TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Gardener1850]

The marriage certificate, which can be found here for free---> https://dentontx.search.kofile.com/48121/Home/Index/6 doesn't state the name of the church but lists the name and address of the reverend who performed the ceremony.

Whoa. I don't know how I missed this before. They got their marriage LICENSE in Denton County, but they actually got married in Collin County. I didn't know you could actually get married in a different county from where you got your license. The pastor on the license is listed at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Farmersville, Collin County, Texas: http://www.churchfinder.com/churches/tx/farmersville/bethlehem-baptist-church
So I wonder if anyone from this church knows them or how they know the pastor that married them? Supposedly they had a private ceremony without any family present. I really want to hear from all the former pastors Lori had contact with. IME, it's unlikely a Southern Baptist pastor would marry a couple without requiring them to go through pre-marital counseling or without knowing them really well first.

 

[Gardener1850]

Interestingly, Lori's property didn't exactly go through probate. One of their neighbors, who was also the pastor giving them marriage counseling, provided a document "AFFIDAVIT OF HEIRSHIP" in Fannin County TX. Apparently, this type of affidavit is used to avoid probate. There are various forms that can be found on the web to use for this, but the document filed was not a form exactly, but was a typed list of claims being attested to. It can be found here:

https://www.texaslandrecords.com/txlr/TxlrApp/index.jsp

Info on Texas Affidavit of Heirship:

"A Texas Affidavit of Heirship is a simple form used to transfer property instead of going through probate when a person dies without a will. The Texas Affidavit of Heirship is the instrument of choice when all heirs agree to not probate the will"

http://heirship.com/2009/10/texas-affidavit-of-heirship.html

Interesting, could the non-standard probate filing have anything to do with there being lawyers in the Ruff family? They probably know all the methods to keep a property out of probate. IANAL, so IDK.

 

[bears10]

The marriage certificate, which can be found here for free---> https://dentontx.search.kofile.com/48121/Home/Index/6 doesn't state the name of the church but lists the name and address of the reverend who performed the ceremony.

Also, it says her place of birth is Bakersfield. I'm not married yet so I am not sure what documents you need in order to get a marriage license, but is it correct to assume she needed her birth certificate? Otherwise I would think she would have put Scottsdale as her birth place. If she needed to provide her birth certificate she would obviously have to provide the name change documents. If this is the case, it seems so strange that Blake did not notice. My best friend just applied for her marriage license last week and both her and her future hubby had to be there in person, but this is in NJ not TX.

JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

Also, it says her place of birth is Bakersfield. I'm not married yet so I am not sure what documents you need in order to get a marriage license, but is it correct to assume she needed her birth certificate? Otherwise I would think she would have put Scottsdale as her birth place. If she needed to provide her birth certificate she would obviously have to provide the name change documents. If this is the case, it seems so strange that Blake did not notice. My best friend just applied for her marriage license last week and both her and her future hubby had to be there in person, but this is in NJ not TX.

JMO

When I got married I didn't need my birth certificate, just a photo ID and a signature that all info I provided was correct to the best of my knowledge. I even realized after we got the license and were married for a while I had put the wrong county for my birth (I never lived in the city where I was born and I thought it was in the same county as my hometown). So I guess out-of-state county officials never check these things to see if someone is giving correct info. It IS strange that Blake never mentioned Lori saying she was born in Bakersfield. I think they would have to both be there in person and sign together but maybe TX is different (I didn't know you could get married in a different county from where you got the license)? Maybe she told him she was born in Bakersfield but raised in Scottsdale and he forgot that detail?

 

[bears10]

When I got married I didn't need my birth certificate, just a photo ID and a signature that all info I provided was correct to the best of my knowledge. I even realized after we got the license and were married for a while I had put the wrong county for my birth (I never lived in the city where I was born and I thought it was in the same county as my hometown). So I guess out-of-state county officials never check these things to see if someone is giving correct info. It IS strange that Blake never mentioned Lori saying she was born in Bakersfield. I think they would have to both be there in person and sign together but maybe TX is different (I didn't know you could get married in a different county from where you got the license)? Maybe she told him she was born in Bakersfield but raised in Scottsdale and he forgot that detail?

