TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Hank36]

I'm not sure how Texas probate works, but HIPPA allows the personal representative/executor of the decedent's estate to get that person's medical records. Obviously, as the PR is charged with acting in the interests of the estate, the HIPPA exemption is presumably intended to be used as a tool in the event of something like a wrongful death/medmal claim, so the question may be whether a PR can be compelled by subpoena to get medical records to assist in a crikminal investigation.

I'm trying to remember: Did I read somewhere that this woman was not autopsied? Again, I'm operating on the presumption that in most jurisdictions, suicides are subject to the same investigation as homicides, and thanks to Oliver Stone, I seem to recall that all homicide victims in Texas must be autopsied in Texas. Yet all I know for sure is that her fingerpronts were taken.

I wouldd also agree that an immunization record would probably be very easy to fake--I'm about the age this woman pretended to be, and mine is merely a folded piece of cardboard from pediatric practice shuttered years ago, bearing a string of notations and dates handwritten in ball-point--not even a rubber stamp.

 

[Gardener1850]

Oh...Midwesterners have accents...lol.. You know you are from Chicago if you refer to the living room as the frounch room.. Or in other words the front room..you know you are from Wisconsin or Michigan , eh?? About is usually 'boat.

lol

Yes, every place has regional dialects. The Ruff family all lived in Texas though. It's not clear if they would be able to tell the difference between a Midwest or a pacific NW accents and they are very different to my ear. I can tell the different between someone from Minnesota and someone from Michigan just by listening to them talk. Wisconsin is very distinctive as well. The states that blend in a bit more for me are Iowa, Ohio and Illinois (Except for people from Chicago--you have distinct sound if you've been there more than one generation) but I bet people local to those states would know the difference after a while of listening to someone talk as well. Such a shame we don't have audio of Lori.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm not sure how Texas probate works, but HIPPA allows the personal representative/executor of the decedent's estate to get that person's medical records. Obviously, as the PR is charged with acting in the interests of the estate, the HIPPA exemption is presumably intended to be used as a tool in the event of something like a wrongful death/medmal claim, so the question may be whether a PR can be compelled by subpoena to get medical records to assist in a crikminal investigation.

I'm trying to remember: Did I read somewhere that this woman was not autopsied? Again, I'm operating on the presumption that in most jurisdictions, suicides are subject to the same investigation as homicides, and thanks to Oliver Stone, I seem to recall that all homicide victims in Texas must be autopsied in Texas. Yet all I know for sure is that her fingerpronts were taken.

I wouldd also agree that an immunization record would probably be very easy to fake--I'm about the age this woman pretended to be, and mine is merely a folded piece of cardboard from pediatric practice shuttered years ago, bearing a string of notations and dates handwritten in ball-point--not even a rubber stamp.

You are correct, she was not autopsied. She was cremated before they discovered the identity theft. They do have her fingerprints, samples of hair and skin from the mortuary.
We don't know who was in charge of her estate (if there was one) or even where her ashes went. Blakes family might have taken care of them but since she was divorced or divorcing him at the time he may not have had any legal right to be executor of her estate.

I agree the immunizations would be easy to forge. The paper I have signed by a dr is just a form the university required and it asks for dates I got each shot. Anyone could have filled it out and signed it.

 

[llywrch]

Hi--I'm new to this forum, so I know that my chiming in here may disrupt a conversation, but I did have one observation about Lori Ruff:

I'm seeing where several articles state that she likely employed the services of some type of sophisticated "identity broker", due to how thoroughly she was able to erase her past.

I'm not so sure--I'm old enough to remember how, in the pre-internet age, the type of identity theft used by "Lori" being discussed in multiple public contexts--particularly a memorable "60 Minutes" segment in which Mike Wallace interviewed a court clerk about public access to birth certificates. As the clerk stated that people getting copies of other people's birth certificates wasn't a problem, Wallace, on camera, pointed out to the clerk a young woman waiting in line for a copy of a birth certificate, and made a remark to the effect of "You aren't here to get somebody else's birth certificate, are you?" The woman said "no", but of course, she was an undercover "60 Minutes" reporter who was, in fact, seeking the birth certificate of a dead child, and who went on to obtain a wide variety of photo ID and credit cards.

