TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[annemc2]

Fire occurred on 12/29/71 - a Wednesday

Oh and if you're looking for sketchy death cert. stuff, check out the abbreviation for Washington state used throughout.

Apparently the only entity that uses that abbreviation is the United States Coast Guard.

 

[lollygag]

I don't think we have any confirmation about a FLEK nose Job... Just speculation. Maybe I missed it, though.

 

[mjak]

Some concerns noted in the image below:

- Variation in name
- Variation in date of birth
- Unknown time of death despite the victim having died in a fire with three survivors
- Buried a day and a half after death assuming a night time fire

At the very least, the variations in date of birth and name would have contributed to the SSA issuance of the Social Security Number - they simply didn't know Becky Sue Turner had died.

The other noted concerns speak to to the possibility that the victims could potentially be someone else.

It also lists the occupation as INFANT. a two year old is not an infant.

 

[mjak]

ok a few things...
FLEK does resemble the dad, but to me not so much the sister... we have to be careful about look alikes..remember how much she looked like Bud chynoweth( and his whole fam)

Normally I would agree with this sentiment but in this case I think there are two very good arguments while this particular resemblance is significant and warrants further investigation. Lori Ruff held on to the documents connecting her to Becky Sue Turner. She not only held on to them she had them in her lock box. Thus, she valued them. Since the premis we were given was that she stole this ID and used it briefly as a stepping stone to getting her Lori Kennedy ID I found it curious she held on to these documents. As not only do they tie her to a crime, Identify theft but she should have no emotional nor functional reason to have kept them. The second reason is that she di,d whether fraudulently or not ID herself at one time as BST. Thus, to see an actual resemblance to BST father is remarkable and I think is deserving of more than a casual look alike categorization. The question is how do we look further into this.

 

[marse]

Normally I would agree with this sentiment but in this case I think there are two very good arguments while this particular resemblance is significant and warrants further investigation. Lori Ruff held on to the documents connecting her to Becky Sue Turner. She not only held on to them she had them in her lock box. Thus, she valued them. Since the premis we were given was that she stole this ID and used it briefly as a stepping stone to getting her Lori Kennedy ID I found it curious she held on to these documents. As not only do they tie her to a crime, Identify theft but she should have no emotional nor functional reason to have kept them. The second reason is that she di,d whether fraudulently or not ID herself at one time as BST. Thus, to see an actual resemblance to BST father is remarkable and I think is deserving of more than a casual look alike categorization. The question is how do we look further into this.

Functionally, she could have been called on to present proof of identity at some point and would have needed the original birth cert as well as the proof of legal name change. But I do agree that her holding onto it in this way, inside a lockbox, suggests it was more meaningful to her. An identity thief wouldn't necessarily tied to an identity the way it appears Lori was. To me, that has to be on account of emotion.

Perhaps someone ought to contact the SSA investigator with a description of the renewed interest in BST's famly: Joseph.Velling@ssa.gov

Velling himself states he thinks FLEK stumbled across the grave when purposefully scouting for an identity to assume. This belief could have biased his line of questioning with the family of BST.

There is a four year gap between children in the Turner family. Ann Marie was born in 1963. The surviving child Terri was born in 1967. The subsequent deceased children were born in 1968 and 1969. Why a 4 year gap? What happened during this time?

There are a ton of possibilities including the chance that a still teenage Rosemary gave birth to another child that is unaccounted for (ie. adoption). Terry Turner, should he have been a serviceman, may have been overseas in Vietnam or stationed at any number of military bases, where fathering a child would not be out of the realm of possibility. They may not have even ever been married or cohabitating at the time of the firstborn, and discontinued their relationship for that period of time. We know that after the fire, at some point, they split and Rosemary remarried. Terry appears to have had two more children after the split that, to me, look similar to FLEK.

Worthy of more investigation, I reckon.

