TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6

[jetsfanjohn]

Forgive my intrusion into this conversation. I know many of you have been looking into this for years while I have just become aware of it when it popped up in recent activity. I have now read all posts from thread 1 till now though I haven't had time to listen to any podcasts. I do apologize if these have been discussed before but I just have a few questions while going back and forth with the theories. The husband/family(inside circle) are always the first to be looked at - always have to work your way out. Of all the theories it rings the most true to me as of now. But a few questions keep popping into my mind each time I consider it:

1. If they made it back from the mall, why wouldn't Rachel want to drop Renee and Julie off on the way before she went home? Otherwise she would have to leave home again to take them both home. Also, Renee had a party to get ready for so why wouldn't she want dropped off on the way instead of going back with Rachel? Also, having Julie with them makes me question this a bit more.

2. Here is my question about the letter and maybe a local might be able to answer this - How often/popular would it have been to send any letters from SS? I feel like it has been pretty well established that at least the envelope went through the mail and that it was indeed sent from that location. What would the odds be that TT just happened to have a different envelope that came from that substation?

Also, thank you to the family who have taken the time to become verified and are willing to share and entertain our thoughts on the case.

Some good questions there !!

I am not sure of the geography of the area with regard to where people lived (perhaps someone with local knowledge can confirm this), but if both Renee and Julie lived between where Rachel lived and the Mall or Army/Navy store, it does make the theory that the that they got into a car with someone 'they knew and trusted' at the Mall a little bit stronger, IMO.

However, I am still of the opinion that the trip to the Army/Navy store and the Mall was uneventful and they returned back to Rachel's home in the Oldsmobile. The party Renee was to attend was still a couple of hours away at this stage, so there would have been no urgency for her to get back home at that point.

With regards to the envelope and letter, I think that any locally stamped envelope that had a date greater than 23rd December would have sufficed. The one they used just happened to have that particular location on it.

Feel free to shoot holes in these theories !!

 

[Lorenathered]

However, I am still of the opinion that the trip to the Army/Navy store and the Mall was uneventful and they returned back to Rachel's home in the Oldsmobile. The party Renee was to attend was still a couple of hours away at this stage, so there would have been no urgency for her to get back home at that point.

With regards to the envelope and letter, I think that any locally stamped envelope that had a date greater than 23rd December would have sufficed. The one they used just happened to have that particular location on it.

I guess I would need to know more about the relationship between Renee and Julie to know if they would want her around that long. I honestly can't remember back that far to what I would have thought at that age. To me, she is the biggest mystery/x-factor in all this. IMO it is pretty unlikely that she was the target as she was never intended to go so no way anyone knew of ahead of time about her. That really only leaves Rachel or Renee as the intended target to me. We know quite a bit about Rachel but I admit I know nothing about Renee but has it ever been speculated that she was the target?

With the envelope, I just keep coming back to - what are the odds he just happened to have/pick an envelope that was sent from the mall?

 

[Wishyouknew]

Personally I believe that letter was in that envelope and was mailed from SS. Personally I feel it was done so when Rachel’s car was planted there. I strongly question wether the girls ever made it to the mall. The only thing that we KNOW is they did in fact make it to the army and navy store which would have been right around the corner from the Moseley residence. I don’t know why anyone else would have mailed an envelope from SS to the house on Minot. They could have easily called or visited. Those are only opinions. I believe FWPD knows a lot more than we do. I really think they may have stopped back by Minot maybe Rachel forgot her billfold or something. And the theory of Renee and Julie staying in the car while Rachel ran in real quickly makes a lot of sense to me. A LOT!

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Raises a general question in my mind:
Has this scenario that all three returned to the Trlica home ever been positively confirmed by LE or anyone else?

According to the Gone Cold podcast an unnamed witness claims to have seen the car and the girls at the Trlica home at around 12.30pm that day.

