TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[SavetheQueen]

I will admit I haven't read every page of this thread. But I've followed the case for a while. Like all of you I've spent some time looking at all the paperwork, the phone numbers, the addresses, etc. However, I think this all comes down to some basics.

1. Why did she pick that little girl from 1971? More to the point, how did LEK even know that girl died? I can conceive of only two ways in the pre-Internet age of 1988. The first choice: Either LEK knew the little girl died because LEK lived in Bakersfield where BST was originally born and saw it in the papers as a little girl when the news spread back to that area OR LEK lived near Fife, WA when the fire happened and heard about it in the same way there. Because, frankly, a little girl dying in a fire isn't exactly national news. And let's say LEK was 8 years old at the time. How many 8 years old follow news? However, an 8 year old might hear something that adults are talking about, especially if it's local story OR the story is about a family who used to live in the area. And LEK might've remembered that story in 1988 when she decided to change identities.
The second choice: As an adult, LEK decided she wanted to change identities and spent HOURS going to a library, scanning microfiche for an appropriate identity she could steal. Now, if she was trying to "run away" from something or someone due to fear, at some point wouldn't the other person get a little suspicious that LEK was spending a lot of time at the library or in some unknown place? An abusive husband. A pimp. A drug dealer. It just stretches the imagination a bit.
Granted, I realize the possibility of an "identity broker" has been mentioned. But this reveals the same problem. An identity broker doesn't have anymore knowledge about deaths in the USA than the average person. This broker would have to do the same amount of searching to find an appropriate identity to steal. And somehow this broker finds a story that's 17 years old from an obscure town in WA that had a population of 1500 at the time? To make it easy, wouldn't a broker simply look in the big newspapers--NY Times, LA Times, Wash Post, etc. for the death of a baby or youngster? I can't imagine the death of the real Becky Sue Turner made news in any big newspaper anywhere.
Thus, my bet is that LEK knew about the death of the real BST because she heard the story firsthand as a child, either being in Bakersfield or near Fife at the time. Her lack of an accent would support the theory.

2. I'm wondering why she kept that paperwork. Let me get this right: LEK goes through great pains to avoid talking about her past, even ticking off her husband and in-laws in the process. BUT, her identity theft evidence was only a locked drawer away with the orders to NEVER try to open it? The way I am, that would've only made me want to open the drawer more. But in any case, her behavior seems inconsistent. Why not burn everything if her past needed to remain a mystery forever? It's hard to understand. I'm wondering . . . was she planning to change her identity back to Becky Sue Turner at some point? Maybe even more accurately, was she going to use that old paperwork to change her identity again to something new--thinking she might have complications if she used her Lori Erica Ruff identity? I wonder.

3. As far as all the phone numbers, addresses, etc., that nobody has gotten anywhere with it after a few years tells me that it's probably just the scribblings of a woman who was losing her mind. None of the people at those phone numbers or addresses recognize her or knew her. None of the info can be connected to each other. In fact, can we even be sure that LEK wrote all the words and numbers on that page? I'm sure a handwriting expert has already checked it but still . . . many of those letters and numbers look different from word to word to me. Likewise, there is stuff from Denver, LA, AZ, Dallas, and wherever else--all on one piece of paper. Who keeps one piece of paper for all that? Was it all done in one day or over the course of a week? A month? A year? Well, nobody knows. Or even what year it would be. Was it before she changed identities or after? It all feels like a wild goose chase to me. That it's all so jumbled together with phone numbers and words running into other numbers and words tells me that this was done at a time when her mind was starting to leave her, once again putting the helpfulness of any of it in doubt.

4. I'd like to know what her interests were. Yes, people can hide their past but nobody has a strong enough mind to cover up everything. Did she root for any professional teams? What kind of music did she like? She may have had no accent but certain words are particular to certain areas of the USA. Soda or pop? Hoagie or sub? Where I'm originally from, people used the term "red up" to mean "make a room neat." Did her husband notice she had some talents for which there was no explanation? Gardening? Painting? A musical instrument? What kind of food did she like to cook? All of these things can tell A LOT about a person because they are so subconscious that we don't even think about them. LEK would've been the same way.

5. One peculiar thing is how her teeth got so separated as she got older. My eyes tell me she had braces as a kid or had some extensive cosmetic dental work done before she became Becky Sue Turner in 1988. And her teeth were pretty good for a long time. Then that one picture with the hat . . . her teeth are separated as if she never had straight teeth at all. I'm wondering if there is some disease that would cause that. Me? I never had braces or work done and my teeth have remained the same way for the last 30 years. Not LEK's. Is there some nationality or ethnicity that is more susceptible to some kind of disease that changes the configuration of a person's jaw? Is there a genetic makeup that's more prone to that? That might also be helpful in narrowing done her nationality. Also, maybe someone should pony up a couple bucks for her DNA to be traced to find out what her ancestry is. Has that been done yet?