Then, as now, financial crimes were the primary motivation for identiy theft, but I also recall reading in a college textbook about the phenomenon of "social suicide" in which people assume a new identity, going so far as to explain that visiting cemetaries seeking headstone information was a great method for learning of a deceased infant.

(I should also point out that as the eighties were also a time when states were gradually raising the drinking age back to 21, and as some people born in the late-60's and early 70's were legally able to buy alcohol in some states but not others, creating a wholly forged driver's license was not especially difficult for anybody with access to a laminating machine--and who outside of, say, Delaware had any idea what a Delaware driver's license was supposed to look like?)

The eighties were also a time when one's social security number was (a) often not issued until one reached his or her teens, and (b) hardly considered the closely guarded secret it is today. Another memory of my college days--at least one professor who posted exam scores on his office door by printing a list of the full nine-digit social security numbers of the entire class, with each student's score next to his SS number.

"Lori" may have taken things a step further by going before a judge and changing her name again, and by traveling to multiple states, but again--I don't think she did anything, or had access to any specialized knowledge, that any motivated individual of reasonable intelligence couldn't have pulled off as well. Again--it was a different time, and it isn't unreasonable to surmise that "Lori's" paranoia must have increased over time as a direct result of the ever-snowballing digital revolution and information age.

Hank, All of those points have been made here. However, with all of the posts that have been made to this thread, they definitely need to be repeated periodically. There are two items, however, that keep anyone from putting this in the "Securely disproved" category along with the "LEK was a KGB agent" theory: (1) someone brought up the possibility that maybe BST's birth certificate was used more than once by people associated with the Boise, Idaho address; & (2) BCA mentioned that her letter of reference is amazingly similar to another letter an acquaintance, who was considering running away, had.

So the "Identity broker" theory goes into the "Highly unlikely" category.

And welcome to the group. You've made some good first posts.

 

[llywrch]

Here's something else I question from one of the main articles on this woman, by the fellow heading up the investigation:

First of all, are there any audio recordings of her voice available for review? Frankly, what I'm not finding the articles I've read so far are any discussion of her from people who actually knew her outside of her husband and her inlaws (who clearly disliked her). However obsessively private she may have been about her past, however, I see no suggestion that she was any sort of recluse.

If there are any recordings of her voice, no one has mentioned them. Maybe the family has one.

More to the point: Deciding that this woman is from the West Coast solely because she reportedly had "no accent" seems a fairly flimsy reason to automatically eliminate the other 70% or so of the U.S. from consideration. Does he reaally mean "no Texas accent"? (For what it's worth, the statement that "everyone in Dallas has an accent" is fairly dubious as well.)

Second of all--the idea of her having "no accent" is itself false, in that even so-called "non-regional English dialect" e.g. a local TV news anchor is itself a dialect.

But the point I really want to make is this: I've known people who have moved from one part of the coountry to another--typically from a rural area to an urban area--that have taken great pains to learn to speak what could be described as "without a discernable accent". Some people are able to pull it off on a full-time basis better than others, but like I said in my previous post--this was primarily dependant on how motivated they were to lose the accent.

That's a point many people have brought up.

My guess (based on the partial records of his investigation that a FOIA request produced) is that Agent Velling never directly talked to the family or anyone who knew her, so much of what he knew about her was either second hand or thru documents. This is understandable: this was not a high-priority case, he had only so much time he could devote it to, so his strategy was to focus on any leads that allowed him to circumvent her identity change -- which meant he likely never created a profile of LEK from the people who knew her & the post-1988 records.