 

[Ozoner]

According to the Gone Cold podcast an unnamed witness claims to have seen the car and the girls at the Trlica home at around 12.30pm that day.

These are the conclusions that I have drawn from this case; they are simply my opinions, so others are free to disagree:
1) The girls went to the house on Minot after visiting the army-navy store and the mall.
2)Rachel was killed at the house on Minot, and Renee and Julie were either killed there, too, or abducted from there and killed somewhere else.
3) DA and TT staged the vehicle at the mall.
4) Tommy wrote the bogus letter purporting to be from Rachel.
5) Both TT and DA were directly involved in the killing of the girls.
6) Fran knows that DA was involved and provided TT with a bogus alibi for that reason.
7) There is already enough evidence to charge both TT and DA with capital murder if the girls' remains are ever found.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

These are the conclusions that I have drawn from this case; they are simply my opinions, so others are free to disagree:
1) The girls went to the house on Minot after visiting the army-navy store and the mall.
2)Rachel was killed at the house on Minot, and Renee and Julie were either killed there, too, or abducted from there and killed somewhere else.
3) DA and TT staged the vehicle at the mall.
4) Tommy wrote the bogus letter purporting to be from Rachel.
5) Both TT and DA were directly involved in the killing of the girls.
6) Fran knows that DA was involved and provided TT with a bogus alibi for that reason.
7) There is already enough evidence to charge both TT and DA with capital murder if the girls' remains are ever found.

I would pretty much agree with all of those points.

I am speculating here, but just to add to the points above, I would suggest that the girls meeting with CJG that day (well one girl in particular) was what set of these chain of events.

I don't know if DA was involved with the actually killings, but I think she made the phone call to TT shortly after Rachel left to go to the Mall, to say thay she was going to meet CJG there.

There had been a bust up at the Bowling Alley the night before. Maybe DA was hoping to see 'Round 2' of it by phoning TT, but in fact it ended up in a far more serious situation on his return to the house.

 

[Ozoner]

I would pretty much agree with all of those points.

I am speculating here, but just to add to the points above, I would suggest that the girls meeting with CJG that day (well one girl in particular) was what set of these chain of events.

I don't know if DA was involved with the actually killings, but I think she made the phone call to TT shortly after Rachel left to go to the Mall, to say thay she was going to meet CJG there.

There had been a bust up at the Bowling Alley the night before. Maybe DA was hoping to see 'Round 2' of it by phoning TT, but in fact it ended up in a far more serious situation on his return to the house.

If DA hadn't participated in the killings, then she would have cooperated with law enforcement, if not immediately then at some point during the last 47 years.

TT may have killed Rachel on his own, but I believe that DA helped kill Renee and Julie.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

If DA hadn't participated in the killings, then she would have cooperated with law enforcement, if not immediately then at some point during the last 47 years.

TT may have killed Rachel on his own, but I believe that DA helped kill Renee and Julie.

Yes, I would agree that at the very least DA knows what happened that day and probably had some involvement, also.

From what I have read it seems RA was very suspicious of her for years, but now isn't. What/who made him back off ??

I am not one for over complicating things, the simple answer is usually the correct one, but I can't help wondering at times, if there was something going on in the immediate Arnold family in late 1974 that put the girls in harms way...but then I come back to the letter and its author !!

 

[Wishyouknew]

Yes, I would agree that at the very least DA knows what happened that day and probably had some involvement, also.

From what I have read it seems RA was very suspicious of her for years, but now isn't. What/who made him back off ??

I am not one for over complicating things, the simple answer is usually the correct one, but I can't help wondering at times, if there was something going on in the immediate Arnold family in late 1974 that put the girls in harms way...but then I come back to the letter and its author !!

My opinion is that what could have put Rachel in a bad position from the Arnold family would have been her sister. I feel the other Arnold’s have used a dead man as a ploy because he can’t defend himself. By far her sister was the one into things that could bring harm to others that maybe even tried to help her get out of a bad lifestyle. Sad.