6. As far as her losing her mind, I've convinced myself that happened because a person can only keep secrets for so long before the wiring starts going bad. Thus, I don't believe she's some kind of escaped insane asylum patient.

Excellent points, and great questions. Thanks for posting this.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Mmeclh]

Oh gosh. I hope I'm doing this right.

Here goes; I've been following these threads for about 4 months now. I find Lori's story to be so compelling.

I'm in total awe of all of you. You guys are all so smart.

I just wanted to share a posting that I stumbled across on Reddit. I don't believe it's been shared here before (sorry if it has.) The posting was from 2 days ago and about an unrelated and tragic quadruple murder in Austin. A poster commented a bit randomly and off topic that she knows the Ruff family and that Lori's niece was her bestfriend in college. She did also respond to another commentator and clarify that she never met Lori herself.

It's definitely a longshot, and maybe nothing but maybe one of you intrepid sleuthers with a Reddit account could try messaging her with any questions. Even though she never met Lori herself, perhaps she's heard the opinions of the Ruff family. Maybe the niece has spoken about her. Maybe she has a little bit of insider knowledge.

I don't have a Reddit account and I'm definitely too chicken to even attempt making contact. I'd probably muck it up. This is for the professionals 😳😳. I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone finds it interesting.

I don't know how to insert screenshots but here's the link.
https://m.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/52dp33/austin_yogurt_shop_murders/

Scroll down to find the revelant poster. Her screen name is MishDishDishMish.

Once again this my first post and I hope I haven't committed any faux pas. My apologizes in advance if I've broken any rules.

You guys rock!

 

[ClayBertrand]

Have people looked through Bakersfield high school year books?

 

[sunnynz]

Oh gosh. I hope I'm doing this right.

Here goes; I've been following these threads for about 4 months now. I find Lori's story to be so compelling.

I'm in total awe of all of you. You guys are all so smart.

I just wanted to share a posting that I stumbled across on Reddit. I don't believe it's been shared here before (sorry if it has.) The posting was from 2 days ago and about an unrelated and tragic quadruple murder in Austin. A poster commented a bit randomly and off topic that she knows the Ruff family and that Lori's niece was her bestfriend in college. She did also respond to another commentator and clarify that she never met Lori herself.

It's definitely a longshot, and maybe nothing but maybe one of you intrepid sleuthers with a Reddit account could try messaging her with any questions. Even though she never met Lori herself, perhaps she's heard the opinions of the Ruff family. Maybe the niece has spoken about her. Maybe she has a little bit of insider knowledge.

I don't have a Reddit account and I'm definitely too chicken to even attempt making contact. I'd probably muck it up. This is for the professionals ����. I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone finds it interesting.

I don't know how to insert screenshots but here's the link.
https://m.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/52dp33/austin_yogurt_shop_murders/

Scroll down to find the revelant poster. Her screen name is MishDishDishMish.

Once again this my first post and I hope I haven't committed any faux pas. My apologizes in advance if I've broken any rules.

You guys rock!

Thank you for sharing this. I am not on reddit and never really understood how it works so I'm not the right person to do this. Hoping someone else here will pick this up and get in touch with the user to ask if she knows any more details. Googled her username and she posts A LOT on unsolved mystery/true crime type threads so she might be a bit of a kindred spirit and happy to help us

 

[sunnynz]

Have people looked through Bakersfield high school year books?

Good idea. There is a sub forum on yearbook searches but I did a search for Bakersfield in it and it doesn't look like people have. There are a lot of high schools in Bakersfield when I just checked on wikipedia so it's a daunting task - I'm happy to take a couple and check on classmates (I might start with Bakersfield HS and Centennial HS), anyone else have a classmates login and happy to do some searching?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_High_School_District

 

[NDMagoo]

3. As far as all the phone numbers, addresses, etc., that nobody has gotten anywhere with it after a few years tells me that it's probably just the scribblings of a woman who was losing her mind. None of the people at those phone numbers or addresses recognize her or knew her. None of the info can be connected to each other. In fact, can we even be sure that LEK wrote all the words and numbers on that page? I'm sure a handwriting expert has already checked it but still . . . many of those letters and numbers look different from word to word to me. Likewise, there is stuff from Denver, LA, AZ, Dallas, and wherever else--all on one piece of paper. Who keeps one piece of paper for all that? Was it all done in one day or over the course of a week? A month? A year? Well, nobody knows. Or even what year it would be. Was it before she changed identities or after? It all feels like a wild goose chase to me. That it's all so jumbled together with phone numbers and words running into other numbers and words tells me that this was done at a time when her mind was starting to leave her, once again putting the helpfulness of any of it in doubt.

