TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6

[Sneaker33]

There was a poster on the thread previous to this one (Goldenlancehead, I think his username was) who suggested that the note was a code and the girl's disappearance was related to drugs. Someone accused the poster of being the PI Dan James and I don't think he posted again after that.

From what I can gather that particular PI's information is not reliable. I believe he was the PI who suggested that Rachel still visited the Fort Worth area each Christmas, up until the late 1990s. An idea that I would consider to be absurd.

I think people may have reported seeing her because they were thinking of her around Christmas time. She would likely not be recognizable or driving a car herself. If she was allowed to visit I would expect she would not be recognized.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I do not think that the house on Minot was ever investigated. LE fell for the disappearance from the mall hook, line, and sinker.

Yes they did, unfortunately. Even the missing girls Namus pages state that they were last seen at the Mall. I seem to recall reading on an earlier thread that the first newspaper reports of the girls disappearance did not mention the Mall.

I believe the last confirmed sighting was at the Army/Navy store but unfortunately the narrative for the last 48 years has them going missing from the Mall. This may be correct, but I feel that the idea of the girls disappearing from the Mall may be the biggest example of 'manufactured' evidence that is associated with this case.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current NamUs Exclusion List for Julie Ann Moseley, Mary Rachel Trlica, and Lisa Renee Wilson? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Jellis]

**I apologize in advance for the long post, I may should have split it up.**

Wow. I’ve spent the last several days reading every post in every thread related to this case. I had no idea it was so...complex. Bless the Mods, that’s for sure. I’m frankly surprised any of the threads are still open for discussion with the way things have gotten so carried away several times. (JMHO)

I have several thoughts and questions and like I said I’ve read every post since the beginning, but it’s possible I missed or forgot something. I’ll try not to be repetitive. Some things were hard to read through too due to so many posts having to be removed/redacted/edited. It made it hard to follow the discussion at times. It’s especially difficult when conversations or topics are being carried over here midway from another forum. I hadn’t planned on reading anything from the FB group, but I almost have to in order to get all the pieces in one place. I also plan to listen to the Gone Cold podcast series, as that seems to be the most universally approved version of events.

1) How many sets of car keys were there for the Oldsmobile, and what was the norm for that time period?

2) I remember earlier in the threads, it was said that Renee bought the gift for TT’s son. That struck me as a little odd. Anyone else? How did one of Rachel’s friends become close enough to her step son that she’d be buying him a Christmas gift? This isn’t meant to be a loaded question or accusatory, I’ve legitimately been curious about that.

3) The fact that TT claims to have not known there was a second automotive shop location, leads me to one question. When did Rachel and TT meet? How long had they known each other? Even more, he had a relation with Debra prior to that, so you think that’d be something he was privy to. Again, not suggesting anything, just questions I’ve not seen asked or answered. ETA: I see there’s still debate about the number of shops.

4) In the original MP reports posted upthread, one states that the Oldsmobile was found in the lot at 10pm on the 23rd and the other states 8:30pm. So it was found long before the letter was received. Which makes me think it was actually written and mailed before the car was found, or mailed/delivered the next morning by someone who didn’t know the car had been found. Yet again, makes the letter all that more strange. It also says to me that whoever wrote it knew the girls would be at that mall that day or knew that others who’d come looking for them knew. Otherwise, it’d just SS Mall, not a specific store’s “upper lot”.

5) Those MP reports also verify that Renee’s old pants (the ones she was wearing before the layaway pickup) were found inside the vehicle.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/a...04686237859_7780407847401029632_o-jpg.230786/
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/a...04659571195_3655195989859368960_o-jpg.230787/

6) Was in unusual for $150 in savings bonds to be kept in the car’s glove compartment? I’ve seen some say the bonds where still there when the car was retrieved and one article that states TT was asked by a psychic if $150 meant anything to him, and he responded with yes, those bonds were missing from the car. (I can’t find the link, but it’s in one of these threads)

7) Can anyone help me verify something. There has been talk of 2 sets of skeletal remains found shortly after the girls disappeared. In 1976, 3 skeletons were found in Alvord. In 1981, 2 skeletons were found in Alvin and later identified as Georgia and Brooks. This is not accurate according to records. There’s a mix up somewhere. Basically, I can’t find anything verifying the Alvord connection, except for a link to Wikipedia. I don’t consider that verification because even that info is not sourced. By all other accounts, there were only remains found in 1976 and identified (2/3) in 1981. I think CCJD posted several articles about midway through this thread, and was on the right track.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/st_04_04_1981-jpg.166689/

These are the three skeletons found in 1976, south of Houston, near Alvin. They were initially thought to be those of three young girls, then determined to be those of one young male and two young females. Upon two of their subsequent identifications (Georgia and Brooks), they once again believe the remains to be all female. Largely in part because they based one being male on the width of his hips, which turned out to be one of the identified girls. (That leads to 99 other questions, but I won’t steer too far off topic.)

