TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 5

[HiHater]

"... friend left by the back door & said “bye” to SB. She said parking is out front, Godmother said it took 2 or 3 minutes for him to leave in the truck."




That part concerns me too. It was said earlier that the back steps were all iced up. Why would the friend want to go out back when the parking is out front.

I suppose since he was drinking a lot of beer and only about 20 yrs old, he probably was going to the bathroom outside. Seems like a drunken thing to do. Still, I wonder about the timing of his coming and going. And was he driving after all of those beers?

Could he have accidentally run over the poor child ? Being a rich kid of such a young age, and being drunk, I could easily see him choosing to cover up such a tragedy instead of speaking up. IDK, just sayin...


ETA: Just read your post Belimom-- looks like we are on the same page...

I keep think of him going to the bathroom, and then baby Joshua being outside. It's disgusting. I hate to even think this, but what if the friend got curious? I'm not saying he's a sex offender or predator, but sometimes opportunity is all that's needed for someone to become one. He was drinking---judgment and inhibitions impaired most likely...JMO

 

[MsFacetious]

I think it is plausible that the friend was drunk.

Went outside and ran over something.

Put whatever he ran over in his truck.

Went and disposed of whatever he ran over.

Went home and went to sleep.

Woke up the next morning not even remembering what happened.

If a father can take his son out to the vehicle, put him in the vehicle, drive him to a parking garage and leave him in the vehicle... then get arrested and not remember he even had his son in the first place? Even after sobering up... I definitely think a family friend with no parental instincts could do the same thing.

There is a very slim chance... that a highly intoxicated person could have accidentally killed this child, then disposed of him and not even remember doing it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117376&page=4

"... friend left by the back door & said “bye” to SB. She said parking is out front, Godmother said it took 2 or 3 minutes for him to leave in the truck."

That part concerns me too. It was said earlier that the back steps were all iced up. Why would the friend want to go out back when the parking is out front.

I suppose since he was drinking a lot of beer and only about 20 yrs old, he probably was going to the bathroom outside. Seems like a drunken thing to do. Still, I wonder about the timing of his coming and going. And was he driving after all of those beers?

Could he have accidentally run over the poor child ? Being a rich kid of such a young age, and being drunk, I could easily see him choosing to cover up such a tragedy instead of speaking up. IDK, just sayin...


ETA: Just read your post Belimom-- looks like we are on the same page...

 

[Noway]

I think I got the list of who was in the house:

Josh Sr. (Joshua's dad)
Joshua (missing)
Sabrina (Joshua's mom)
D (minor child, son of Josh Sr.)
SG (godmother)
JeD (Josh Sr.'s dad)
V (JeD's girlfriend)
H (great grandfather ... JeD's dad, I assume)
Baby, 4 month old grandson of V, grandfather's girlfriend

JoshSr. does say that A (the friend) was the last one to leave before Joshua disappeared. At least that is what I heard. Made it sound like others had left.

Also, according to JoshSr., he and his dad (JeD) both watched as A left out the front door. But according to Josh Sr., A told Sabrina that he (A) had left out the back door.

I thought it was odd that A actually came into the bedroom where Sabrina was to say goodbye to her (according to Sabrina he did anyway) since later she said that she mostly only made small talk with him whenever he was there.

A also allegedly said that Joshua had come outside with him and he had to bring him back in the room where Sabrina was. And that Joshua tried to go outside with him and that he had to shut/lock the door.

Their theory is that during one of his many trips outside, he took Josh with him, went out the front and around the back and took Josh. According to Josh Sr., the godmother was sitting where she looked out the front window and said it took 2-3 minutes for A to leave.

A raises hinky meter for sure IMO.

But I'm not ready to clear the parents even after their comments to Joshua which were heartbreaking to say the least.

Earlier, Sabrina said she was handing out flyers even though she was pregnant, big, and tired because she "wanted everyone --- wanted his face out there" ... I think she wanted everyone to "see her and therefore think that put her in the clear." JMO ... I don't know.

