TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6

[Wishyouknew]

Not sure how productive that search would be. A steel barrel (much like most 70's era automobiles) might not be retrievable after nearly 50 years in water. Polyethylene barrels might be, although I'm not sure how prevalent those were back then. There's also the visibility issue and likelihood of locating something much smaller than a car.

Info on plastic barrels:
More advanced technology and manufacturing practices in the late 1960s allowed for another iteration of the barrel to come about: the plastic barrel. Plastic barrels are made from high density, high molecular weight polyethylene (HDPE).

I agree. There most likely would be nothing left.

 

[wdmcmahan]

I agree. There most likely would be nothing left.

Except for bones at the bottom of the lake.

 

[T rex]

What about the account that TT's first wife, Shawna I believe it is, told years later? Did she tell this to LE at the time? If she did see these three girls wouldn't it have to have been on the 23rd? What other day were they together? I can only see two possibilities, either she saw them there that day or she's just outright lying. MOO.

 

[snakefinger]

Except for bones at the bottom of the lake.

And possibly teeth if skull(s) intact. As a different perspective from what I posted earlier, and if this barrel scenario is in fact the reality, is a shoreline location most likely? Or was a boat of sufficient size available for a more remote (and deeper) location?
Also worth mentioning that there was an entirely different scenario, albeit one which still involved the barrels, that had something to do with a scrap metal facility of some sort. It was mentioned previously at some point in one of the thread sections.
There are rabbit holes weaved throughout this case. Fall down one and emerge from another.

 

[Ozoner]

And possibly teeth if skull(s) intact. As a different perspective from what I posted earlier, and if this barrel scenario is in fact the reality, is a shoreline location most likely? Or was a boat of sufficient size available for a more remote (and deeper) location?
Also worth mentioning that there was an entirely different scenario, albeit one which still involved the barrels, that had something to do with a scrap metal facility of some sort. It was mentioned previously at some point in one of the thread sections.
There are rabbit holes weaved throughout this case. Fall down one and emerge from another.

These are questions that could be asked that might be answerable if the right people can be located:
1) What company usually picked up used transmission fluid from the shop?
2) Were barrels of used transmission fluid recycled in some way or simply buried in a toxic waste landfill?
3) What was the process for melting down material at the scrap metal furnace?
4) Could sealed barrels have been melted down without being opened?

On a separate note, I think that Debra would have talked by now if she were only an accessory after the fact.

 

[beubeubeu]

Sorry for just coming with it out of nowhere, cause I haven't read the full discussion yet, but kept stumbling on this case mentioned here and there.
As for now thou, I still haven't stumble on maybe bit ridiculous thought but it keeps coming back to me every time when this thing with "Rachee" corrected to "Rachel" is mentioned.
I know about a lot of writing analysis happening with comparing Rachel's handwriting to the one in the letter - but was it ever compared to Renee's handwriting?
I always wondered - was that person writing the letter trying to keep calm while under tremendous stress (like being forced to write it) and, if it could be Renee trying to write as Rachel?

With some odd scenario like: girls met someone they knew, went somewhere, at some point Rachel got separated from them and Renee, as her friend (so as the one likely well aknowledged with her handwriting) got forced or convinced to write it (with someone saying something like: "X thing happened, Rachel had to go to the Y place, will be back after christmas, we had to help her, we will join her in a bit but to explain stuff to her family and not make them worried you (Renee) have to write this card").

If Renee's handwriting was totally different from Rachel's, then either:
a) Rachel wrote it on her own - cause with whatever reason girls indeed needed to "get away for a week",
b) Rachel got forced to write it,
c) Rachel got convinced that she has to write it to somewhat explain their absence but the message in the letter had nothing to do with - what she believed at that moment - were their actual plans,
d) letter was forged by someone with access to Rachel's handwriting,
e) text part was actually written by Rachel, at some point in the past, when "we" didn't meant her, Renee and Julie but her and someone else, and that typo in her name indicated nervousness and got thrown away by her and used by someone who well ahead planned to abduct her.

This is all far fetched, but facts here are quite strange. For me it looks like someone was hard set on kidnapping/luring Rachel somewhere on that specific day, so hard set that it didn't matter who she was with. Like with whatever reason that was the only time when it could be done and other two were too dangerous as possible whitnesses to let them go.

Sorry for sharing these likely rubbish thoughts, but I'd like to see how my theory will change as I'll learn more about the case.