This is basically the nuclear option for everyone who's been sleuthing this case for so long, but I think you're correct that it's at least a possibility. She was clearly suffering from major mental illness by the end, and had already displayed massive resentment at anyone inquiring into her past. It's not inconceivable that someone in such a state could deliberately set out to "troll" the world by leaving behind a diabolical web of false "clues" for future investigators

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

These are some random musing I've had-

* why did FLEK pick Texas as her final place to call home? My guess it it had enough things in common with her point of origin to make her comfortable. Texas has always been prosperous. Also in FLEK's youthful years (a bit before my era) Texas had a certain "reputation." Maybe someone in her age group could make better guesses as to why Texas was appealing.

* regarding a connection between California & Idaho (other than having to do with making a new Identity on paper) Idaho was a super trendy destination for retirees coming from California in the 1980s. FLEK might have known someone going there.

* I read a biography about Angelina Jolie (the actress...author was Andrew Morton) & I learned the mistress of Jolie's father John Voight was apparently a follower of the Children Of God cult. If the guesses about FLEK having origins in that cult world are true, plus some of the scribbles on the paper in the safe (regarding Hollywood)...it could be that FLEK tried to live in Hollywood/LA, botched up that plan somehow...so her second plan was to get a new ID & move away. Keep in mind the underworld of Los Angeles is pretty bad (examples- the Wonderland murders case, The Mexican Mafia, rampant drug trafficking, etc.) She might have wanted to be untraceable to a certain group of people.

* Could the super sour dynamic between FLEK & her in-laws come from a (possibly correct) feeling she had that her husband was likely to be easily influenced by them, & that they were going out of their way to make her life hard? Keep in mind her family drama is actually the least weird part of this story.

* I've wondered if she socialized with business associates a bit more than her family. Independent women tend to relish/value the confidence of co-workers & superiors. There is a chance she might have told a bit more to someone she worked with instead of a fellow churchgoer or an in-law.

The last thing I'll say is some of the features of FLEK's life are "textbook" examples of behaviors I've witnessed in bipolar women, or women who are very susceptible to suggestion/fantasy thinking. She obviously had problems but dealt with most of them successfully, honestly more so than some people with the same issues.

 

[ClayBertrand]

Good idea. There is a sub forum on yearbook searches but I did a search for Bakersfield in it and it doesn't look like people have. There are a lot of high schools in Bakersfield when I just checked on wikipedia so it's a daunting task - I'm happy to take a couple and check on classmates (I might start with Bakersfield HS and Centennial HS), anyone else have a classmates login and happy to do some searching?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_High_School_District

I've been browsing around a little bit already. What years should we be looking at?
By the way is it known if LEK dyed her hair?

 

[sunnynz]

I've been browsing around a little bit already. What years should we be looking at?

I tend to look between 1985 and 1987 but there are probably people here who would argue you should look earlier than that. Always have a quick glance at the girls' basketball team pics as well as class photos.

 

[astridxx]

I'm active on Reddit. What would you like me to ask? I'll PM her


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[Weyden]

I'm active on Reddit. What would you like me to ask? I'll PM her


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I read the thread on Reddit and she is Lori's husband's niece's college friend. She never met Lori but knows the Ruff family.

 

[Mmeclh]

Astridxx,

Hi thanks for the offer.

Hmm I guess I'd like to know if MishDishDishMish knows if the Ruffs have any theories as to who Lori really was. Even if the don't know for sure they must have some guesses...

Also, maybe simply her ask what did this niece think of her aunt Lori. Does she have any stories of her aunt?

These are just a couple things off the top of my head. For me the most interesting thing she could tell us are who the Ruffs may think she is.

If anyone has other questions please share.

Once again thanks Astridxx

 

[sloane7777]

Good idea. There is a sub forum on yearbook searches but I did a search for Bakersfield in it and it doesn't look like people have. There are a lot of high schools in Bakersfield when I just checked on wikipedia so it's a daunting task - I'm happy to take a couple and check on classmates (I might start with Bakersfield HS and Centennial HS), anyone else have a classmates login and happy to do some searching?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_High_School_District

I know at one point someone , maybe carbuff or carlk were searching the yearbooks there and in AZ but nothing came of it !

 

[llywrch]

I'm active on Reddit. What would you like me to ask? I'll PM her

IMHO, the best information this poster could offer us is a sense of the Ruffs. For a long time (years?) we pictured them as upper-middle class or better, influential, basically pillars of their community. Now we find they are clearly more modest. I'm not saying we need to completely deconstruct them, but that if we were wrong with those assumptions then what other assumptions are misleading us? Some of the Ruff/LEK friction may have been due to causes completely unrelated to LEK's personality but hidden from us. For example, maybe one of them advocated a political or social point of view that offended LEK; that's the reason I rarely discuss politics with my in-laws who live in Ohio. (Despite being my being careful, I did have a couple of incidents that would illustrate the difference in world views between a West Coast liberal & Midwest conservatives.)