Sabrina did try to take poly but examiner will not test pregnant women. She contacted LE on the Monday after she gave birth and was told she'd have to wait 90 days because her hormones were out of whack. She tried to get medical release but was told it was the examiner's rule (the 90 days). I used to put more stock in polygraphs. Now they're up there with search dogs who don't pick up any scent -- dead or alive.

 

[Noway]

I wish one of those women had asked them why they had the searchers meet in the backyard of their house.

Esp. if they thought for one second that A might have put Joshua outside in the backyard and come around from the front then put him in his truck.

Why have all those people trample through the area?

 

[Noway]

Didn't realize it was so late (1:45 a.m. here). Off to bed.

 

[Kat]

Radio show was a wealth of information. Noway could I capture even 1/4 of it, SB can talk as fast as BD at times lol, other times it was easier.
When asked to read the poster of missing Joshua, Sabrina reads “his eye color WAS brown”.

Friend was drinking & something about the bathroom. Bathroom was mentioned later too.

No semantics problem – she was asked several times, about her term using the word “jumped” up. Seems to stand by it, one point she said she “ran” to find him. This was asked a couple time through the show.

Josh answered that he is his fathers or his grandfather’s friend, who is 19 or 20 from a wealthy family. He had a six-pack…was downing them pretty good. He may have drank more after he left. Although he supposedly refused a poly ~ no red flags according to LE (according to Josh).

Godmother (BG) IS always around & watches the kids while they are at work.

Names were given of who was there, but not who lives there! A 4 month old baby was there.

This part is sketchy & I need to review, but I got friend left by the back door & said “bye” to SB. She said parking is out front, Godmother said it took 2 or 3 minutes for him to leave in the truck.

LE made the family leave for 6 hours, took their clothes, Josh’s clothes that he had been changed out of. The dogs were in the house & they took things they were interested in.

Regarding the bucket & tarps, a week before there was a deer and the tarp was used. Fast talking missed. Forensics not in yet???

3 Different sets of dogs – no scent of Josh out the yard, I took as outside the perimeter but not sure.

Police don’t tell them anything – forensics still out – everyone passed the poly.

Asked father how long did he know the friend: 6 to 8 years, he feels comfortable around him. SB says “no suspicions, didn’t really know him, but would smoke with him outside. Later Josh said it was common that the friend would be there over all the time & he also bought his beer as he was under age.

SB was asked if there were drugs in the home? Fast “No”, asked if you or Josh take drugs? Fast “No”.

Great Aunt Jennifer was interviewed – Host noted she spoke of Josh in past tense. She gave her opinion of SB that she always had the baby with her, he was clean, his hair was just so, name-brand clothes. Father – “Can’t say he was a bad dad.”

The parents are working on getting a donation account setup through a lawyer. They were doing searches every other Sat. but it was unclear by the mom when the last one exactly was (at least to me).

Thank you Dee! My guest haven't arrived yet so I'm still able to access internet.

Couple of thoughts:
1. Using paste tense in reference to missing child is not a good sign. Could be nothing. If it's consistently used then might be something to make a mental note of...JMHO.

2. Wonder if Godmother lives there?

3. Wonder what clothes he was changed out of? And when was he changed? Just curious. I remember picture of Joshua taken shortly before going missing and it was probably same clothes he went missing in. (at least that is what I took away from the thread that discusses that here).

4. Forensics take time. Also if there is any backlog at the labs processing evidence that will add to that time.

5. I haven't heard that LE will tell a person if they pass or fail after LDT, I cant' remember the exact particulars but this has been discussed in depth IIRC on Haleigh Cummings threads. Other threads too. Lot's of links and such on those threads explaining the LDT process and what is told to the person being tested and such...

6. LE hasn't said whether or not that this friend has taken a LDT. I'm waiting on LE comment to form an opinion about that.

7. I wonder what they plan to use donations for, PI and/or future searches?

8. Why was Godmother watching and made note of the time it took friend to get to car and leave premises? Two or three minutes isn't a long time.

It's always good to hear families talk about thier missing loved ones and telling the circumstances leading up to it because LE won't comment on open investigations like I sure wish they would. But I understand.