 

[T rex]

Sorry for just coming with it out of nowhere, cause I haven't read the full discussion yet, but kept stumbling on this case mentioned here and there.
As for now thou, I still haven't stumble on maybe bit ridiculous thought but it keeps coming back to me every time when this thing with "Rachee" corrected to "Rachel" is mentioned.
I know about a lot of writing analysis happening with comparing Rachel's handwriting to the one in the letter - but was it ever compared to Renee's handwriting?
I always wondered - was that person writing the letter trying to keep calm while under tremendous stress (like being forced to write it) and, if it could be Renee trying to write as Rachel?

With some odd scenario like: girls met someone they knew, went somewhere, at some point Rachel got separated from them and Renee, as her friend (so as the one likely well aknowledged with her handwriting) got forced or convinced to write it (with someone saying something like: "X thing happened, Rachel had to go to the Y place, will be back after christmas, we had to help her, we will join her in a bit but to explain stuff to her family and not make them worried you (Renee) have to write this card").

If Renee's handwriting was totally different from Rachel's, then either:
a) Rachel wrote it on her own - cause with whatever reason girls indeed needed to "get away for a week",
b) Rachel got forced to write it,
c) Rachel got convinced that she has to write it to somewhat explain their absence but the message in the letter had nothing to do with - what she believed at that moment - were their actual plans,
d) letter was forged by someone with access to Rachel's handwriting,
e) text part was actually written by Rachel, at some point in the past, when "we" didn't meant her, Renee and Julie but her and someone else, and that typo in her name indicated nervousness and got thrown away by her and used by someone who well ahead planned to abduct her.

This is all far fetched, but facts here are quite strange. For me it looks like someone was hard set on kidnapping/luring Rachel somewhere on that specific day, so hard set that it didn't matter who she was with. Like with whatever reason that was the only time when it could be done and other two were too dangerous as possible whitnesses to let them go.

Sorry for sharing these likely rubbish thoughts, but I'd like to see how my theory will change as I'll learn more about the case.

If Rachel wrote it then I think it was c but I dont think she wrote it so I think it's closer to d.

 

[T rex]

And I believe the envelope could have been mailed empty because they (the perps) knew that they were going to need options.Maybe they were considering to make it look like a ransom and that's why it's formal but then realized how ridiculous that would be.

 

[Ozoner]

Sorry for just coming with it out of nowhere, cause I haven't read the full discussion yet, but kept stumbling on this case mentioned here and there.
As for now thou, I still haven't stumble on maybe bit ridiculous thought but it keeps coming back to me every time when this thing with "Rachee" corrected to "Rachel" is mentioned.
I know about a lot of writing analysis happening with comparing Rachel's handwriting to the one in the letter - but was it ever compared to Renee's handwriting?
I always wondered - was that person writing the letter trying to keep calm while under tremendous stress (like being forced to write it) and, if it could be Renee trying to write as Rachel?

With some odd scenario like: girls met someone they knew, went somewhere, at some point Rachel got separated from them and Renee, as her friend (so as the one likely well aknowledged with her handwriting) got forced or convinced to write it (with someone saying something like: "X thing happened, Rachel had to go to the Y place, will be back after christmas, we had to help her, we will join her in a bit but to explain stuff to her family and not make them worried you (Renee) have to write this card").

If Renee's handwriting was totally different from Rachel's, then either:
a) Rachel wrote it on her own - cause with whatever reason girls indeed needed to "get away for a week",
b) Rachel got forced to write it,
c) Rachel got convinced that she has to write it to somewhat explain their absence but the message in the letter had nothing to do with - what she believed at that moment - were their actual plans,
d) letter was forged by someone with access to Rachel's handwriting,
e) text part was actually written by Rachel, at some point in the past, when "we" didn't meant her, Renee and Julie but her and someone else, and that typo in her name indicated nervousness and got thrown away by her and used by someone who well ahead planned to abduct her.

This is all far fetched, but facts here are quite strange. For me it looks like someone was hard set on kidnapping/luring Rachel somewhere on that specific day, so hard set that it didn't matter who she was with. Like with whatever reason that was the only time when it could be done and other two were too dangerous as possible whitnesses to let them go.

Sorry for sharing these likely rubbish thoughts, but I'd like to see how my theory will change as I'll learn more about the case.

Few people doubt that TT wrote the letter; I consider that a closed question.

A lowercase cursive e and a lowercase cursive l are formed exactly the same way except the l is taller.

