TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[Sherwood Park]

actually there was one...
https://www.facebook.com/MissingLoriLeeBerens
http://www.macp.mb.ca/results.php?id=561
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightCanada/ar/t2451.htm

she had a pic that showed her as "heavy", but she also had one as lean. She was very tall,( one report says 5'7 one says 6'0) went missing around the same time possibly of her own accord.
it has been mentioned, and she has not been ruled out.
also, someone who had taken history in Canada may know the dates of an attack on Australia since both Canada and Australia are connected by the United Kingdom. (or at least were up till the end of the 80s)

LLB is listed as being "Aboriginal" and has Brown eyes. These are not descriptions that were ever used for FLEK.

Canada and Australia are still Commonwealth countries and we share the same queen. We have no connection to the U.K., we are part of the British Commonwealth.

U.K. = England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It's one country consisting of "countries within a country".

I'd rule out LLB only because her family is able to provide DNA and if it matched FLEK's they would have said so and called off their painful search after all this time.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

maybe shes related to the Taman Shud guy His ID was never found out either...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/portrait-may-hold-key-to-somerton-man-beach-mystery/story-fni0ffnk-1226674957043

I knew when I mentioned the land of Aus someone would say she was the daughter of Somerton Man, or else Azaris Chamberlain.
Is the Broome attack as universally known in Australia as Pearl Harbor is in the U.S.?

 

[HerStory]

LLB is listed as being "Aboriginal" and has Brown eyes. These are not descriptions that were ever used for FLEK.

Canada and Australia are still Commonwealth countries and we share the same queen. We have no connection to the U.K., we are part of the British Commonwealth.

U.K. = England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It's one country consisting of "countries within a country".

I'd rule out LLB only because her family is able to provide DNA and if it matched FLEK's they would have said so and called off their painful search after all this time.

I too agree. I live kind of near where LLB went missing and am somewhat familiar with the ethnic characteristics of her and her family. Being of Aboriginal descent, her features would have been much more distinguished as she aged than FLEK. FLEK looks to be of Eastern European descent to me. IMHO

 

[kdgdid]

LLB is listed as being "Aboriginal" and has Brown eyes. These are not descriptions that were ever used for FLEK.

Canada and Australia are still Commonwealth countries and we share the same queen. We have no connection to the U.K., we are part of the British Commonwealth.

U.K. = England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It's one country consisting of "countries within a country".

I'd rule out LLB only because her family is able to provide DNA and if it matched FLEK's they would have said so and called off their painful search after all this time.[/QUOTE
LLB is listed as being Aboriginal but in her description it lists her as being fair.

There is a conversation at the beginning of Jan between the sister and another women about the sister submitting DNA to the RCMP. That DNA sample may not have anything to do with FLEK rather it maybe for the task force the RCMP has set up recently for murdered and missing Aboriginal women in Manitoba.

I think the probability of LLB and FLEK being the same person is low but there are similarities.

 

[NCSleuth]

RmW's dob is 12/29/1946. I can't remember if I found TJT's dob....but I assume that neither dates will match if RmW's does not.

How in the world did you find it, I searched everywhere.

 

[HerStory]

How in the world did you find it, I searched everywhere.

I could tell you but then you would become one of the 'Missing'

LOL I will message how, to substantiate.

 

[SherlockKittyCat]

I looked through 1/4 of findagrave's online listing for Woodbine. So far, I have about 16 names if anyone is interested in dividing and conquering?

Hi, HerStory! I know others and I did a little research, and you did a whole lotta research. Were there results? Anything pop up?

 

[HerStory]

I got about a third of the way through the list and found no recognizable instances.....

Without going through the remaining 2/3's, the theories could be:

1) she, or someone close, was personally acquainted with the Turners.
2) she was attending the cemetery to visit someone else and singled BST's marker out.
3) she was not near the cemetery when she, or an identity broker, hatched out the plan and then went there to harvest the new identity.

Makes me wonder if she at least TRIED with other identities and just seemed to get lucky with this one.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I got about a third of the way through the list and found no recognizable instances.....

Without going through the remaining 2/3's, the theories could be:

1) she, or someone close, was personally acquainted with the Turners.
2) she was attending the cemetery to visit someone else and singled BST's marker out.
3) she was not near the cemetery when she, or an identity broker, hatched out the plan and then went there to harvest the new identity.

Makes me wonder if she at least TRIED with other identities and just seemed to get lucky with this one.

Since the BST identity was used only as a cutout, my money is on #3. If you had that purpose in mind, you could go to any cemetery and find suitable candidates.And it is best to use someone who had no connection to you.
I still don't understand why no one has recognized her yet. And I wish that former boyfriend who said she had problems would say what they were.