I still don't have a clearer picture of what happened to Joshua though.

 

[Dee10]

Thank you Dee! My guest haven't arrived yet so I'm still able to access internet.

Couple of thoughts:
1. Using paste tense in reference to missing child is not a good sign. Could be nothing. If it's consistently used then might be something to make a mental note of...JMHO.

2. Wonder if Godmother lives there?

3. Wonder what clothes he was changed out of? And when was he changed? Just curious. I remember picture of Joshua taken shortly before going missing and it was probably same clothes he went missing in. (at least that is what I took away from the thread that discusses that here).

4. Forensics take time. Also if there is any backlog at the labs processing evidence that will add to that time.

5. I haven't heard that LE will tell a person if they pass or fail after LDT, I cant' remember the exact particulars but this has been discussed in depth IIRC on Haleigh Cummings threads. Other threads too. Lot's of links and such on those threads explaining the LDT process and what is told to the person being tested and such...

6. LE hasn't said whether or not that this friend has taken a LDT. I'm waiting on LE comment to form an opinion about that.

7. I wonder what they plan to use donations for, PI and/or future searches?

8. Why was Godmother watching and made note of the time it took friend to get to car and leave premises? Two or three minutes isn't a long time.

It's always good to hear families talk about thier missing loved ones and telling the circumstances leading up to it because LE won't comment on open investigations like I sure wish they would. But I understand.

I still don't have a clearer picture of what happened to Joshua though.

I am glad you are still here :great:. I haven't had a chance to re-listen but I will really listen to the part about clothes. Your right, I believe it was said (in the press) the picture was taken that day hours earlier, will have to check the print description of what he was wearing... Maybe they took all dirty clothes. Will check.

#7. Didn't specify what the funds would be for.

#8. Godmother was on a couch facing the front window. I agree, I don't think that is a long time, maybe going to the bathroom again, he might have phoned/txted a friend from the truck or warmed it up as it was cold that night.

 

[supermom71]

But, wouldn't there be some blood or evidence in the driveway/street if this had happened?

I think it is plausible that the friend was drunk.

Went outside and ran over something.

Put whatever he ran over in his truck.

Went and disposed of whatever he ran over.

Went home and went to sleep.

Woke up the next morning not even remembering what happened.

If a father can take his son out to the vehicle, put him in the vehicle, drive him to a parking garage and leave him in the vehicle... then get arrested and not remember he even had his son in the first place? Even after sobering up... I definitely think a family friend with no parental instincts could do the same thing.

There is a very slim chance... that a highly intoxicated person could have accidentally killed this child, then disposed of him and not even remember doing it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117376&page=4

 

[HiHater]

I wish one of those women had asked them why they had the searchers meet in the backyard of their house.

Esp. if they thought for one second that A might have put Joshua outside in the backyard and come around from the front then put him in his truck.

Why have all those people trample through the area?

I really don't think that in the panic of trying to find your child your top priority is preserving a potential crime scene. Even so, they may have thought A took the baby---but they are still going to look for him just in case. It's easy for us to Monday-morning quarterback these situations, but sometimes even police and trained professionals trample through crime scenes in the heat of the moment. JMO

 

[belimom]

But, wouldn't there be some blood or evidence in the driveway/street if this had happened?

I guess it would depend on the injury? Sorry to be graphic here, but it he ran over his torso, then there may be more internal injuries/bleeding.

ETA: Now that I think about it, even if there wasn't enough blood to *see* easily, the dogs should have hit on it anyway. Again, I guess it depends on what kind of dogs they used. I wonder if some dogs can't distinguish between the scent of a person vs the scent of their bodily fluids vs the scent of a cadaver, etc.

 

[LCoastMom]

I think it is plausible that the friend was drunk.

Went outside and ran over something.

Put whatever he ran over in his truck.

Went and disposed of whatever he ran over.

Went home and went to sleep.

Woke up the next morning not even remembering what happened.

If a father can take his son out to the vehicle, put him in the vehicle, drive him to a parking garage and leave him in the vehicle... then get arrested and not remember he even had his son in the first place? Even after sobering up... I definitely think a family friend with no parental instincts could do the same thing.