I did a quick Google search and it doesn't seem like you need to bring your birth certificate in TX unless you're under 18 which seems about right. I guess I just think it's weird she'd put Bakersfield since she clearly hid everything about her real and fake past. But since Blake apparently wasn't one to really question, he might not have even noticed. She could have had him fill out the application first, and then once the actual certificate was ready, she could have picked it up and put it away somewhere for safe keeping without him even seeing it. Or like you said, she also very well could have said she was born in Bakersfield. I know it's a really trivial detail but it struck me as odd.

 

[Gardener1850]

The marriage certificate, which can be found here for free---> https://dentontx.search.kofile.com/48121/Home/Index/6 doesn't state the name of the church but lists the name and address of the reverend who performed the ceremony.

It is also interesting that they got their license on Dec 31, 2003. New Years Eve. January 5th is a Monday. Odd day to choose to get married. I wonder if they planned to get married on New Years Eve but plans fell through and January 5th was their back up to use the license before it expired?

ETA: Nevermind, I just re-read and the license says they CANNOT get married for 72-hours after getting the license unless one of them is a member of the armed forces (deploying) or they have a court order. They had 30 days to get married after getting the license so Monday January 5th still seems like an odd day to choose, IMO.

 

[SavetheQueen]

I think the addresses are helpful in a number of ways. Someone who lived at or managed one of the complexes at the same time as Lori could read this post and remember her or confirm she didn't live at that location. The locations also point out patterns. She lived in large complexes and moved often, this would allow her to live anomalously. As pointed out in previous threads Lori used a few addresses that were just a number or two off from a legitimate address, used mail boxes that didn't exist or spelled the name of the city incorrectly. This could point to a grifter technique to disguise her actual location. She may not have lived in some of the apartments, but used them because they had open mail room areas where she could rummage through unclaimed mail and pick out her correspondence. Also, she had three PO Boxes in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that we know of and a mail drop in NV. Lori was very interested in mail.

I think that the addresses show patterns of living, and of behaviors. Also, excellent point on what the apartments are when she lived there vs. now.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

 

[Gardener1850]

I did a quick Google search and it doesn't seem like you need to bring your birth certificate in TX unless you're under 18 which seems about right. I guess I just think it's weird she'd put Bakersfield since she clearly hid everything about her real and fake past. But since Blake apparently wasn't one to really question, he might not have even noticed. She could have had him fill out the application first, and then once the actual certificate was ready, she could have picked it up and put it away somewhere for safe keeping without him even seeing it. Or like you said, she also very well could have said she was born in Bakersfield. I know it's a really trivial detail but it struck me as odd.

Well I think it's an important detail. I guess some men are not so observant. It may have been easy for her to bat her eyes and distract him and do just like you said--being in love, maybe he never noticed her place of birth was even written there on the form.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Whoa. I don't know how I missed this before. They got their marriage LICENSE in Denton County, but they actually got married in Collin County. I didn't know you could actually get married in a different county from where you got your license. The pastor on the license is listed at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Farmersville, Collin County, Texas: http://www.churchfinder.com/churches/tx/farmersville/bethlehem-baptist-church
So I wonder if anyone from this church knows them or how they know the pastor that married them? Supposedly they had a private ceremony without any family present. I really want to hear from all the former pastors Lori had contact with. IME, it's unlikely a Southern Baptist pastor would marry a couple without requiring them to go through pre-marital counseling or without knowing them really well first.

Marriage license in Texas can be obtained after a 3 day waiting period (which can be waived by a court official such as a judge at his/her discretion, but almost always only in cases such as active duty military orders, etc.). After it's obtained, it can be used anywhere in the state. It goes back to the issuing county for filing. Anyone with legal authority can perform the ceremony.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

 

[milkymama]

It is also interesting that they got their license on Dec 31, 2003. New Years Eve. January 5th is a Monday. Odd day to choose to get married. I wonder if they planned to get married on New Years Eve but plans fell through and January 5th was their back up to use the license before it expired?

