TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Linda9681]

For what it's worth.. It still looks like 40....2 months. The 40 is written much bigger than the 2 months.


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[Katinka]

I was thinking about the theory that Lori was walking through a cemetery and came across Becky Sue’s grave. All three daughters that perished in the fire are listed on the same headstone; Becky Sue 68-71, Kay Francise 69-71 and Ann Marie 63-71. If Lori was older than her stated age, why didn’t she pick Ann Marie as her new identity? Why not take all three identities? I think whoever obtained Becky Sue’s birth certificate only had access to records in Kern Co.

 

[Linda9681]

Some say it's because that ID was born in one state and died in another. My opinion is she was not older.. I actually think she was the same or younger. I would be interested in seeing her MD/OBGYNs records as we could then form an opinion based on their notes. There are a few thing s that would be telling of age or if she had a child previously


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[llywrch]

HI BCA, Dr Cr@ne was mentioned in Lori's 1997 bankruptcy. We are not sure why she owed him money.

ETA: See posts 1046 and 1047 of this thread.

Also have a look at post #1118 in this thread. It's a new theory, well worth discussing.

 

[llywrch]

Some say it's because that ID was born in one state and died in another. My opinion is she was not older.. I actually think she was the same or younger. I would be interested in seeing her MD/OBGYNs records as we could then form an opinion based on their notes. There are a few thing s that would be telling of age or if she had a child previously.

So how did the woman who became LEK (or the person(s) who helped her) know BST was born in one state & died in another? The headstone has no information about where the 3 girls were born.

I had a peek at the image of the news clipping that reported their death in the other thread. It provides the information, although garbled: it states first that "Becky Sue" (correctly Anne Marie) was born in Auburn, Kay Francis in Puyallup, & Becky Sue (the real one) in Bakersfield, California. (FWIW, I hadn't noticed that mistake until this moment, despite having read it half a dozen times. Has anyone noticed it before, & I'm just the latest to stumble over that error?)

So, assuming that the most desirable identity to steal would be a child born in one jurisdiction that died in another, whoever found the identity probably did not find it through searching thru grave yards. It was either thru genealogical research -- say a distant relative or a contact of the same -- or through a newspaper article like the one in the other thread. (Or one of those Gardner 1850 posted earlier in this thread -- see posts #516 & 517.)

 

[ClayBertrand]

If somebody had a choice, who wouldn't choose to be younger? (even if it's only on paper)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

@Linda, where are you at with this? I know you've been diligently plodding away on it for years and are probably party to some information that you can't discuss here.

Is it gonna get solved?!?!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So how did the woman who became LEK (or the person(s) who helped her) know BST was born in one state & died in another? The headstone has no information about where the 3 girls were born.

I had a peek at the image of the news clipping that reported their death in the other thread. It provides the information, although garbled: it states first that "Becky Sue" (correctly Anne Marie) was born in Auburn, Kay Francis in Puyallup, & Becky Sue (the real one) in Bakersfield, California. (FWIW, I hadn't noticed that mistake until this moment, despite having read it half a dozen times. Has anyone noticed it before, & I'm just the latest to stumble over that error?)

So, assuming that the most desirable identity to steal would be a child born in one jurisdiction that died in another, whoever found the identity probably did not find it through searching thru grave yards. It was either thru genealogical research -- say a distant relative or a contact of the same -- or through a newspaper article like the one in the other thread. (Or one of those Gardner 1850 posted earlier in this thread -- see posts #516 & 517.)

Or she knew the Turner family to some degree, or she was helped by a professional who would have found that identity for her in a heartbeat.

I think in a internet-less age it would have been quite a laborious task matching up births and deaths in different states unless you knew of the story somehow. I also think she must have known Becky's DoB to be able to order the birth cert in the first place. Surely, when a requesting a birth record, you'd have to at least know the date of birth? You couldn't just call up and say "please may I have a copy of my birth cert, I am BST and was born in 1969" and not be asked for further details. Surely!

 

[Katinka]

So how did the woman who became LEK (or the person(s) who helped her) know BST was born in one state & died in another? The headstone has no information about where the 3 girls were born.

I had a peek at the image of the news clipping that reported their death in the other thread. It provides the information, although garbled: it states first that "Becky Sue" (correctly Anne Marie) was born in Auburn, Kay Francis in Puyallup, & Becky Sue (the real one) in Bakersfield, California. (FWIW, I hadn't noticed that mistake until this moment, despite having read it half a dozen times. Has anyone noticed it before, & I'm just the latest to stumble over that error?)

So, assuming that the most desirable identity to steal would be a child born in one jurisdiction that died in another, whoever found the identity probably did not find it through searching thru grave yards. It was either thru genealogical research -- say a distant relative or a contact of the same -- or through a newspaper article like the one in the other thread. (Or one of those Gardner 1850 posted earlier in this thread -- see posts #516 & 517.)

Exactly, it couldn't have been discovered by someone walking through the graveyard. I never noticed the newspaper article lists Becky Sue twice either. I was so focused on Becky Sue that I didn't pay attention to the other girls. Also, Frances is spelled Francis in the article, Francise on the headstone and Frances on the family tree.

 

[Linda9681]

@Linda, where are you at with this? I know you've been diligently plodding away on it for years and are probably party to some information that you can't discuss here.

Is it gonna get solved?!?!

I totally trust that Velling was very close when he sent that message. I however, got crazy and posted too much info here and burned my contact..


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[CoverMeCagney]

I totally trust that Velling was very close when he sent that message. I however, got crazy and posted too much info here and burned my contact..