 

[True Crime Gal]

ok a few things...
{snip}
THE FUNERAL DIRECTORS LAST NAME IS BAKER. my heart just skipped a bit.
( like the bakers who live in Idaho??!!)
{snip}

I thought the family in ID was Barker, not Baker?

tcg

 

[Sherwood Park]

ok a few things...
FLEK does resemble the dad, but to me not so much the sister... we have to be careful about look alikes..remember how much she looked like Bud chynoweth( and his whole fam)


remember FLEK did have a nose job, so comparing noses is out.

THE FUNERAL DIRECTORS LAST NAME IS BAKER. my heart just skipped a bit.
( like the bakers who live in Idaho??!!)
I do agree that it is strange she would leave BSTs id stuff to find,but no other info...it adds to leaning that she was a Turner or close to them..

It would have been disrespectful to the family to indicate anything back then, and they had already been through enough.





---Protestant: Protestant families ordinarily arrange funerals to meet the wishes of the deceased and his or her family. Nevertheless, funerals usually occur within three days following death, although some individual ethnic and cultural groups may take a longer or shorter time before the funeral.

Roman Catholic: The second day after the death, the family holds a wake celebrating the life of the deceased. On the third day following a death, either a funeral service is celebrated alone or as a funeral mass. A
Bottom Line: Unless family members are coming to the funeral from very distant places, ordinarily, it is held within three days after a death for most Christians and within less than five days for Buddhists. Muslims, Jews, and Hindus hold the funeral as soon as possible after death.

The LDS family criminal connection was quite extreme and there was absolutely nothing to suggest a possible connection to FLEK.

There was no documentation that said she had a nose job.

Idaho last name was Barker

If investigators thought there was something suspicious about the fire and the deaths even in 1971 they would have still done a criminal investigation. There are documented cases where investigators suspected, investigated and discovered foul play even back then.

The information about funeral/burial timelines for Protestants and Roman Catholics are inaccurate. Families are scattered around the globe, people don't rush to have funerals and burials in this day and age. A lot has advanced in the area of preserving the deceased. There is no longer a rush to bury the departed.

It would be best if the Turner family could partake in being asked further questions about family members etc. and be asked if they are willing to do a proper DNA test. The tragedy of loosing three children in such a manner is horrifying, but for the sake of the young Ruff daughter, it would be great for her to get some answers for when she is older and it might help her father to heal if he at least knew something factual about his late wife.

 

[Linda9681]

Fire occurred on 12/29/71 - a Wednesday

Oh and if you're looking for sketchy death cert. stuff, check out the abbreviation for Washington state used throughout.

Apparently the only entity that uses that abbreviation is the United States Coast Guard.

good catch!!

 

[Linda9681]

I don't think we have any confirmation about a FLEK nose Job... Just speculation. Maybe I missed it, though.

I believe it was stated by the investigator and or the author of the Seattle times article. She also had breast implants and a dental plate, so cant compare those either

 

[Linda9681]

It also lists the occupation as INFANT. a two year old is not an infant.

actually, airlines and Disneyworld called my 2.5 yr old an infant.( which was great, since you dont have to pay for an infant for park tickets or meals..) Three is the official age to become "toddler" in their eyes. to me, however, infant is more like birth to age 1... wonder what the official cut off is with a corner. I can ask around.

 

[Linda9681]

sorry for the barker/baker error. I was going by the post that was up the page where someone asked what the last name was and someone replied baker. I should have confirmed. Thanks!

 

[Linda9681]

Can someone start a new thread with " FLEK really IS BST" so we have a separate thread to post research on this topic? I think it deserves its own space at this point

 

[SideKick]

checking the California birth index for Becky (Beckie) (Rebecca Sue Turner or Weber does not come up. During all my years searching for adoptee's I check this index. Bakersfield CA .... Note CA is not mentioned on the Live Birth Reg.... Just Flower Street and name of hospital .... Whoopee


I also checked for Ann Marie.... Was she born in CA?
Go ahead and give it a try... Maybe I did something wrong but she should be there.


http://www.californiabirthindex.org

 

[SideKick]

I'm pretty sure Rosemary was the mother of all four girls. Ann was born in 1962/63 in Auburn, Wa. I believe the surviving daughter was born near Bakersfield in 1967. Kay Francis was born in Puyallup, Wa in 1968 and BST was born back in Bakersfield, Ca in 1969. The coming and going from Washington and California likely has to do with the location of the extended family and sources of support - Terry's mother was residing near Bakersfield. I believe he was in the Armed Forces and of course this was the Vietnam War era.

