Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

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LifeIsAMystery said:
nypost.com

Bayesian superyacht victims were trapped alive when ship went down, died of ‘dry drowning’: report

None of the four victims — whose autopsies were done — had water in their lungs, trachea, or stomach.
nypost.com nypost.com
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OMG, that is just heartbreaking. :(

I apologize for my musings about the accuracy of early reporting they were huddled together with a final air pocket. They were. And to think of the hydrostatic pressure on their ears as they descended to 50M is simply unimaginable.
 
Dotta said:
:(

https://twitter.com/x/status/1831441288937300292
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Just when you thought this couldn't get anymore tragic...

A couple of points. Firstly, there's a disparity between the Mail's version of this story and the NY Post's. The Mail says that the Morvillo's drowned, but the NY Post says that all four suffocated.

Secondly, the Mail have revealed that it was Angela Bacares herself who went back down to try and warn the other passengers after she went up top and realised how dangerous the situation was. I'm becoming more convinced that the crew are going to end up being found negilgent here. If the crew knew that the yacht was in trouble and told the owner so when she went up on deck to talk to them, why on earth hadn't one of the crew already been told to go down and wake the passengers!
 
Yellowbelly said:
Just when you thought this couldn't get anymore tragic...

A couple of points. Firstly, there's a disparity between the Mail's version of this story and the NY Post's. The Mail says that the Morvillo's drowned, but the NY Post says that all four suffocated.

Secondly, the Mail have revealed that it was Angela Bacares herself who went back down to try and warn the other passengers after she went up top and realised how dangerous the situation was. I'm becoming more convinced that the crew are going to end up being found negilgent here. If the crew knew that the yacht was in trouble and told the owner so when she went up on deck to talk to them, why on earth hadn't one of the crew already been told to go down and wake the passengers!
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I keep changing my opinion after reading all the articles - that it sounds like the crew and captain could be found not guilty of negligence and that the sinking could be determined as an Act of God with the freak weather that took place. Hope the inquiry doesn't take too long.
I have no experience with sailing whatsoever so my opinion is not from a knowledgeable view.
 
Yellowbelly said:
Secondly, the Mail have revealed that it was Angela Bacares herself who went back down to try and warn the other passengers after she went up top and realised how dangerous the situation was. I'm becoming more convinced that the crew are going to end up being found negilgent here. If the crew knew that the yacht was in trouble and told the owner so when she went up on deck to talk to them, why on earth hadn't one of the crew already been told to go down and wake the passengers!
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RSBM
I was going to take a break from this case for my emotional health. The last moments of these souls haunts me.

But your post brought be back @Yellowbelly to say I agree. And perhaps these autopsy results and additional reporting of the events have heightened my anger towards the crew, warranted or not.

Why didn't the crew take the warnings of possible violent storms (as we confirmed here) seriously enough to anchor in a protected cove? They were 1/2 mile off the coast, and possibly sitting ducks to violent storms.

Why did the Watchman wait until winds were 20 knots (23 mph) before waking the captain? Especially given the stark alerts about possible violent storms with the cold front that was in the region, clashing with warm air and water.

Why didn't the crew immediately prioritize getting below deck passengers up to the Saloon? Three or four crew should have been immediately ordered to go below deck and help people up the stairs as glass broke and the yacht yawed.

Why wasn't the keel dropped? Or the anchor pulled? Or the engines started to gain control (presuming these are true)

Yes, the storm was a freak, but it was forewarned, at least for 18 August. And yes, the time was limited to respond to the event, but did the captain and crew prioritize their actions correctly?

So I agree, I think there is culpability. But I believe from what I've read, that this will take years to sort out. The Conception case in the U.S. I posted earlier occurred 2019 but the Captain was not sentenced to prison until 2024.

IMO.
 
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RedHaus said:
RSBM
I was going to take a break from this case for my emotional health. The last moments of these souls haunts me.

But your post brought be back @Yellowbelly to say I agree. And perhaps these autopsy results and additional reporting of the events have heightened my anger towards the crew, warranted or not.

Why didn't the crew take the warnings of possible violent storms (as we confirmed here) seriously enough to anchor in a protected cove? They were 1/2 mile off the coast, and possibly sitting ducks to violent storms.

