanic accent (which even within that category has many variations). I would think that Texans would recognize one of "their own" from their accent.

 

[Mensch]

I've wondered if the person in the truck stop was ever asked if WCJD spoke with a Caucasian Texan accent, or perhaps a Hispanic accent (which even within that category has many variations). I would think that Texans would recognize one of "their own" from their accent.

She spoke with at least one person there and that witness did not make any reference to her speaking with an accent or in any way unusual unless that is left out of the report which would be detrimental to solving the case. My honest opinion is that Perkins took a look at her face and made a determination on superficial findings. I would love to know if he attended the autopsy. In those small towns the detective working the case does. All I'm gonna say to that...

 

[mia g]

If I remember right Lt Perkins just got the case on 2005!!! So he wouldnt have been there for the autopsy. It was something about the shape of her eyes, that lead him to that conclusion

She spoke with at least one person there and that witness did not make any reference to her speaking with an accent or in any way unusual unless that is left out of the report which would be detrimental to solving the case. My honest opinion is that Perkins took a look at her face and made a determination on superficial findings. I would love to know if he attended the autopsy. In those small towns the detective working the case does. All I'm gonna say to that...

 

[carbuff]

For what its worth, there was no Asian population to speak of in 1980 in or around Walker county. In the early eighty Montgomery county (borders on Walker Co) built a new jail and Administration facility. They obtained a contract from the Federal Government to house the growing population of Hispanics entering the county from Houston (to the south) and they were undocumented and clearly Mexican. Surely the people at the cafe who saw this Jane Doe would have commented on ethnicity as she would certainly have stood out as being an "outsider" so to speak. I just don't see it either

Maybe not in Walker County itself, but what about all the Vietnamese fishermen/refugees after the fall of Saigon? I thought many of them settled along the Texas coast and took up shrimping.

 

[Mensch]

Maybe not in Walker County itself, but what about all the Vietnamese fishermen/refugees after the fall of Saigon? I thought many of them settled along the Texas coast and took up shrimping.

You may be right as there was at that time a large Asian population just to the south in Houston. My point in mentioning either the Hispanics or Asians is that since they were not a community there, surely someone there would have made mention of her possible ethnicity.

 

[Mensch]

If I remember right Lt Perkins just got the case on 2005!!! So he wouldnt have been there for the autopsy. It was something about the shape of her eyes, that lead him to that conclusion

Maybe he could read the conclusion of the coroner? There is no way any of us can know other than what we get from LE,witnesses and more importantly the coroner.:twocents:

 

[carbuff]

You may be right as there was at that time a large Asian population just to the south in Houston. My point in mentioning either the Hispanics or Asians is that since they were not a community there, surely someone there would have made mention of her possible ethnicity.

You would think so -- but sometimes it's surprising what people miss. Or what nobody thought to mention, or what somebody forgot to write down, or what was never made public. Spouse and I traveled for almost three weeks in Australia a few years back and because our accents aren't what you see on TV news and in the movies, nobody recognized us as American. They knew we weren't local, but they thought we were from other parts of Australia; if we had disappeared and somebody had come looking for the missing Americans, they would most likely have said they hadn't seen us.

My only point was that since she hasn't been identified, maybe looking at some less likely interpretations might open up some new possibilities.

p.s. and I don't in any way mean to criticize anybody else's approach. It was just something I wondered about.

 

[Mensch]

carbuff, you make a very valid point. I just left the NamUS site while researching a b/f. She is by any reasonable assumption a black or African American female. If any of you have time check out NYC and how the coroner has the black victims, male and female posted as white. If I limited my search to black only and did not check with what that coroner is describing as "white", then I am totally wasting my time.

I think all of these cases could use a fresh perspective. What are the chances of getting comments from the coroner's office on this Jane Doe? If they had knowledge of the assumptions being made perhaps they could clear it up?

 

[taramarie]

Carl,

I know LE seems to think that based on a preliminary check, Deborah McCall and Walker County is not the same girl, however, a new photo of Deborah was added to Charley today and I just can't shake the feeling that they are. Any further word from your contact?

Here's the link to Deborah's profile with the new photo:

http://charleyproject.org/cases/m/mccall_deborah.html