And one problem we've struggled with is that a lot of the information people start with on this case comes from the Seattle Times article which, although basically a reliable source for most of what we know about LEK, is comprised of second & third-hand information. For example, LEK's infamous career as a stripper is based on entirely what an unnamed guy told agent Velling who told the Times reporter -- an allegation that is, as best, second hand. Every time it is mentioned, I have to wonder why Velling would have believed what a frustrated suitor would have told him about LEK -- which is the problem with second-hand information: instead of analyzing the facts, you end up analyzing the reasons why this fact reached you. (Sometimes those reasons are more enlightening than the fact itself.)

Getting a sense who the Ruffs are would allow us to dismiss a sizable chunk of the speculations here. Maybe the Ruffs had ulterior motives for the stories they shared about LEK, maybe they are sincere in what they said. And maybe this person on Reddit can offer some clues to cut thru this fog & get a more clear sense of who LEK was.

And, as well, the other questions suggested here. One bit of advice: don't push her too hard. It seems that whenever someone with personal knowledge about the people in this case appear, our eagerness to know what they know frightens them away. Although the fact this person volunteered this information in a post unrelated to the thread suggests she may be eager to share. Or might even be recruited to join our forum.

BTW, it is heartening that we've had two different people recently admit they know something about LEK in her day-to-day life. I hope this means we can create a proper profile of her, one that will allow us to narrow the possibilities of her origins.

 

[sloane7777]

sorry guys playing catch up!

 

[astridxx]

Done. I'll let you know what MDDM says.

 

[SavetheQueen]

I thought that I would pop in and say Hi! I'm reading along. Working on obtaining some documentation. My computer decided to go haywire (Thanks, Windows 10 update! ). I'm working on getting that figured out. Some good posts lately!

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[astridxx]

MDDM says she has reconnected with the niece recently, but that they live in different parts of the world. She barely knew of FLEK's existence back in the day. Also, she said she'd pass your messages on to the niece.


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[BigCityAccountant]

IMHO, the best information this poster could offer us is a sense of the Ruffs. For a long time (years?) we pictured them as upper-middle class or better, influential, basically pillars of their community. Now we find they are clearly more modest. I'm not saying we need to completely deconstruct them, but that if we were wrong with those assumptions then what other assumptions are misleading us? Some of the Ruff/LEK friction may have been due to causes completely unrelated to LEK's personality but hidden from us. For example, maybe one of them advocated a political or social point of view that offended LEK; that's the reason I rarely discuss politics with my in-laws who live in Ohio. (Despite being my being careful, I did have a couple of incidents that would illustrate the difference in world views between a West Coast liberal & Midwest conservatives.)

And one problem we've struggled with is that a lot of the information people start with on this case comes from the Seattle Times article which, although basically a reliable source for most of what we know about LEK, is comprised of second & third-hand information. For example, LEK's infamous career as a stripper is based on entirely what an unnamed guy told agent Velling who told the Times reporter -- an allegation that is, as best, second hand. Every time it is mentioned, I have to wonder why Velling would have believed what a frustrated suitor would have told him about LEK -- which is the problem with second-hand information: instead of analyzing the facts, you end up analyzing the reasons why this fact reached you. (Sometimes those reasons are more enlightening than the fact itself.)

Getting a sense who the Ruffs are would allow us to dismiss a sizable chunk of the speculations here. Maybe the Ruffs had ulterior motives for the stories they shared about LEK, maybe they are sincere in what they said. And maybe this person on Reddit can offer some clues to cut thru this fog & get a more clear sense of who LEK was.

And, as well, the other questions suggested here. One bit of advice: don't push her too hard. It seems that whenever someone with personal knowledge about the people in this case appear, our eagerness to know what they know frightens them away. Although the fact this person volunteered this information in a post unrelated to the thread suggests she may be eager to share. Or might even be recruited to join our forum.

BTW, it is heartening that we've had two different people recently admit they know something about LEK in her day-to-day life. I hope this means we can create a proper profile of her, one that will allow us to narrow the possibilities of her origins.

Adding on here...

If the niece interacted or talked with FLEK~~what did she talk about, what were her likes/dislikes. Did she have any hobbies? Anything else the niece could offer such as what the young man in Arlington offered. Did she seem all together or scattered. That would at least tell us if she had an ongoing mental health issue or if she just lost it when the marriage started to unravel.

 

[Laughing]

How does the niece feel about Grandma? About Grandma's opinion of others? Any insight into the church situation? What does she remember about the family gatherings? Did our Lori give this niece gifts for her birthday & Christmas, what where they? Books, Disney Princess costumes? Voice -- if she didn't sound Texan, how did she sound?

I agree -- tread lightly & build rapport with this potential gold mine of information!