As for the fire cause....donno.

Something to note. BST's mother was 16/17 at the time of the eldest childs birth. Then there was a 4/5 year break between children. It's possible there was another child born prior to 1963, or in the interim period, or even one out of wedlock. It wasn't unheard of for a child in this sort of situation to be given up for adoption or cared for by another.

If FLEK is actually related, then this type scenario would explain her uncanny resemblance, as well as the family's inability to recognize her as an adult.

Good post!

 

[TechWriter797]

It also lists the occupation as INFANT. a two year old is not an infant.

Legally, anyone under the age of 18 is an "infant."

 

[Linda9681]

directly quoted from ClaireNC:
Miscellaneous facts about FLEK/Jane Doe and general information on the case:
• She claimed she was 18 in 1988. She probably was older than that — in her mid-twenties, perhaps (Seattle Times)
• Told doctors in 2005 that she was 35 – investigators this she was “much older than that … born sometime between 1960 and 1968.” (Fox News)
• She was tall, about 5'10"
• She did not speak with any discernible accent.
• She was in Boise at some point in 1988
• She had a PO box in Boulder City, Nevada in the late 1980s
• She had very long hands, and said she had been a hand model
• She may have had a nose job at some point
• She had breast implants
• She was very religious
• She was a vegetarian
• She may have had ADHD, OCD, or Tourette's Syndrome
• She said she loved Cuban food
• Claimed to have suffered from bulimia
• Was a dancer at a Dallas-area nightclub when she was attending college (Fox News)
• Had a miscarriage when trying to conceive a baby with husband
• Had student loans, filed for bankruptcy (1990’s)
• Investigators believe she came from the Pacific Northwest or West Coast.
• Had one of the genes associated with coronary artery disease, per DNA tests
• Was an unusually private person
• Was aggressive about telling people it was “none of your business” when asked about her past.
• Claimed she was the only child of a failed stockbroker and his wife, who both died.
• Boyfriend from 1990’s said she had “more problems than he could deal with.”
• Was extremely protective of her baby
• Widely speculated in the WS community that she might have Marfan syndrome. Correlates with genetic marker for heart disease, height, large hand size and mental health issues.
• They did check her computer (it was asked during the live chat). Velling, the SSA investigator said: "We were given the computers by the family and we did an extensive search of the hard drives with no evidence found to her previous life." http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...-in-live-chat/
• “There was no autopsy done at the time of death because the cause of death was a gun shot to the head. We were able to get DNA because the mortuary provided some hair and skin samples. No dental records were run.” http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...-in-live-chat/

Locations and Addresses:
(Becky Sue was born in Bakersfield, California in 1969, Died in house fire in Fife, Washington in 1971, was living in Tacoma, Washington at time of death, buried in Puyallup, Washington.)

Late 1980’s, Had a PO Box in Boulder City, Nevada

June 1988, Idaho ID card, address listed as 7101 El Caballa, Boise, Idaho 83704, the correct spelling for the address is El Caballo Dr.