 

[Linda9681]

LLB is listed as being "Aboriginal" and has Brown eyes. These are not descriptions that were ever used for FLEK.

Canada and Australia are still Commonwealth countries and we share the same queen. We have no connection to the U.K., we are part of the British Commonwealth.

U.K. = England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It's one country consisting of "countries within a country".

I'd rule out LLB only because her family is able to provide DNA and if it matched FLEK's they would have said so and called off their painful search after all this time.

Well, Sherwood, I certainly did not mean to offend you with my error, I appreciate the correction.
Is it possible Canadian students might study Australian war history?
Just because there is DNA available DOES NOT mean it has been tested to rule someone out. It is a long process to get that done, and the Canadian girl's family did not even submit her on missing person websites till a few years back.
After reading the FB page her cousin/sister started, it is questionable they have her DNA as they were discussing submitting their DNA to a Canadian agency ( one of the other family members is who they were talking to about this, her aunt I believe.)

She has not been ruled out.

It is entertaining to me how some missing people with BLUE eyes have even been suggested for FLEK. Brown eyes are not a stretch. I have family members who have hazel eyes. Sometimes they appear green, sometimes brown. Heck, they couldn't even get the Canadian Lori's height and weight right, look at the variations in that.

HerStory can tell us more about the Aboriginal aspect. I trust her opinion over my own in that, since she lives there and is immersed in that culture herself. ( but, you know, no offense HerStory, I would not know you are Aboriginal if you had not mentioned it. I had to research it in the beginning because I was thinking Australia Aboriginal, and was like, um no) I have zero to contribute in that area..with that being said, I would hate to rule someone out because it had not been mentioned that they fit one profile or another. We don't have the entire story because we are working the case from the outside.

I am however, playing Devil's advocate in this matter, because I do believe she fits other IDs better..my guess is we are all wrong.

 

[Linda9681]

I knew when I mentioned the land of Aus someone would say she was the daughter of Somerton Man, or else Azaris Chamberlain.
Is the Broome attack as universally known in Australia as Pearl Harbor is in the U.S.?

I was kidding...but who knows, lol. I LOVE that case! You know they finally released the nurses real name after she died. Her daughter is now trying to find out his ID! She stated in interviews her mother admitted to being a Russian spy. I love it.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I was kidding...but who knows, lol. I LOVE that case! You know they finally released the nurses real name after she died. Her daughter is now trying to find out his ID! She stated in interviews her mother admitted to being a Russian spy. I love it.

I figured you were joking.
Hate to be cynical, but I bet the daughter has a book coming out.You need at least one new angle to sell one, and "Mom was a Russian Spy" would do the trick. Could be true but real spies don't talk about it. The book could have been a way to encode/decode messages, it is actually easy and the person is not carrying anything incriminating. Nurse's real name was the worst kept secret ever. Sorry to hijack the thread.

The Australian possibility for FLEK is there, though not strong IMHO. Is there a group in Aus that could be sent pix of FLEK?

 

[Havok]

I knew when I mentioned the land of Aus someone would say she was the daughter of Somerton Man, or else Azaris Chamberlain.
Is the Broome attack as universally known in Australia as Pearl Harbor is in the U.S.?

I can't speak to whether the attack on Broome is as well know by Australians, but it is not as well know as another Japanese air raid on Australia. The Bombing of Darwin occurred on Feb 19, 1942. It is often described as the "Australian Pearl Harbor"

Not only was the Darwin Attack probably more well known (it resulted in 235 deaths as opposed to 88 for Broome) but it occurred just 1 month earlier. FLEK could have easily chosen this date as her father's DOB as it still fits nicely into her timeline.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Well, Sherwood, I certainly did not mean to offend you with my error, I appreciate the correction.
Is it possible Canadian students might study Australian war history?
Just because there is DNA available DOES NOT mean it has been tested to rule someone out. It is a long process to get that done, and the Canadian girl's family did not even submit her on missing person websites till a few years back.
After reading the FB page her cousin/sister started, it is questionable they have her DNA as they were discussing submitting their DNA to a Canadian agency ( one of the other family members is who they were talking to about this, her aunt I believe.)

She has not been ruled out.

It is entertaining to me how some missing people with BLUE eyes have even been suggested for FLEK. Brown eyes are not a stretch. I have family members who have hazel eyes. Sometimes they appear green, sometimes brown. Heck, they couldn't even get the Canadian Lori's height and weight right, look at the variations in that.

HerStory can tell us more about the Aboriginal aspect. I trust her opinion over my own in that, since she lives there and is immersed in that culture herself. ( but, you know, no offense HerStory, I would not know you are Aboriginal if you had not mentioned it. I had to research it in the beginning because I was thinking Australia Aboriginal, and was like, um no) I have zero to contribute in that area..with that being said, I would hate to rule someone out because it had not been mentioned that they fit one profile or another. We don't have the entire story because we are working the case from the outside.