Why did the Watchman wait until winds were 20 knots (23 mph) before waking the captain? Especially given the stark alerts about possible violent storms given the cold front that was in the region, clashing with warm air and water.

Why didn't the crew immediately prioritize getting below deck passengers up to the Saloon? Three or four crew should have been immediately ordered to go below deck and help people up the stairs as glass broke and the yacht yawed.

Why wasn't the keel dropped? Or the anchor pulled? Or the engines started to gain control (presuming these are true)

Yes, the storm was a freak, but it was forewarned, at least for 18 August. And yes, the time was limited to respond to the event, but did the captain and crew prioritize their actions correctly?

So I agree, I think there is culpability. But I believe from what I've read, that this will take years to sort out. The Conception case in the U.S. I posted earlier occurred 2019 but the Captain was not sentenced to prison until 2024.

IMO.
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Yes, Yes and Yes!

Thanks for this post!

Do you read my mind?
 
As the boat went down, Mr and Mrs Bloomer were said to have suffocated as oxygen ran out, and not drowned, La Repubblica reported.

Their post-mortems, along with those of Mr Morvillo and his wife, were said to have found no water in their lungs, suggesting they died as their cabins filled with carbon dioxide and ran out of oxygen. [...]

There were no signs of injuries to the four victims examined so far, La Repubblica added. [...]

The remaining post-mortems, on Mr Lynch, his daughter, and Mr Thomas, will be carried out on Friday [...]


more to read at link, including purported quotes from the captain
Bayesian superyacht sinking: Banking boss and wife 'suffocated in air bubble as oxygen ran out'
 
RedHaus said:
RSBM
I was going to take a break from this case for my emotional health. The last moments of these souls haunts me.

But your post brought be back @Yellowbelly to say I agree. And perhaps these autopsy results and additional reporting of the events have heightened my anger towards the crew, warranted or not.

Why didn't the crew take the warnings of possible violent storms (as we confirmed here) seriously enough to anchor in a protected cove? They were 1/2 mile off the coast, and possibly sitting ducks to violent storms.

Why did the Watchman wait until winds were 20 knots (23 mph) before waking the captain? Especially given the stark alerts about possible violent storms with the cold front that was in the region, clashing with warm air and water.

Why didn't the crew immediately prioritize getting below deck passengers up to the Saloon? Three or four crew should have been immediately ordered to go below deck and help people up the stairs as glass broke and the yacht yawed.

Why wasn't the keel dropped? Or the anchor pulled? Or the engines started to gain control (presuming these are true)

Yes, the storm was a freak, but it was forewarned, at least for 18 August. And yes, the time was limited to respond to the event, but did the captain and crew prioritize their actions correctly?

So I agree, I think there is culpability. But I believe from what I've read, that this will take years to sort out. The Conception case in the U.S. I posted earlier occurred 2019 but the Captain was not sentenced to prison until 2024.

IMO.
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I'm more angry with the ship designer for making such a vulnerable vessel. The crew made mistakes but I don't think anyone realized how quickly things would go from bad to deadly. I just think as a baseline vessels like that shouldn't sink in less than hour unless there's been some kind of collision and that's probably what the crew was thinking too...that things couldn't get so bad so quickly. I don't consider the the vessel a true seagoing vessel given how that initial downflooding happens at around 30 degrees and critical downflooding happens at around 45 degrees and along with that very quickly making the passenger compartment inescapable.

I have been reading other forums on it and I do find it interesting how there's a general idea that there somehow shouldn't be more regulation on it in part because there's few of these vessels made so the regulations are a waste of money and also because people onboard consented to getting on a vulnerable vessel. I think regulations are important because then you get yourself into a slippery slope when you start saying billionaire ships should be laissez faire as you can just keep down and down the economic ladder when instead all vessels should be made safe on principle. Also like with the Titan, I don't think Lynch and in particular Lynch's friends would be capable of given informed consent, like I doubt the lawyer who suffocated had any idea whatsoever about the ship's stability book and what it meant so those people need to be protected as they can't reasonably understand the risks they are taking on.
 
<modsnip - quoted post, response removed for no source>

I'll share this CNN article about the autopsies that adds two additional key points worth noting here.