I don't think of writing Rachee as an actual misspelling; I think of it as TT being sloppy or rushing and making the l too short at first so that it resembled an e and needed to be fixed. I write in cursive and do the exact same thing from time to time when I'm rushing, sometimes making an l too short or an e too tall. It's very easy to do and in no way suggests that the writer is unsure about how to spell the word. It's a penmanship error, not a spelling error.

 

[tucson1991]

These are questions that could be asked that might be answerable if the right people can be located:
1) What company usually picked up used transmission fluid from the shop?
2) Were barrels of used transmission fluid recycled in some way or simply buried in a toxic waste landfill?
3) What was the process for melting down material at the scrap metal furnace?
4) Could sealed barrels have been melted down without being opened?

On a separate note, I think that Debra would have talked by now if she were only an accessory after the fact.

I had an auto repair business in Pennsylvania in 1974. We had a tank buried for all used oils, some garages used drums that would be siphoned out by a tank truck regularly. At that time the oil was sprayed on new dirt roadbeds to keep the dust down before the blacktop, tar & chip, or concrete top surface was applied.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

And I believe the envelope could have been mailed empty because they (the perps) knew that they were going to need options.Maybe they were considering to make it look like a ransom and that's why it's formal but then realized how ridiculous that would be.

You could be right, but my gut feeling is that the situation was not that premeditated.

What I think happened was a 'goof' was made when the letter was given to the Police, without the envelope. This resulted in a frantic search for a stamped envelope in a certain household.

I am guessing it was the only stamped envelope that could be found that had a date on it later than the 23rd December, so it had to be used, even if it was the wrong size !! It was the only mistake the perp(s) made, IMO.

Shame the envelope hadn't been torn up before it was thrown in the bin...events would have got really interesting then !!!!

 

[T rex]

You could be right, but my gut feeling is that the situation was not that premeditated.

What I think happened was a 'goof' was made when the letter was given to the Police, without the envelope. This resulted in a frantic search for a stamped envelope in a certain household.

I am guessing it was the only stamped envelope that could be found that had a date on it later than the 23rd December, so it had to be used, even if it was the wrong size !! It was the only mistake the perp(s) made, IMO.

Shame the envelope hadn't been torn up before it was thrown in the bin...events would have got really interesting then !!!!

It wouldn't have to be much more premeditated than the decision to produce a letter.
I believe everything regarding the letter was a mistake. Why not just have a call placed from a pay phone and then say Rachel called? I've never tried to get away with a crime like this so I don't know. All I can do is try to put myself in their shoes.

 

[beubeubeu]

It wouldn't have to be much more premeditated than the decision to produce a letter.
I believe everything regarding the letter was a mistake. Why not just have a call placed from a pay phone and then say Rachel called? I've never tried to get away with a crime like this so I don't know. All I can do is try to put myself in their shoes.

To have a call placed from a pay phone you'd have to have time to get to that pay phone, make a call and have someone at the right location, alone to answer it and talk for a bit. It'd be much more sophisticated action than forging a letter I guess.

 

[Wishyouknew]

There were witnesses that saw Tommy go to the mailbox and return with the letter in the envelope and watched him open it. I always questioned that myself prior to learning this information
<modsnip>

 

[jetsfanjohn]

What about the account that TT's first wife, Shawna I believe it is, told years later? Did she tell this to LE at the time? If she did see these three girls wouldn't it have to have been on the 23rd? What other day were they together? I can only see two possibilities, either she saw them there that day or she's just outright lying. MOO.

The GC Podcast also mentions a witness seeing the car parked at the house at Minot around 12.30pm on the 23rd.

I'm guessing Shawna could be that witness.

 

[Wishyouknew]

I may not know what this discussion is exactly about but just fyi, if you are adding a comment/post somewhere then (with few moderating systems I saw), where there is notification system (so info if posts are edited/deletet/replied) there is an option to "keep it for review" or something like that - that one, if choosed, authomatically or manually, keeps comment unpublished till someone will accept it without notifying author about it.
It's mostly to help avoid spam - so if there is a link, or more than one link, or some combination of words that often appear in comments left by bots. It can be also done manually by the admin by clicking that option to review it later, or happen as side effects of having a website with faulty plugins.

Sorry, just definitely not a thing to lose mind over.