ETA: Nevermind, I just re-read and the license says they CANNOT get married for 72-hours after getting the license unless one of them is a member of the armed forces (deploying) or they have a court order. They had 30 days to get married after getting the license so Monday January 5th still seems like an odd day to choose, IMO.

I'm sure this didn't do much to endear her to her in laws.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Also, it says her place of birth is Bakersfield. I'm not married yet so I am not sure what documents you need in order to get a marriage license, but is it correct to assume she needed her birth certificate? Otherwise I would think she would have put Scottsdale as her birth place. If she needed to provide her birth certificate she would obviously have to provide the name change documents. If this is the case, it seems so strange that Blake did not notice. My best friend just applied for her marriage license last week and both her and her future hubby had to be there in person, but this is in NJ not TX.

JMO

Good catch. And good question. You need your driver's license and social security card to get a marriage license in most counties in Texas. Some counties do require a birth certificate. It's the County Clerk's discretion. Requirements can be found posted on each County's website.

If Denton County required a birth certificate, then she would have to have the name change documents to show the chain back to the BST birth certificate.

This brings up another question for me. When she did her name change from BST to LEK, did paperwork go back to the California Bureau of Vital Statics (or similar name) to change it on the birth certificate? I don't know the degree of technicalities on name changes 30 years ago, but today, there are several different layers to how far down things are changed depending on the person's circumstances and reason for name change.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm sure this didn't do much to endear her to her in laws.

I agree.
I wonder which order it happened though--did they just elope or did they announce they were getting married and received criticism so they just eloped? I guess it doesn't really matter, but it does color the statements we have from the Ruffs about Lori if they were not approving of the marriage from the beginning. We really need to hear more about her from non family who knew her!

 

[milkymama]

Good catch. And good question. You need your driver's license and social security card to get a marriage license in most counties in Texas. Some counties do require a birth certificate. It's the County Clerk's discretion. Requirements can be found posted on each County's website.

If Denton County required a birth certificate, then she would have to have the name change documents to show the chain back to the BST birth certificate.

This brings up another question for me. When she did her name change from BST to LEK, did paperwork go back to the California Bureau of Vital Statics (or similar name) to change it on the birth certificate? I don't know the degree of technicalities on name changes 30 years ago, but today, there are several different layers to how far down things are changed depending on the person's circumstances and reason for name change.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

She most likely did not go back and change it in CA. It is still listed under the name of BST according to ancestry. It would have been too risky and unnecessary for her to do that anyway.

Edited as I realized you meant automatic notification. The court order gave her the legal right to change the bc. Based on that verbiage being in there, it sounds like it was left up to her discretion.

 

[bears10]

Good catch. And good question. You need your driver's license and social security card to get a marriage license in most counties in Texas. Some counties do require a birth certificate. It's the County Clerk's discretion. Requirements can be found posted on each County's website.

If Denton County required a birth certificate, then she would have to have the name change documents to show the chain back to the BST birth certificate.

This brings up another question for me. When she did her name change from BST to LEK, did paperwork go back to the California Bureau of Vital Statics (or similar name) to change it on the birth certificate? I don't know the degree of technicalities on name changes 30 years ago, but today, there are several different layers to how far down things are changed depending on the person's circumstances and reason for name change.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

Thanks for the info! I checked out the Denton County website and it says you need "proof of identity and age (Driver's License, State Identification card, or other document issued by this state or another state, United States or a foreign country, or certified copy of applicants birth certificate)". http://dentoncounty.com/Departments/County-Clerk/Marriage-License-Information.aspx

I would assume that over time, if anything, requirements would become stricter, so she probably did not need to show her birth certificate back in 2003 as long as she had other proof of identity and age.