I am however, playing Devil's advocate in this matter, because I do believe she fits other IDs better..my guess is we are all wrong.

You're correct about variations in the stats, that really baffles me sometimes, but I realize that it can be difficult for some families to give correct and exact numbers. 5'7, 6'0 feet, really depends on the persons perception of the other's height. People think I'm 6'0, I'm not, I'm 5'10.

Eye colour is the one that gets me. I can see grey/blue because they can sometimes be the same. But there's a huge difference between brown and grey. Hazel eyes are crazy eyes 'cause they change colours all the time!! I have hazel eyed relatives and it's pretty funny, you never know what colour eyes they will have when you see them. No need for contacts

"Aboriginal" was not in use when the Canadian Lori went missing, so that must be something that was added within the past few years.

 

[kdgdid]

You're correct about variations in the stats, that really baffles me sometimes, but I realize that it can be difficult for some families to give correct and exact numbers. 5'7, 6'0 feet, really depends on the persons perception of the other's height. People think I'm 6'0, I'm not, I'm 5'10.

Eye colour is the one that gets me. I can see grey/blue because they can sometimes be the same. But there's a huge difference between brown and grey. Hazel eyes are crazy eyes 'cause they change colours all the time!! I have hazel eyed relatives and it's pretty funny, you never know what colour eyes they will have when you see them. No need for contacts

"Aboriginal" was not in use when the Canadian Lori went missing, so that must be something that was added within the past few years.

In the younger picture of LLB it says she has a fair/light complexion.
My mother was also from the area that LLB went missing from.
My maternal grandfather was Metis my mother had dark hair, hazel eyes and a medium complexion and I have red hair and green eyes. Being considered to have native heritage is about culture not always about looks.

 

[shadowdancer]

I think its very possible that FLEK wasn't American. I am from the UK and I am considering emigrating. I am thinking New Zealand or Canada. Australia is too hot and I was told not to bother with the USA as it is more difficult to get permanent residence and/or citizenship.

It got me thinking about FLEK. After all, somebody wanting to avoid deportation in their future life, just needs to do what FLEK did, and then hello you magically become an American citizen.

 

[kdgdid]

I think its very possible that FLEK wasn't American. I am from the UK and I am considering emigrating. I am thinking New Zealand or Canada. Australia is too hot and I was told not to bother with the USA as it is more difficult to get permanent residence and/or citizenship.

It got me thinking about FLEK. After all, somebody wanting to avoid deportation in their future life, just needs to do what FLEK did, and then hello you magically become an American citizen.

It also should be noted that when these ladies were teens and or young adults often times LE would not make a report as they were considered run aways or left on their own.

In LLB's case it has been only in the last couple of years that LE even became involved. The missing poster for her on the Winnipeg Police site was created in 2011.

 

[shadowdancer]

This one probably isn't FLEK but I will post anyway. I don't think it is impossible that she could look like FLEK, especially if any kind of cosmetic surgery was involved.

She is tall, age and timeline could fit and it is believed that she may have travelled abroad (so she must have had a passport with her). I just couldn't resist posting her.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1286dfdeu.html

 

[Sherwood Park]

In the younger picture of LLB it says she has a fair/light complexion.
My mother was also from the area that LLB went missing from.
My maternal grandfather was Metis my mother had dark hair, hazel eyes and a medium complexion and I have red hair and green eyes. Being considered to have native heritage is about culture not always about looks.

Thanks KDGDID. I didn't really want to delve into a discussion about Native/Metis/Aboriginal.
Missing Aboriginal women is a complex topic and not one I want to get into.My main point is that FLEK was never listed as being Aboriginal or having brown eyes. So in this context, complexion, hair, eye colour, height, etc. are important.

 

[Redwood146]

I think its very possible that FLEK wasn't American. I am from the UK and I am considering emigrating. I am thinking New Zealand or Canada. Australia is too hot and I was told not to bother with the USA as it is more difficult to get permanent residence and/or citizenship.

It got me thinking about FLEK. After all, somebody wanting to avoid deportation in their future life, just needs to do what FLEK did, and then hello you magically become an American citizen.

Its funny you should mention that FLEK maybe have come from another country - her face sure looks familiar from the l mid to late 1980s early 1990s I have wondered if she was connected to a Polytech or university in the lower north island in New Zealand? I want to say nursing student but that is just a guess and I doubt that we could get hold of class lists of nursing students for those students. By the way shadowdancer I think you should migrate to New Zealand lol.