July 1988, Application for Lori Kennedy Social Security number. 6102 Mockingbird #191, Dallas, Texas 75214

March 1990, Passport application - 6266 Melody Lane Apt 3079, Dallas, Texas 75231 (Same address used on GED test)

1996/1997 Application for Federal Student Aid: PO Box 810, Euless, TX 76039 817-355-0747

Before 2003, Texas Driver’s License expiration date 7/18/07, 2436 Harwood Rd, 387, Bedford, TX 76021

2003? Resume - 1978 Oak Creek Lane #16, Bedford, Texas 76022, Home: 817-685-8401, Cell: 817-715-8578, email csengineer2002@yahoo.com

According to her resume she worked in Arlington (2002/2003), Irving (2000-2002), Dallas (1999-2000), Colleyville (1998), Grand Prairie (1998), and Fort Worth (1992-1998), Texas

Claimed she was from Scottsdale, AZ per obituary http://www.tributes.com/show/Lori-Erica-Ruff-90422740 and http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/new...43#fbLoggedOut


Found on Ancestry.com the following addresses for Lori E. Kennedy with DOB 7/18/69:

3146 Hudnall St., Dallas, Texas 75235
14400 Statler Blvd, Fort Worth, Tx 76155
2436 Harwood Rd. Apt. 387, Bedford, Texas 76021

This one comes back as a business when googled:
Lori E. Kennedy (DOB July 1969) 1111 W. Airport #147, Irving, Texas 75062 (phone number 355-0747)

then it lists:
200 Bear Creek Dr. Apt. 219, Euless, TX 76039 (1995)
P.O. Box 543344 #219, Dallas, TX 75354
3901 Oakridge Ct. Apt. 3815, Fort Worth, TX 76155 (1993)
P.O. Box 810, Euless, Texas 76039 (1995)


Main sources: Seattle Times http://seattletimes.com/html/localpa...nejanedoe.html and http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...anedoexml.html, Fox News article http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/26...#ixzz2XO3tUz2T


oh, and there was no autopsy...and that was with a gunshot to the head... autopsy is NOT routine.

reference for burials:

http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/13/1848333/how-different-religions-bury-their.html

it could be the hurry in burial was due to the upcoming holiday weekend as the fire occurred between Christmas and New Year's..


- nothing in the original article about the fire mentioned suspected foul play or an investigation.

 

[annemc2]

I always thought this was a good explanation for the speculation that she had a nose job and for the odd appearance of her nose (brought over from "Did FLEK change her entire appearance" thread)

It's possible that she had a deviated septum reconstruction and not tip construction. There would be 3 distinct marks on the bridge of her nose from where they break bone. (where your glasses sit naturally). those scars do fade unless it's a bad job.

She looks like she had her nose thinned and "picked" at the tip healing, which would cause it to go to the side. Or she took a splint off too soon after surgery. It takes 1 full year for a nose job to heal.

 

[alllads]

checking the California birth index for Becky (Beckie) (Rebecca Sue Turner or Weber does not come up. During all my years searching for adoptee's I check this index. Bakersfield CA .... Note CA is not mentioned on the Live Birth Reg.... Just Flower Street and name of hospital .... Whoopee


I also checked for Ann Marie.... Was she born in CA?
Go ahead and give it a try... Maybe I did something wrong but she should be there.


http://www.californiabirthindex.org

I've just checked again, all is fine? I'm using California Birth Index on Ancestry.

Name: Becky S Turner
Birth Date: 18 Jul 1969
Gender: Female
Mother's Maiden Name: Weber
Birth County: Kern

The other child born in California was Terri Jo, the surviving daughter. Her record comes up too, no problems. In Terri's, mother's maiden name is misspelled or mus-trascribed as Webber, but this is nothing unusual.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

checking the California birth index for Becky (Beckie) (Rebecca Sue Turner or Weber does not come up. During all my years searching for adoptee's I check this index. Bakersfield CA .... Note CA is not mentioned on the Live Birth Reg.... Just Flower Street and name of hospital .... Whoopee


I also checked for Ann Marie.... Was she born in CA?
Go ahead and give it a try... Maybe I did something wrong but she should be there.


http://www.californiabirthindex.org

Thanks for the link. I didn't know that existed. It is under Becky with a y.


http://www.californiabirthindex.org/birth/becky_s_turner_born_1969_10776423

 

[shadowdancer]

Some more thoughts -

How common is that coronary artery disease gene?

Do we know if any of BST's relatives have died as a result of this condition?