There is a very slim chance... that a highly intoxicated person could have accidentally killed this child, then disposed of him and not even remember doing it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117376&page=4

How drunk would someone have to be for this to happen? Way drunk IMO - so drunk if they were in a truck and backed over a little baby - they would more then likely not even realize they had hit something/one - also there would be some evidence left in the yard/street, I would think at least, by the time the driver got out, looked and picked up whatever he hit...

More importantly if this accident happened while very drunk - at the very least he had time to sober up, and the next morning face the evidence of what he had done! His friends' baby was missing - where did he think the blood in his truck came from?

Very sad that LE spent the first four days insisting Josh wandered off (if this is what they did) and not investigate a possible abduction....

 

[MsFacetious]

But, wouldn't there be some blood or evidence in the driveway/street if this had happened?

You would think so, as generally one thinks if there is enough trauma to kill a child there should be blood.

Like in Andrew's death: http://louiselarsen.blogspot.com/2011/01/today-little-boy-was-run-over-and.html

However, there really isn't blood in a lot of these cases. Out of the 5 toddlers we have had run over in our area... only one involved a significant amount of blood. That one was a baby, a truck and a busy main 45MPH street... not a driveway.

It would totally depend on the situation... but for example, a 2 year old who was run over at the chest or abdomen, would likely be bleeding internally. Bruises/abrasions outside but no real blood.

The head may be different, even if the major damage is inside... even minor head wounds bleed a lot. It is the internal injuries though, that kill them.

I also factor in that someone will often pick up and move the child so fast that no blood is actually left where the accident occurs. This has occurred a couple of times here. Where there was a bloody nose, or bleeding from the head... but the child was moved so quickly that the blood didn't ever hit the ground.

I think the scenario in this case is highly unlikely.... However, the parents brought up the alcohol so I wanted to mention it. If someone hit Joshua, he wasn't on the ground for very long... and probably was put onto a jacket or something in the vehicle. IF there was any blood at all.

This first case is near me.


4 year old - massive internal injuries, broken bones

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4067523


There is no sign of blood in either of these situations either, I can think of several other ones as well... but these are closer to Joshua's age:


2 year old - 11 year old driver

http://www.kmph.com/Global/story.asp?S=14383269


2 year old - head trauma

http://www.cbs19.tv/Global/story.asp?S=14369854

 

[HiHater]

Earlier, Sabrina said she was handing out flyers even though she was pregnant, big, and tired because she "wanted everyone --- wanted his face out there" ... I think she wanted everyone to "see her and therefore think that put her in the clear." JMO ... I don't know.

Respectfully snipped and BBM...

If she wasn't handing out fliers, people would find something to say about that too.

 

[TxLady2]

I would think that the testing of the blood on the tarp would have been done by now. It doesn't take 2 months to find out whether it's animal or human. And I think they would know by now if it was the baby's, but I don't know how long the crime lab is backed up. Sometimes DNA testing takes weeks, even months.

 

[HiHater]

I would think that the testing of the blood on the tarp would have been done by now. It doesn't take 2 months to find out whether it's animal or human. And I think they would know by now if it was the baby's, but I don't know how long the crime lab is backed up. Sometimes DNA testing takes weeks, even months.

Does LE not have the ability to like, send certain cases tot he front of the line? A missing kid for example...life/death situation.

 

[Dee10]

Listened to the tape again:

38 min. in SB - Regarding what LE took from the home ~ "...took the clothes he was wearing right before I changed him...they took stuff when the dogs come in that the dogs were attracted to. I don't know if that is because his smell was on it, but they took alot of different stuff."

1:08 min in Father - Talking the older son ~ He had to wake him up, "he was dazed, 1/2 a sleep, he remembers playing with him & seeing A."