1. "Toxicology results on the seven victims are expected in the coming days. No alcohol or drug tests were carried out on any of the crew members..."

2. "All seven victims were scanned for injuries last Saturday, which found none had suffered broken bones or other physical injuries that might have contributed to their deaths."

IMO
 
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branmuffin said:
Do we know how many days they were into this cruise? I can't recall whether it was mentioned.
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Day 5 is my memory. But I can't source that. It stood out because it seemed a long time to be on the yacht before they had the "big" celebration. Unless some folks had just joined them and they were waiting for them to celebrate. Of course this could all just be fiction reported by tabloids.

ET fix grammar.
 
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<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
The passengers might have been drinking but the crew shouldn't have been. It would have been in breach of the international convention which sets the rules for seafarers. Bayesian was a British flagged boat, so the British version of the rules is here. The level of alcohol in the breath is actually 10 microgrammes less than the UK drink drive limit. Basically, one drink will put you over.

 
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SpanishInquisition said:
This gives some information on the voyage, which started in Rotterdam:
www.dailymail.co.uk

Mike Lynch's superyacht sailed across Europe before doomed final stop

British tech tycoon Mike Lynch's award-winning luxury superyacht roamed around Europe's warm waters for days on its way to her doomed final stop in Sicily.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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That is a really long sailing voyage. Seems to be about 2,620 nm, from what I can find.
I would say at least a couple of weeks. Ports.com says about 8-10 days for a cargo ship. And I think that is sailing day and night. No stops. The Bayesian would have needed to stop and refuel and resupply.

imo
 
RedHaus said:
<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

I'll share this CNN article about the autopsies that adds two additional key points worth noting here.

1. "Toxicology results on the seven victims are expected in the coming days. No alcohol or drug tests were carried out on any of the crew members..."

2. "All seven victims were scanned for injuries last Saturday, which found none had suffered broken bones or other physical injuries that might have contributed to their deaths."

IMO
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That is too bad about no drug or alcohol tests for the crew. I had wondered if impairment could have been part of the reason for failure to react to the worsening situation.
 
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<modsnip - quoted post was removed for unsourced info>

RedHaus said:
Day 5 is my memory. But I can't source that. It stood out because it seemed a long time to be on the yacht before they had the "big" celebration. Unless some folks had just joined them and they were waiting for them to celebrate. Of course this could all just be fiction reported by tabloids.

ET fix grammar.
Click to expand...

And I had the impression that the entire cruise itself was "the party", i.e., not that there was a particular day or evening with a party but that the group as a whole was "celebrating" by having a trip (a week? 10 days?) on a luxury vessel.

Completely my opinion.
 
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vls12345 said:
And I had the impression that the entire cruise itself was "the party", i.e., not that there was a particular day or evening with a party but that the group as a whole was "celebrating" by having a trip (a week? 10 days?) on a luxury vessel.

Completely my opinion.
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Barbecue or something like that perhaps
 
Yellowbelly said:
The passengers might have been drinking but the crew shouldn't have been. It would have been in breach of the international convention which sets the rules for seafarers. Bayesian was a British flagged boat, so the British version of the rules is here. The level of alcohol in the breath is actually 10 microgrammes less than the UK drink drive limit. Basically, one drink will put you over.

Click to expand...
It won’t have been under British maritime law as wasn’t the Bayesian registered elsewhere?
ETA: just looked as I couldn’t remember it was indeed registered in the UK, so under British maritime law.
 
Ruthbullock said:
It won’t have been under British maritime law as wasn’t the Bayesian registered elsewhere?
ETA: just looked as I couldn’t remember it was indeed registered in the UK, so under British maritime law.
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The law only applies after doing a deep dive if the ship/yacht/boat is being driven, not if docked/ parked somewhere- then only the people on watch should be under the alcohol level, whilst on watch. The captain can be found ,if drunk, that the alcohol was an aggravating factor if an accident occurs. But as none of the crew were tested it’s never going to be relevant in this case, although the knowledge of how drunk the passengers were and how well the crew reacted due to that will be a factor that is considered I’m sure. If the yacht was registered in Italy- none of that applies as you and the crew are allowed to drink on yachts- a little loophole in their laws
 
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