SO, does that mean there is still one unidentified person from that location, or did they determine there were only two all along? The wording is quite confusing. I think the locations and number of skeletons found warrant another look if there’s a chance they could be the missing trio. And if a mistake such as gender misidentification could be made, I have to wonder what other things they could have gotten wrong.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/alvin-remains-1-jpg.166845/
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/alvin-remains-2-jpg.166846/

https://newspaperarchive.com/alvin-sun-apr-07-1981-p-1/
A major portion of a yellow garment found in the search lead investigarors to further believe the second girl was Bracewell. The original search was suspended when authorities were unable to make positive identification on the bones found in 1976. Forensic odontologist Dr. Paul Stimson, who is an expert in dental identification according to Wingo, assisted in identifying the teeth found in an area southeast of Alvin. The report was modified about a year ago. when the medical examiner's office said the remains might in fact belong to three females. (This was written after the two other missing girls were already identified)

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/e1b955e4-e723-4324-b51a-e654d010dd56-jpeg.154690/
I think this article ^^ that from December 1979 was just wrong in their math stating the skeletons were found a year and half prior. It’s referring to the same skeletons found in April 1976, 3 and a half years prior. The similarities are too exact for it to be a coincidence and not just a typo. I guess my main point is that the two girls who were identified were part of the 3 skeletons found near Alvin in 1976, just not identified until around 1981. These were the remains everyone has been thinking could be the FWMT. Meaning one, in theory, should be left unidentified. A young female.

There was also a search conducted near Alvin, at the request of Swaim and a guy from Hawaii who had a tip the girls were there, near an oil tank IIRC, but all that was found there were scattered bones determined to be animals, not human. I also can’t find the link to this article, but it is in one of the threads, at least once.

**I appreciate anyone who is willing to provide factual answers to my questions, and respect if none of them are addressed. I am in no way connected to this case or anyone involved. I found it to difficult to even form an opinion or theory as to what happened to the girls other than that they vanished without a single known trace. I simply figured a new set of unbiased eyes might help. Lord knows the girls need help.**

Also, what exactly does it mean when a member’s name is now “Deleted Member”? Does that mean they left or were made to leave for a WS violation or something of the sort? I don’t need specifics, just a general answer. TIA!

Idk about the remains found in Alvin, but a trio of remains were found is Russellville Arkansas in 1976. That’s about 8 hours away from Alvin.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

According to the Charlie Org. Project two sets of the bones were confirmed as belonging to two of the girls that went missing in Russellville. Sadly, the third body is yet to be found.

Although I am no expert on bone identification, I think the three skeletons found in Alvin in 1976could be the Fort Worth Missing Trio. If I have my facts correct, authorities believed there were there for about eighteen months which would pretty much fit the timeline.

 

[Caring1]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current NamUs Exclusion List for Julie Ann Moseley, Mary Rachel Trlica, and Lisa Renee Wilson? I would greatly appreciate it.

Julie Ann Moseley - 13 Unidentified Person Exclusions

 

[Caring1]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current NamUs Exclusion List for Julie Ann Moseley, Mary Rachel Trlica, and Lisa Renee Wilson? I would greatly appreciate it.

Mary Rachel Trlica - 21 Unidentified Person Exclusions

 

[Caring1]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current NamUs Exclusion List for Julie Ann Moseley, Mary Rachel Trlica, and Lisa Renee Wilson? I would greatly appreciate it.

Lisa Renee Wilson - 24 Unidentified Person Exclusions

 

[tilomagnet]

Yes they did, unfortunately. Even the missing girls Namus pages state that they were last seen at the Mall. I seem to recall reading on an earlier thread that the first newspaper reports of the girls disappearance did not mention the Mall.

I believe the last confirmed sighting was at the Army/Navy store but unfortunately the narrative for the last 48 years has them going missing from the Mall. This may be correct, but I feel that the idea of the girls disappearing from the Mall may be the biggest example of 'manufactured' evidence that is associated with this case.

The question whether they made it to mall at all is of course one of the crucial ones in this case. The impression I've got for example from the Gone cold podcast is that there were reported sightings, however they dont seem to be all that reliable or bullet proof. On the other hand, one of the more popular theories here is that Rachel picked up CJG to join the girls at the mall. They were spotted there by a friend of TT, who in turn called him and that is what caused him to flip when they got back to the house on Minot.

 

[Ozoner]

The question whether they made it to mall at all is of course one of the crucial ones in this case. The impression I've got for example from the Gone cold podcast is that there were reported sightings, however they dont seem to be all that reliable or bullet proof. On the other hand, one of the more popular theories here is that Rachel picked up CJG to join the girls at the mall. They were spotted there by a friend of TT, who in turn called him and that is what caused him to flip when they got back to the house on Minot.

BBM

That is the theory that I endorse unreservedly.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

The question whether they made it to mall at all is of course one of the crucial ones in this case. The impression I've got for example from the Gone cold podcast is that there were reported sightings, however they dont seem to be all that reliable or bullet proof. On the other hand, one of the more popular theories here is that Rachel picked up CJG to join the girls at the mall. They were spotted there by a friend of TT, who in turn called him and that is what caused him to flip when they got back to the house on Minot.

Yes, I would agree that the sightings at the Mall are far from completely reliable. If any are legit., I think it is the sighting in the Record Store that is the most likely as it was reported only a few days later. I think some of the other 'sightings' were reported years later.