And it's something of a truism that people in the Pacific Northwest have "no accent". Our localisms are more subtle, & very close to the standard mid-American patterns that it's easy to make that assumption -- but there are differences. Further, my impression of LEK's inlaws -- who are our source for her having "no accent" weren't that sophisticated in their knowledge of accents outside of Texas or the South, so unless she had an obviously heavy regional accent (as an example, think Fran Dreschler) they'd say she had "no accent" & ignore any clues that someone else might have picked up on.

That said--there seems to a dearth of people that actually knew her who have publically discussed their relationship with her, even on a superficial level. If there are any articles that do contain such information, please direct me to them!

To me, that where my inquiry starts--to come up with some type of a profile of this woman.

You're not the first to complain about a lack of people admitting they knew her. There have been so few that we sometimes bring up the comments of SpringSummer1988, who posted here a year or two ago, & wonder if there are anything to his memories of her. That one commentator to the Youtube video has provided more information about her personality in one brief sentence than anyone else has since this forum was started. (And I have to wonder, now that I've grown suspicious of SS1988, if that person's testimony can be trusted.)

But yes, having a profile of this woman would get us somewhere. As I said, Agent Velling apparently never did this, because of lack of time & resources, & because he reasonably assumed his usual methods would result with her birth name. And that his goal: to identify her, & possibly any identity theft ring that helped her.

But unless someone who knew her joins our forum, provides some independent information about her, & stays to answers questions, the best we're going to be able to do is to sort thru her legal records: there might be some documentation concerning her name change in 1988; she filed for bankruptcy back in 1997 -- which would provide a lot of clues about her; & a search thru the relevant phone books & local directories to see if they allow us to verify the addresses we have for her -- or maybe uncover some possible acquaintances. Awillis0513 has volunteered to file a FOIA request for the police records concerning her suicide, which might not tell us anything, but would disprove some theories about her.

If you can contribute to creating a profile, feel free to do so.

 

[HawkFan2014]

PIM, I appreciate you trying. I couldn't find a marriage record for that DS's mom either (the DS born in May 1959), but that doesn't mean she wasn't married. Let me ask you a possibly easier question. How did you come to the conclusion that the mom (N**m*n) was married to the RS in the obituary I posted? Since DS was NOT mentioned at all in the Obituary and we know that DS is alive I'm inclined to think that DS is NOT RS's daughter. I think you have the wrong man, but IDK. And at this point, unless you can come up with another DS besides the married one that fits the age from the newspaper stories I'm inclined to believe FLEK could not have been the DS who testified at trial.

One other thing, I want to make clear about Ancestry (and this is not directed only at you PIM). There's not a big conspiracy to hide records. Recent marriages are not on Ancestry. I was married in the 2000's and my marriage record is not on there. My birth record is not on there either. My grandmother died a couple weeks ago. Her death record/SS record is not there yet. Anything after 1940 is going to be hard to find. Before 1940 is easier because the 1940 census has come out. Many states have a policy of not releasing records until most people in them are dead, to prevent identity theft. Some states don't release anything at all. For example, I have Ancestors who lived in New York State. Their birth records and death records from the 1800's are not online. The only way I could get them is to pay the state/county of their birth for them. So not everything is there on Ancestry. You probably already know all this since you have been on Ancestry a while but I wanted to make it clear for anyone else wondering why we can't always find records.

Search the husband and kids. That DS was born in 1949. It is a bad link.
RNS check marraige records to second husband RL. She is listed as both Newman and Stalder.
BTW, you will find RNS living with Janet S.
Her niece played tennis for UCLA. ES has some BIG hands in her yearbook photo! Have fun

 

[OBrunhilde!]

Don't know if anyone has contacted him, but his first wife (the TX one) was L*** and she would be the one that would possibly know, as D*** wasn't married to G until later. But L*** has 'disappeared' records-wise (as has so much of this family). Don't know whether it's the 95% military rate or what, but this family has been hard to find records for (especially the males).