I’ve been on here a while and still have operator issues. The platform to me is not the easiest to navigate. Often you may see me double post and I really don’t know why.
To answer your question yes the missingtrio website is missing. The domain is up for sale at almost 10 grand. They can keep it. If I spend 10 grand it will be to make sure that fwpd has the funding for dna work needed. It would actually cost about half of that. I think it is amazing how much everyone supports their cold case unit. There are so many families that need answers and we all deserve them.
I can’t understand how people like McCurley and others that commit crimes like this can remain in the community, and even go as far as to pretend to care for the victims families. How do you look at them and see the pain YOU inflicted and live with that for almost 50 years and allow that pain to continue. No there is nothing you can do to change what happened BUT, you can let their minds have some resolution, some sort of answers. I just wouldn’t be able to look myself in the mirror. I wouldn’t be able to be at peace with my creator. Even if you make it out of this world without it being known, God knows ALL. I’d think temporary earthly punishment would be far less that eternal damnation. Jmo

 

[Wishyouknew]

The GC Podcast also mentions a witness seeing the car parked at the house at Minot around 12.30pm on the 23rd.

I'm guessing Shawna could be that witness.

I don’t recall a witness seeing a vehicle there about 12:30. I could be wrong. Shana’s account was around that time. Maybe it was Rachel’s car because I don’t believe she mentioned any other cars in that account.

 

[T rex]

I don’t recall a witness seeing a vehicle there about 12:30. I could be wrong. Shana’s account was around that time. Maybe it was Rachel’s car because I don’t believe she mentioned any other cars in that account.

The GC Podcast also mentions a witness seeing the car parked at the house at Minot around 12.30pm on the 23rd.

I'm guessing Shawna could be that witness.

What I like about her account is it doesn't have to be one hundred percent accurate to still be of significance.

 

[Sneaker33]

I don’t recall a witness seeing a vehicle there about 12:30. I could be wrong. Shana’s account was around that time. Maybe it was Rachel’s car because I don’t believe she mentioned any other cars in that account.

I think the neighbor reported Rachel stopping while leaving because Shayna pulled up. This would have come from original FB page. I did read the private investigator Dan Jane's recently passed. There is discussion on new FB page about website status. My last impressions were it was not the "go to" place for up to date information on the case but I have not looked in quite some time. I will say for quite some time it looked neglected. That could have changed.

 

[Wishyouknew]

I think the neighbor reported Rachel stopping while leaving because Shayna pulled up. This would have come from original FB page. I did read the private investigator Dan Jane's recently passed. There is discussion on new FB page about website status. My last impressions were it was not the "go to" place for up to date information on the case but I have not looked in quite some time. I will say for quite some time it looked neglected. That could have changed.

Do you have a name or reference for the neighbor? I know Shana said Rachel was backing out when she pulled up. If there was someone to coo-berate that it would be very interesting.

What does the new FB page say about the website being down? I’m not in that group. The only group I am in when I posted the new age progression link I lost posting and commenting privileges for a month. It also has the comments turned off on the post, Why? I have no clue. Those age progressions will not be going away though. Soon you will not be able to remove the signs in your neighborhood or stop a post on FB. There will be no escaping the eyes of those three girls. I cannot wait!

Yes Dan James passed away. Not to speak I’ll of the dead but he did as much hinderance to the case as he helped. Probably more. That last bit they pulled in FB where he came in there spouting off about the girls as fact with nothing to back it up. His records are less than factual if you research them. When you are drawing up professional documents referencing your research, you do not put your reference as a friend of such and such told me so. Who is this friend? Where did this information come from? How can I prove it as FACT? Because that story if it was fact would be very interesting. He perpetuated lies and rumors. Jmo on his work. I also know he was not working this case from the beginning he did not work for Jon Swaim as he said. There are morsels of truth in his work such as the reference to an issue with another cousin of mine being sexually assaulted by Tommy and there were people at the Minot residence on the 24th that saw the letter. But the accounts in their entirety are not accurate. The letter was never seen as a partial or taped to anything. I’d love to see those medical records for Rachel he referred to and how he got them. Much of his work is contradictory of itself. God rest his soul. He obviously spent a lot of time and I’m sure money out of his pocket researching but I have a lot of questions as to his motive and his work ethic. I feel in many ways he made the mud thicker. There’s never really been water to muddy. He just added more dirt to the mud. There are some good reference points to his work though. A comment he made once about someone manufacturing and shrouding evidence always sticks out in my mind. I believe that is very true. I also believe he was guilty of this as Welles others close to the case. Again jmo on the matter.