JMO, but I would fully subscribe to the theory that Rachel planned to meet up with CJG at the Mall that day, but I think it is possible that another person residing at the house at Minot may have contacted TT about Rachel's plans, as opposed to someone who saw the at the Mall (but I can run with either).

 

[Ozoner]

Yes, I would agree that the sightings at the Mall are far from completely reliable. If any are legit., I think it is the sighting in the Record Store that is the most likely as it was reported only a few days later. I think some of the other 'sightings' were reported years later.

JMO, but I would fully subscribe to the theory that Rachel planned to meet up with CJG at the Mall that day, but I think it is possible that another person residing at the house at Minot may have contacted TT about Rachel's plans, as opposed to someone who saw the at the Mall (but I can run with either).

The alternative that you suggested is possible.

I am convinced that the girls made it to the mall and then left under their own power.

I am also convinced that they made it to the house on Minot and that Rachel's car at the mall was staged.

 

[tilomagnet]

Yes, I would agree that the sightings at the Mall are far from completely reliable. If any are legit., I think it is the sighting in the Record Store that is the most likely as it was reported only a few days later. I think some of the other 'sightings' were reported years later.

JMO, but I would fully subscribe to the theory that Rachel planned to meet up with CJG at the Mall that day, but I think it is possible that another person residing at the house at Minot may have contacted TT about Rachel's plans, as opposed to someone who saw the at the Mall (but I can run with either).

I agree.

If Rachel entered the house on Minot alone first and died during a confrontation with TT, it is baffling how this would end in a triple murder tough. TT could have claimed self defense and he probably would not have done jail time....".I caught her cheating, I confronted her, then she came at me with the knife. I hit her, she fell badly and died. it was an accident, so sorry...."

So either Rachels death needed to be covered up at any cost because TT was tangled up in the A's business via Rachel. Or the other girls witnessed the murder and it was so vicious that TT would not get off lightly and the girls needed to be silenced. Or a combination of both.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree.

If Rachel entered the house on Minot alone first and died during a confrontation with TT, it is baffling how this would end in a triple murder tough. TT could have claimed self defense and he probably would not have done jail time....".I caught her cheating, I confronted her, then she came at me with the knife. I hit her, she fell badly and died. it was an accident, so sorry...."

So either Rachels death needed to be covered up at any cost because TT was tangled up in the A's business via Rachel. Or the other girls witnessed the murder and it was so vicious that TT would not get off lightly and the girls needed to be silenced. Or a combination of both.

How often do juries buy the self-defense angle when a man beats his wife to death with his bare fists?

The scenario BBM is almost certainly the correct one, in my opinion.

 

[tilomagnet]

I say probably more did so 50 years ago than today.

 

[loveplace]

Sad to see this about Mr. Wilson.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/fort-worth/article268583702.html

 

[Ozoner]

Sad to see this about Mr. Wilson.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/fort-worth/article268583702.html

I was hoping that Mr. Wilson would live long enough to see the killer and his accomplice die by lethal injection.

I consider this line from the article very shoddy reporting:
"The Oldsmobile was found at 6 p.m. on Dec. 23, 1974, right where they left it, locked with the presents inside."

We don't know that it was "right where they left it." I think that they left it at the house on Minot and that it's presence at the mall was staging by the killer and his accomplice.

 

[loveplace]

I was hoping that Mr. Wilson would live long enough to see the killer and his accomplice die by lethal injection.

I consider this line from the article very shoddy reporting:
"The Oldsmobile was found at 6 p.m. on Dec. 23, 1974, right where they left it, locked with the presents inside."

We don't know that it was "right where they left it." I think that they left it at the house on Minot and that it's presence at the mall was staging by the killer and his accomplice.

I agree about the shoddy journalism. It seems that is becoming more and more the norm.

 

[TedMac]

I was hoping that Mr. Wilson would live long enough to see the killer and his accomplice die by lethal injection.

I consider this line from the article very shoddy reporting:
"The Oldsmobile was found at 6 p.m. on Dec. 23, 1974, right where they left it, locked with the presents inside."

We don't know that it was "right where they left it." I think that they left it at the house on Minot and that it's presence at the mall was staging by the killer and his accomplice.

If memory serves me correctly, there was only one present in the car and that was the one they picked up from layaway and it was not a store at the mall

 

[Ozoner]

If memory serves me correctly, there was only one present in the car and that was the one they picked up from layaway and it was not a store at the mall

As I recall, it was a gift hat Lisa was going to give to TT's son Shawn. I don't know whether it was picked up that day, but I do recall that she already had it prior to the trip to the mall.

I really want to know more about the scrap metal furnace in Ft. Worth. If the girls had been killed or bound and gagged and stuffed into spare steel drums at the transmission shop, could those drums have been taken to the furnace and melted down without anyone at the facility opening them? If the answer is yes, then that is probably what happened to the girls' bodies, in my opinion.

It's also possible that the girls' bodies were simply hidden in the barrels until the letter caused the FWPD to stand down, which would have provided an opportunity for the perp(s) to retrieve and bury the bodies without having to worry about being under any surveillance.