 

[T rex]

I would pretty much agree with all of those points.

I am speculating here, but just to add to the points above, I would suggest that the girls meeting with CJG that day (well one girl in particular) was what set of these chain of events.

I don't know if DA was involved with the actually killings, but I think she made the phone call to TT shortly after Rachel left to go to the Mall, to say thay she was going to meet CJG there.

There had been a bust up at the Bowling Alley the night before. Maybe DA was hoping to see 'Round 2' of it by phoning TT, but in fact it ended up in a far more serious situation on his return to the house.

Could there have been a third party involved? Could "DJ Sam" be a key to solving this case?
I believe DJ Sam was some kind of phantom entity fabricated by DA to cover for something. Most likely phone calls made to or from the house on Minot. If my guess is right these calls would have been made to or from Houston and possibly to or from a bar. JMO.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Could there have been a third party involved? Could "DJ Sam" be a key to solving this case?
I believe DJ Sam was some kind of phantom entity fabricated by DA to cover for something. Most likely phone calls made to or from the house on Minot. If my guess is right these calls would have been made to or from Houston and possibly to or from a bar. JMO.

That could very well be. There was a man that went by that name that was in fact a DJ down there. He has since passed. From my understanding Dan James spoke with him but he’s gone as well. That’s one of the most aggravating things on this case. Everyone is passing away and we are no closer. I have a lot of questions around him as well as her ex/next boyfriend at that time. Her connections in general at that time. So many questions. I just pray fwpd has spoke with all of them.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Could there have been a third party involved? Could "DJ Sam" be a key to solving this case?
I believe DJ Sam was some kind of phantom entity fabricated by DA to cover for something. Most likely phone calls made to or from the house on Minot. If my guess is right these calls would have been made to or from Houston and possibly to or from a bar. JMO.

Wasn't there also two people staying in a R.V. at Minot at that also (I'm sure I read it somewhere ???).

Anyone have any idea who these people were (if they even existed) and who invited them to stay there ?

 

[T rex]

That could very well be. There was a man that went by that name that was in fact a DJ down there. He has since passed. From my understanding Dan James spoke with him but he’s gone as well. That’s one of the most aggravating things on this case. Everyone is passing away and we are no closer. I have a lot of questions around him as well as her ex/next boyfriend at that time. Her connections in general at that time. So many questions. I just pray fwpd has spoke with all of them.

So apparently he wasn't a phantom as I had put it. I thought from what I remember reading about this it had not been verified that any such person existed.
How much do we know about the DJ Sam account? Was it not that DA had turned him back the night after the girls went missing? If so from where, Minot or her parents house?
I still think she could be using him to cover for phone calls and possibly other activity around the house, although I doubt he was involved or she probably doesn't mention him.

Wasn't there also two people staying in a R.V. at Minot at that also (I'm sure I read it somewhere ???).

Anyone have any idea who these people were (if they even existed) and who invited them to stay there ?

Yes I've heard this too. If I'm not mistaken it was in the GC podcast.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Hi, just joined websleuths, but I have been a long time reader of the forums.

I have lots of thoughts about all I've learnt about this case, and to be honest my theories have changed quite a bit along the way. Im currently at a point where I feel this wasn't pre planned in advance, but instead hastily covered up after the fact. I also feel Renee and Julie were unfortunate to be caught up in something that was nothing to do with them. These are just moo though.

One thing though I thought odd , though maybe of little value, is why the name Rachael would be written on the top corner of the envelope the letter supposedly came in. Theres lots strange about that letter, its arrival so quick, it being posted so locally, being written in ink but the envelope in pencil, the formal address, the lack of mention of Christmas coming up, the wording overall.......
I have read many believe it was TT who wrote the letter, though why it was written still seems to be unclear. But in all different scenarios I haven't seen an answer as to why her name would be in the top corner. I'm not sure why this niggles me, but it does!

 

[TedMac]

Hi, just joined websleuths, but I have been a long time reader of the forums.