I've spent the evening trying to round up addresses, and got caught in a rabbit trail (interesting but not productive as far as answering Gardener's question of yesterday about the common address). Gardener, first off...there was an 8-yr age difference between him and his sister, and I believe they were step-sibs, so I'm not sure if the two ever lived in the same household after 1977--but again, I will check my screenshots to see where I got that from. There is no record of marriage or divorce for RN (her mom) and RS, either, and there is the possibility that DJS may have been born out of wedlock. There are, indeed, a lot of Debbie Stalders, but the problem is not that I'm mixing them up (I'm keeping a painstaking list, in fact)--the problem is that the records themselves give 2-3 conflicting birthdates for the DS who was married to Sh*****d. I've found a Sep 1949, a 1957 and a 1958 date (as of tonight) for that Debbie, and obviously they are not all correct (if any). I'm putting together a Text doc, which I could show you to make my point, but it'd probably just confuse you all further. And it's taking me a bit longer as I'm having to navigate a new operating system in my computer this week - one which does not yet have Word on it - so I'm having to use Text instead. Emilove, I'm sorry--not trying to confuse anyone, it's just that there is differing, conflicting info in the records themselves. The birthdate you said you found for the married DS is the one I found for my DJS. But ancestry has NO record of marriage for her to Sh*****d, and neither does familysearch. Maybe I just need to not post in here until I get to the bottom of it. This is worse than trying to trace my Mennonite ancestry.

I think I might have found the DS that you are referring to alive and sort of well on FB. Living in CA. She is not DJS, rather appears to be DAS, and uses the other, shorter spelling of that first name. Her nickname is Is e usual nickname for that first name, and friends who have known her awhile call her that. She mentions visiting S. Dakota, where RWS, MS, and LS were originally from. There is a picture of her younger self with someone who looks a lot like the S boys did in yearbook photos-- those eyebrows and face shape are pretty distinctive. I don't think DAS belongs to RWS, rather to MS, and his wife RS. The MS I am referring to is the one who is in the same yearbook photo as LS-- on the same page that has a separate picture of RWS with his classmates. So if I am correct, RWS is her uncle. DAS has two sons by two dads, and lived outside of CA for awhile. Maybe it was her in Scottsdale. There is some military stuff on her page-- not unusual really, but along with everything else, it might be telling. She lists a different HS than the LA DS we all looked at, and she states that she graduated in the 80s-- a bit later. So there could still be another DS out there, but I think maybe not attached to RWS or his family? Unless maybe first cousins share a first name, which seems rare. Hopefully, I have left enough of a trail for anyone to check her out. Or I have just confused the heck out of everyone!

 

[Sherwood Park]

BBM.

I've been thinking about this a lot. There were 3 comments from people who apparently knew her or knew the Ruffs on her 2010 obituary (the one here:http://www.tributes.com/obituary/show/Lori-Erica-Ruff-90422740 not the findagrave one). Why only those three? Then it dawned on me that people may not have come forward to comment because she was a suicide. Before anyone gets up in arms, hear me out on this. I'm speaking from personal experience. I had a friend who committed suicide in college. He was a very popular guy who knew hundreds of people. He was involved in all kinds of clubs and activities and a good student. When word of his death came everyone who knew him expected some form of fowl play or a rare heart condition but it was a clear case of suicide. I went to the funeral and only about a dozen other non-family members were there. About half of the non-family I spoke with asked in hushed shock "how did he die?" They had not heard. They came to the funeral not knowing it was a suicide and if they had heard they probably would not have attended the funeral. I was horrified that people who loved him could be so uncaring toward his grieving family. I was heartbroken that so few people showed up to support his family. But the truth is there is a stigma attached to suicide. Maybe people don't know what to say to the family. Maybe they just don't want anything to do with the situation and prefer to be in denial. Another situation I encountered was when a friend's mother died. Another mutual friend put out on facebook, "please pray for *advertiser censored* and family after her mother's suicide." Friend who lost her mother was beyond angry about that post. The family did not want anyone knowing her mother committed suicide. It is a dark secret often hidden. So I'm thinking maybe Lori had some friends but her COD has prevented them from commenting publicly. JMO.