 

[Dee10]

I haven't given my personal thoughts regarding the interview, but I find it interesting the parents are elaborating too much without provocation in anyway regarding SB not being able to take a poly also anything they can throw out there about A IMO. This was a family friend that was often over at the house, the father himself knew him for 6 to 8 years and it must be a good friend to buy a 6 pack for underage A. BUT, the biggest thing that gets me & it also goes back to the video of them on the couch a couple weeks ago...if you think your friend abducted your child...you don't call him. You just know, he didn't call you or help search. They sat on the couch (video), calmly stating they "have suspicions" stated their reasons why, and they aren't seemly upset... (SB called him once, Dad only said A doesn't call) they have not repeatedly called him, camped on his doorstep, followed him, on LE's doorstep begging, etc. I just wanted to add my current thoughts, which are subject to change if there is new information etc. but it doesn't add up to me and I respect others point of view as they share their thoughts.

 

[HiHater]

I haven't given my personal thoughts regarding the interview, but I find it interesting the parents are elaborating too much without provocation in anyway regarding SB not being able to take a poly also anything they can throw out there about A IMO. This was a family friend that was often over at the house, the father himself knew him for 6 to 8 years and it must be a good friend to buy a 6 pack for underage A. BUT, the biggest thing that gets me & it also goes back to the video of them on the couch a couple weeks ago...if you think your friend abducted your child...you don't call him. You just know, he didn't call you or help search. They sat on the couch (video), calmly stating they "have suspicions" stated their reasons why, and they aren't seemly upset... (SB called him once, Dad only said A doesn't call) they have not repeatedly called him, camped on his doorstep, followed him, on LE's doorstep begging, etc. I just wanted to add my current thoughts, which are subject to change if there is new information etc. but it doesn't add up to me and I respect others point of view as they share their thoughts.

Without provocation? There's many instances in that interview when they are asked prompting questions, in fact it's like that throughout most of the interview. Not to mention, the host said the show was partially to dispel rumors, and there are many rumors regarding lie detectors and A. If the family was really going to throw out all they could about A, I think they would have done that from the beginning...they could have done it on national TV on Nancy Grace, on any one of the numerous local news programs they've been on, or to the newspapers. Up until now, they had been very sketchy on providing details about the family friend. IDK what changed, but something did. JMO

As far as them basically harassing the family "friend", why would they subject themselves to even more rejection and elusiveness from the one person they think knows where the baby is? LE could very well have said something to the effect of "let us handle it"...

Side note: the interview may have raised a few more questions than it answered... Where is baby Joshua!!!!!!

 

[Dee10]

Without provocation? There's many instances in that interview when they are asked prompting questions, in fact it's like that throughout most of the interview. Not to mention, the host said the show was partially to dispel rumors, and there are many rumors regarding lie detectors and A. If the family was really going to throw out all they could about A, I think they would have done that from the beginning...they could have done it on national TV on Nancy Grace, on any one of the numerous local news programs they've been on, or to the newspapers. Up until now, they had been very sketchy on providing details about the family friend. IDK what changed, but something did. JMO

As far as them basically harassing the family "friend", why would they subject themselves to even more rejection and elusiveness from the one person they think knows where the baby is? LE could very well have said something to the effect of "let us handle it"...

Side note: the interview may have raised a few more questions than it answered... Where is baby Joshua!!!!!!

Without provocation was referring to statement by father and mother regarding the lack of poly of SB only, I was not referring to the friend at this point. The father has over-explained IMO about the mother not taking a poly at other times (two videos that IIRC) and the reason why she didn't/couldn't. Reminds me of "he dost protest too much." Hope that explains my thinking better.

I am sure LE did say "let us handle this", but there is human nature that could kick in, IF you really believe you know who has your child...a hold me back kind of thing. It reminds me of the interview that was minutes before the first vigil the family initiated and the father was smoking on the front porch, many people noted how angry he seemed...yet...calm as can be that he/they suspect the friend. Anyway, I find that strange as well as the whole case.

 

[Noway]

snipped from Kat above

2. Wonder if Godmother lives there?

Not according to what I interpreted from what JD Sr. said (paraphrased ... didn't listen again to see how close my notes were to what he said)

Not a party, regular people in home. SG is always around because she is Joshie’s godmother; A is the only one who “stopped by”.