I have lots of thoughts about all I've learnt about this case, and to be honest my theories have changed quite a bit along the way. Im currently at a point where I feel this wasn't pre planned in advance, but instead hastily covered up after the fact. I also feel Renee and Julie were unfortunate to be caught up in something that was nothing to do with them. These are just moo though.

One thing though I thought odd , though maybe of little value, is why the name Rachael would be written on the top corner of the envelope the letter supposedly came in. Theres lots strange about that letter, its arrival so quick, it being posted so locally, being written in ink but the envelope in pencil, the formal address, the lack of mention of Christmas coming up, the wording overall.......
I have read many believe it was TT who wrote the letter, though why it was written still seems to be unclear. But in all different scenarios I haven't seen an answer as to why her name would be in the top corner. I'm not sure why this niggles me, but it does!

Good first post and welcome to Websleuths!

 

[Wishyouknew]

Wow web sleuths has changed it up in here! So anyone know anything about these two men? S.M. Or E.C.? Neither have been in the public eye much so I will not disclose information but if you know, you know. I have a lot of questions around timelines and such of these two.

 

[Chypre]

So apparently he wasn't a phantom as I had put it. I thought from what I remember reading about this it had not been verified that any such person existed.
How much do we know about the DJ Sam account? Was it not that DA had turned him back the night after the girls went missing? If so from where, Minot or her parents house?
I still think she could be using him to cover for phone calls and possibly other activity around the house, although I doubt he was involved or she probably doesn't mention him.




Yes I've heard this too. If I'm not mistaken it was in the GC podcast.

Interesting! I wish he was around to give his own time-line account.

 

[beubeubeu]

Was it ever mentioned or followed by, at least as far as publicly available info goes, if Rachel:
1. Ever went to or planned to go to Houston?
2. Was away for a week, in unsuspicious circumstances prior to girls disappearance?
3. Ever went somewhere and left her car in Sear's upper lot?
4. Was it a "thing" for locals to leave their cars there, parked overnight?

I just realised that there is a parking lot near I live, and cause it was free, and close to city centre and railway station, people used to leave their cars there for few days or for someone else to drive back home while they went on a trip.

Maybe that letter was no mystery at all and it was in range of normal behaviour for Rachel? Even if she never went away for a week leaving a car there, or didn't went to Houston specifically... it would only take as much as her to seriously consider it at some point, write that letter and forget about it after changing plans...

 

[Wishyouknew]

Was it ever mentioned or followed by, at least as far as publicly available info goes, if Rachel:
1. Ever went to or planned to go to Houston?
2. Was away for a week, in unsuspicious circumstances prior to girls disappearance?
3. Ever went somewhere and left her car in Sear's upper lot?
4. Was it a "thing" for locals to leave their cars there, parked overnight?

I just realised that there is a parking lot near I live, and cause it was free, and close to city centre and railway station, people used to leave their cars there for few days or for someone else to drive back home while they went on a trip.

Maybe that letter was no mystery at all and it was in range of normal behaviour for Rachel? Even if she never went away for a week leaving a car there, or didn't went to Houston specifically... it would only take as much as her to seriously consider it at some point, write that letter and forget about it after changing plans...

No to all questions. Nothing normal about the car being left in that parking lot. I’ve never heard of Rachel running off. Not from her parents or Tommy. IMO and that of a professional writing analyst willing to testify in court, Rachel did not write that letter. It is also her opinion that Tommy did in fact write it. I also agree with her on that. The question on that for me is why? Good thinking though.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Interesting! I wish he was around to give his own time-line account.

I would love to hear Tommy's first wife's account, also. I believe it was her who saw the Oldsmobile at the house at 12.30pm that day ?

If so, and the girls had actually returned from the Mall/ArmyNavy store at that point, this is where the timeline runs out for me.

I believe whatever happened to the girls occurred within the next hour or so of this sighting, JMO.