Thanks for sharing your theory. I guess it would be true that if someone commits suicide, it might be considered uncomfortable or unkind to come forward with information about the deceased, especially if what you had to share about the person might not be the most pleasant (e.g. she was strange, she mostly kept to herself, she was grumpy, etc.) I'm not saying FLEK was like this, but if others saw her this way, they might not want to share that information considering her suicide and leaving behind a young child. I personally would be hesitant to share negative information about FLEK's personality knowing that her daughter would only have these negative descriptions as memories of her mother.
I deleted my post. I was surprised to see that you had been able to reply to it. Strange.

 

[Gardener1850]

Sorry Sherwood Park, I don't know how I was able to reply. I'll ask a mod to delete my post unless I can still delete it myself and feel free to delete your reply to my reply above.

 

[OBrunhilde!]

I couldn't find any messaging system on YouTube, so I just posted a public message on his profile page asking him to come on over here and chime in-- even if he thinks he doesn't know anything. Fingers crossed.

 

[sloane7777]

i couldn't find any messaging system on youtube, so i just posted a public message on his profile page asking him to come on over here and chime in-- even if he thinks he doesn't know anything. Fingers crossed.

i missed it he who?

 

[sloane7777]

Wait i got it nvm

 

[Hank36]

I suppose I should take a moment to ask what other theories have been bandied about. (I hate to call them "theories", but oh well.) One notion that popped into my head was simply that she was trying to escape some type of noteriety--I'm thinking of women along the lines of Dawn Spens or Bernadette Protti--people with a desire to overcome gigantic skeletons in their closets. For that matter, she well have had a notorious parent (didn't John Wayne Gacy have a daughter who changed her name? And what about those possible Manson babies of the late 60's?)

It just seems to me that tracking down who this woman used to be isn't a matter of distributing her photo--it's a matter of first figuring out who she became. What struck me most of all about this story were the photos of her at the ladies' business club function--this wasn't a woman looking to hide, but a woman deliberately and publically presenting herself. As what, I don't know. (The choice of day-glo turquoise wasn't the most conservative choice, but then, neither is working as a stripper.)

Maybe I'm thinking along these lines because I just read the comments about her liking "Disney crap way to much, always talking about princess ****", particularly in the context that she was reportedly an overprotective mother with intimacy issues. To take the dimestore psychoanalysis a step further, I could point out that one of the Disney tropes is an absent mother. (I could be wrong, but it seems that mothers, rather than fathers, tend to be more strident in publically spearheading efforts to find their missing children. Fathers seem more likely to spend money on investigators.) I need to think about these things some more.

 

[sunnynz]

I suppose I should take a moment to ask what other theories have been bandied about. (I hate to call them "theories", but oh well.) One notion that popped into my head was simply that she was trying to escape some type of noteriety--I'm thinking of women along the lines of Dawn Spens or Bernadette Protti--people with a desire to overcome gigantic skeletons in their closets. For that matter, she well have had a notorious parent (didn't John Wayne Gacy have a daughter who changed her name? And what about those possible Manson babies of the late 60's?)

It just seems to me that tracking down who this woman used to be isn't a matter of distributing her photo--it's a matter of first figuring out who she became. What struck me most of all about this story were the photos of her at the ladies' business club function--this wasn't a woman looking to hide, but a woman deliberately and publically presenting herself. As what, I don't know. (The choice of day-glo turquoise wasn't the most conservative choice, but then, neither is working as a stripper.)