Also, very good question about the Cali Bureau of Statistics. Something tells me that things were wayyy more lax back then, in a time when the internet and computers weren't such a huge part of every day life. Wish I could answer your question.. maybe someone else can give insight.

 

[milkymama]

If you're interested, go here and search for Lori Kennedy. I am trying to figure out if the item from 1994 is "THE" Lori. It's actually derived from a criminal case from 1991.

http://countyclerkrecords.co.collin.tx.us/webinquiry/docsearch.aspx

 

[milkymama]

There are also some interesting records here, particularly a DBA name filing in 1997. A Lori Kennedy filed to do business as Kennedy Lori, basically reverting her last name to first name and vice versa for a "Business" purpose of some kind. Unfortunately, the actual document image is unavailable.

https://roamdallaspropertyrecords.com/

There are other LKs listed also, and at least one is definitely not "The" Lori, but some or all of the rest may or may not be.

 

[Gardener1850]

Good catch. And good question. You need your driver's license and social security card to get a marriage license in most counties in Texas. Some counties do require a birth certificate. It's the County Clerk's discretion. Requirements can be found posted on each County's website.

If Denton County required a birth certificate, then she would have to have the name change documents to show the chain back to the BST birth certificate.

This brings up another question for me. When she did her name change from BST to LEK, did paperwork go back to the California Bureau of Vital Statics (or similar name) to change it on the birth certificate? I don't know the degree of technicalities on name changes 30 years ago, but today, there are several different layers to how far down things are changed depending on the person's circumstances and reason for name change.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise stated. *

Thanks for the info! I checked out the Denton County website and it says you need "proof of identity and age (Driver's License, State Identification card, or other document issued by this state or another state, United States or a foreign country, or certified copy of applicants birth certificate)". http://dentoncounty.com/Departments/County-Clerk/Marriage-License-Information.aspx

I would assume that over time, if anything, requirements would become stricter, so she probably did not need to show her birth certificate back in 2003 as long as she had other proof of identity and age.

Also, very good question about the Cali Bureau of Statistics. Something tells me that things were wayyy more lax back then, in a time when the internet and computers weren't such a huge part of every day life. Wish I could answer your question.. maybe someone else can give insight.

This brings up a question for me--has anyone tried getting BST's birth record today to compare it to the one Lori had?
I do wonder if it was ever amended to say Lori. I also wonder if it has been flagged so others cannot try to use it for a similar scam. I know today they are much more strict about who can get birth certificates but was it ever applied for by the investigators (Either Velling or the PI) after Lori's death? Or did Velling just accept that the BST BC she had was legit? (I think it was legit but I would still like to compare it to a newly sent-for copy).

 

[Gardener1850]

If you're interested, go here and search for Lori Kennedy. I am trying to figure out if the item from 1994 is "THE" Lori. It's actually derived from a criminal case from 1991.

http://countyclerkrecords.co.collin.tx.us/webinquiry/docsearch.aspx

Interesting. What is the criminal case in 1991?

 

[bears10]

This brings up a question for me--has anyone tried getting BST's birth record today to compare it to the one Lori had?
I do wonder if it was ever amended to say Lori. I also wonder if it has been flagged so others cannot try to use it for a similar scam. I know today they are much more strict about who can get birth certificates but was it ever applied for by the investigators (Either Velling or the PI) after Lori's death? Or did Velling just accept that the BST BC she had was legit? (I think it was legit but I would still like to compare it to a newly sent-for copy).

FWIW my original birth certificate was issued in the late 80s, but in the early 2000s I needed a new copy because the original was really tattered. They look COMPLETELY different. All of my info is the same though. So even if a new copy was requested, it would likely look very different than the original, which could make the original seem fake. IMO the BST birth certificate found in the lock box was legit but that's just me going off my intuition.

 

[milkymama]

Interesting. What is the criminal case in 1991?

I don't know yet. I'm still trying to find the details on the 1991 case.