Just to recap, that message from Velling was sent to the Ruff's neighbour / amateur PI, yes?
And Velling had got that info from Professor Derek Abbot (of Somerton Taman Shud fame)?
And you were in contact with neighbour PI dude (sorry I have forgotten his name) but now you're not because someone screenshotted your post here and put it on FB and he got cross, correct?
And we think the result was a 19 year old runaway from PA who was tracked via some genealogy site?

(just getting it straight in my head!)

Do you think it's possible it HAS been solved and all of the above (plus the family) now know who she is?

 

[grayley]

Do you think it's possible it HAS been solved and all of the above (plus the family) now know who she is?

Yeah, I wonder what FLEK's letter to her daughter (to be opened on her 18th birthday) reads. Hopefully the family has actually read that.

 

[Gardener1850]

Yeah, I wonder what FLEK's letter to her daughter (to be opened on her 18th birthday) reads. Hopefully the family has actually read that.

The letter was supposedly read by police and family as part of the investigation into her suicide. Someone who read it (police?) called it the ramblings of a disturbed person (my paraphrase).

 

[HerStory]

The letter was supposedly read by police and family as part of the investigation into her suicide. Someone who read it (police?) called it the ramblings of a disturbed person (my paraphrase).

Well, to investigators who were assuming she was LEKR.... would they not deem it to be ramblings until they realize that she isn't who she said she was and that her letter may reveal more truth than fiction?

 

[Gardener1850]

Well, to investigators who were assuming she was LEKR.... would they not deem it to be ramblings until they realize that she isn't who she said she was and that her letter may reveal more truth than fiction?

Right, that is a good point. The LE who investigated her suicide were not investigating her identity theft. The identity theft wasn't even known about until weeks after her death. There could be clues in that letter. At the very least, I want to see the letter for a handwriting comparison with the notes page.

 

[Linda9681]

Just to recap, that message from Velling was sent to the Ruff's neighbour / amateur PI, yes?
And Velling had got that info from Professor Derek Abbot (of Somerton Taman Shud fame)?
And you were in contact with neighbour PI dude (sorry I have forgotten his name) but now you're not because someone screenshotted your post here and put it on FB and he got cross, correct?
And we think the result was a 19 year old runaway from PA who was tracked via some genealogy site?

(just getting it straight in my head!)

Do you think it's possible it HAS been solved and all of the above (plus the family) now know who she is?

Yes and no.
Velling and Abbott have no connection.
I spoke to Abbott and he said there was a DNA match. ( with no further info given by him)

The PI and I spoke and discussed this( as we were both excited and perplexed)..
He then spoke to Velling, who said they were very close to solving the case. VELLINGs comments were not related to or based on Abbots.
It was coincidental timing but not necessarily related.
And I should have not posted that screenshot.. I fully acknowledge that. I have been more careful as of late. Let that be a warning to all not to divulge your sources here.


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[CoverMeCagney]

Yes and no.
Velling and Abbott have no connection.
I spoke to Abbott and he said there was a DNA match. ( with no further info given by him)

The PI and I spoke and discussed this( as we were both excited and perplexed)..
He then spoke to Velling, who said they were very close to solving the case. VELLINGs comments were not related to or based on Abbots.
It was coincidental timing but not necessarily related.
And I should have not posted that screenshot.. I fully acknowledge that. I have been more careful as of late. Let that be a warning to all not to divulge your sources here.


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Ah OK, I think I had assumed Velling got the info re DNA match from Abbot. I wonder what happened with all that then, we were all on tenterhooks for days/weeks expecting a name any day now!! Gutted it never came to fruition.

Is it worth you contacting PI man again? Or could someone else?

 

[grayley]

Well, to investigators who were assuming she was LEKR.... would they not deem it to be ramblings until they realize that she isn't who she said she was and that her letter may reveal more truth than fiction?

Bingo.

I am not firmly in any camp about FLEK's real identity, however I am firmly in the camp where her widower either knows or doesn't want to know. Irrespective of which it is, the ends are the same: we are nearing 6 years out from her death but no closer to a public ID. There is public interest, IMO, in tracing FLEK's movements and identifying her because the process itself may be clues to help locate/solve other missing persons or fugitives. Especially the Bradford Bishop case as I think he must have used similar methods in obtaining new ID before fleeing.

I really, really think the suicide letters should be released as part of the case file. If the Seattle Times filed a Freedom of Information Act request, then the letters would have been included one would think.

 

[Gardener1850]

Bingo.

I am not firmly in any camp about FLEK's real identity, however I am firmly in the camp where her widower either knows or doesn't want to know. Irrespective of which it is, the ends are the same: we are nearing 6 years out from her death but no closer to a public ID. There is public interest, IMO, in tracing FLEK's movements and identifying her because the process itself may be clues to help locate/solve other missing persons or fugitives. Especially the Bradford Bishop case as I think he must have used similar methods in obtaining new ID before fleeing.

I really, really think the suicide letters should be released as part of the case file. If the Seattle Times filed a Freedom of Information Act request, then the letters would have been included one would think.

The Seattle Times reporter had the story dropped in their lap by Velling. IIRC, he contacted the newspaper when he couldn't get anywhere on the case and wanted to appeal to the public for help ID'ing her. IMO, the Seattle Times writer did not do too much investigating. The images in the story are from evidence Velling provided the reporter. I'm not sure Velling has even seen the suicide letter himself. He was not interested in who she was as Lori. He was trying to find someone who knew her prior to 1988.

 

[mrseeker]

I wonder if they ever had a psychiatrist examine the suicide notes to see of it is consistent with Postpartum depression or psychosis, or could it indicate a long term mental health issue. It is too bad they did not do an autopsy and check for drugs including medicines. There also could have been some brain disease that went undetected.