Maybe I'm thinking along these lines because I just read the comments about her liking "Disney crap way to much, always talking about princess ****", particularly in the context that she was reportedly an overprotective mother with intimacy issues. To take the dimestore psychoanalysis a step further, I could point out that one of the Disney tropes is an absent mother. (I could be wrong, but it seems that mothers, rather than fathers, tend to be more strident in publically spearheading efforts to find their missing children. Fathers seem more likely to spend money on investigators.) I need to think about these things some more.

There are so many other theories and a lot of digging that has gone into this case over many years. I encourage you to read through the previous threads here on WS http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?522-Mysterious-woman-from-Longview-Texas start by reading the general discussion threads in the order they are numbered, then if any particular theory or piece of evidence interests you there are generally subthreads on it. (The LeBarons, the notes page, etc).

 

[Sherwood Park]

Sorry Sherwood Park, I don't know how I was able to reply. I'll ask a mod to delete my post unless I can still delete it myself and feel free to delete your reply to my reply above.

There's no need to delete it. I just wondered how that happened.

 

[Hank36]

I will say--not to start an argument, but just to say it--that given the general circuumstances of this woman's life, I'm skeptical that she was ever invvolved with, or running from, some type of a cult or religious sect. On the surface, she just seems to have the sort of gumption not usually associated with cult members, even disgruntled cult members.

 

[nerosleuth]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned in any of the other FLEK threads, but I may have found something that could be relevant.

I did some online research regarding fingerprints and driver’s licenses, and I found some interesting news media articles on this subject.

Here are two California newspaper articles from July 1986.


State High Court Curbs Use of DMV License Fingerprints

July 25, 1986

The California Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the state may continue to require motorists to submit their fingerprints to obtain a driver's license--but that it may not pass on such data to other government agencies or private parties.

The court held unanimously that the thumb or fingerprint requirement, mandatory since 1982, did not in itself infringe on the state constitutional right to privacy and that the Department of Motor Vehicles can use the prints to authenticate the identity of license applicants.

Source:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-25/news/mn-272_1_fingerprint-data


Court Won't Bar License Fingerprints

July 24, 1986

The California Supreme Court ruled that a 1982 state law requiring driver's license applicants to put a thumbprint or fingerprint on the application is a legitimate method to promote highway safety by reducing the number of fraudulent licenses, and does not violate the right of privacy.

The Chief Justice said that fraudulent licenses are on the increase by drivers whose licenses have been revoked because of reckless or drunk driving. The Chief Justice also said that fingerprints were far more reliable as identification than photographs or signatures.

Source:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-24/news/mn-31652_1_thumbprint


Here are two news articles from July 2014 and February 2015 from a Texas television station.


DPS Requiring All 10 Fingerprints When Drivers Renew License

Published: July 18, 2014

AUSTIN (KXAN) — Most of us have a driver’s license, and at some point you will have to get it renewed. But the next time you head to the DMV, be prepared to hand over one more piece of information.

The Department of Public Safety quietly started requiring all 10 fingerprints earlier this year.

DPS says the new policy will help reduce fraud and identity theft. They also believe it will deter terrorists and other criminals from getting Texas driver’s licenses.

Source:

http://kxan.com/2014/07/18/dps-requiring-all-10-fingerprints-when-drivers-renew-license/


Texas No Longer Collecting All 10 Fingerprints For Drivers License

Published: February 6, 2015,

AUSTIN (KXAN) — The Texas Department of Public Safety will no longer collect all 10 fingerprints from people trying to get a Texas drivers license.

The change comes after “concerns and questions raised by a number of legislators regarding the statutory authority of DPS” collecting the fingerprints.

The department will still comply with a law passed in 2005 that requires them to get a thumbprint or fingerprint from applicants seeking a license or identification card.

DPS says they will collect prints of drivers’ index fingers.

Source:

http://kxan.com/2015/02/06/texas-no-longer-collecting-all-10-fingerprints-for-drivers-license/


I also found another article that listed which states require you to submit your fingerprints before you can obtain a driver’s license.

States Now Demanding Fingerprints From (Pretty Much) Every Adult

Since the 1960s Texas has required thumbprints for license renewals – index fingerprints if the thumb is missing.

Other states which mandate the collection of a full set of fingerprints in order to garner a drivers license include California, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, and Georgia.

Source:

http://www.offthegridnews.com/priva...ng-fingerprints-from-pretty-much-every-adult/


Even though California residents have been required by state law since 1982 to submit their fingerprints in order to obtain their driver’s license, I wonder if it also applies to state photo ID cards as well.

I’m speculating that if FLEK had lived in California during the 1980’s, she didn’t have a California driver’s license, but may had a driver’s license or state photo ID card under a different name from another state that didn’t require fingerprints.

Here is another thought to consider. We know that FLEK’s fingerprints were taken prior to her cremation. And even if FLEK had a driver’s license or state photo ID card from another state that required fingerprints, and even if the fingerprints had matched, there is the possibility that it could be another false identity that she had.

 

[HawkFan2014]

Don't know if anyone has contacted him, but his first wife (the TX one) was L*** and she would be the one that would possibly know, as D*** wasn't married to G until later. But L*** has 'disappeared' records-wise (as has so much of this family). Don't know whether it's the 95% military rate or what, but this family has been hard to find records for (especially the males).

I've spent the evening trying to round up addresses, and got caught in a rabbit trail (interesting but not productive as far as answering Gardener's question of yesterday about the common address). Gardener, first off...there was an 8-yr age difference between him and his sister, and I believe they were step-sibs, so I'm not sure if the two ever lived in the same household after 1977--but again, I will check my screenshots to see where I got that from. There is no record of marriage or divorce for RN (her mom) and RS, either, and there is the possibility that DJS may have been born out of wedlock. There are, indeed, a lot of Debbie Stalders, but the problem is not that I'm mixing them up (I'm keeping a painstaking list, in fact)--the problem is that the records themselves give 2-3 conflicting birthdates for the DS who was married to Sh*****d. I've found a Sep 1949, a 1957 and a 1958 date (as of tonight) for that Debbie, and obviously they are not all correct (if any). I'm putting together a Text doc, which I could show you to make my point, but it'd probably just confuse you all further. And it's taking me a bit longer as I'm having to navigate a new operating system in my computer this week - one which does not yet have Word on it - so I'm having to use Text instead. Emilove, I'm sorry--not trying to confuse anyone, it's just that there is differing, conflicting info in the records themselves. The birthdate you said you found for the married DS is the one I found for my DJS. But ancestry has NO record of marriage for her to Sh*****d, and neither does familysearch. Maybe I just need to not post in here until I get to the bottom of it. This is worse than trying to trace my Mennonite ancestry.

So, why "my father was a failed broker "???? If I wanted to make up a story...my father didn't fail.

Only one..Fred C. Take a look

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Have you seen the post (or even posted the post!) on the FB page from a couple of hours ago? The one about following FB pages starting with B Ruff and then the Kennedy's? I've seen a few photos that have made me wonder whether there could be a bio connection.

Could the Ruff's already know who Lori was?

 

[EmiLove832]

Have you seen the post (or even posted the post!) on the FB page from a couple of hours ago? The one about following FB pages starting with B Ruff and then the Kennedy's? I've seen a few photos that have made me wonder whether there could be a bio connection.

Could the Ruff's already know who Lori was?

Definitely a possibility! I commented on that posting that I looked at his friends list to see for myself and noticed he is friends with CeCe Moore, the geneticist that helps people find long lost family members. Crazy because I just mentioned her here on this thread a few days ago. Wish there was a way to find out when they became friends.

In regards to the woman in question, she is a K due to marriage. I found her maiden name so I'm doing a little digging now to see if I can find anything.