TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[sunnynz]

I have emailed Kern County asking the above questions plus a couple more. I didn't ask them about the SA Camp Farm but if you wanted to know more about that there is a good facebook group I found called 'Kern County of Old', maybe you could post on there or message one of the frequent users? (You'll see there are a bunch of regulars on there who obviously know a lot about local history).

Folks, I got a reply from Kern County! They didn't (couldn't?) answer all of my questions but here are the ones that they did answer. Big outtake is that B Trst actually relates to the fee for the birth certificate rather than to a trust...

* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record.
* What was the process for pulling records? Vital Records are imaged on film and also by an electronic database to retrieve and copy.
* Could someone call or fax and request a record and collect it later? No
* Was this process used by the general public or mainly members of the legal profession? No
* What do the codes on the attached receipt mean? (e.g. BCOP and B.TRST) Those represents cashier codes that the total fee is split between.The statutes that support how much to charge and where the funds go have changed over the years. From the older cashier system I'm confident BCOP was probably Birth Copy and the fee is the base fee and BTRST is the portion that goes to a specific fund.
* Could an attorney pick up the document on behalf of a client and what type of ID was needed? No
* Is anyone at the courthouse from 1988 still working there and familiar with this specific request or the names Ben Perkins, the Turner family or Lori Kennedy? No
* Can you tell if the record was mailed or collected in person by looking at the receipt? No
* Would the original request documentation from 1988 be kept on file anywhere? Any record of the request would be destroyed now pursuant to statutory code.

 

[sunnynz]

Folks, I got a reply from Kern County! They didn't (couldn't?) answer all of my questions but here are the ones that they did answer. Big outtake is that B Trst actually relates to the fee for the birth certificate rather than to a trust...

* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record.
* What was the process for pulling records? Vital Records are imaged on film and also by an electronic database to retrieve and copy.
* Could someone call or fax and request a record and collect it later? No
* Was this process used by the general public or mainly members of the legal profession? No
* What do the codes on the attached receipt mean? (e.g. BCOP and B.TRST) Those represents cashier codes that the total fee is split between.The statutes that support how much to charge and where the funds go have changed over the years. From the older cashier system I'm confident BCOP was probably Birth Copy and the fee is the base fee and BTRST is the portion that goes to a specific fund.
* Could an attorney pick up the document on behalf of a client and what type of ID was needed? No
* Is anyone at the courthouse from 1988 still working there and familiar with this specific request or the names Ben Perkins, the Turner family or Lori Kennedy? No
* Can you tell if the record was mailed or collected in person by looking at the receipt? No
* Would the original request documentation from 1988 be kept on file anywhere? Any record of the request would be destroyed now pursuant to statutory code.

So looking over these answers, I understand it that it had to be FLEK who made the request (not Perkins), and that she had ID for whoever she was posing as when requesting the birth certificate.

 

[milkymama]

However no one is there who worked there in 1988 and according to that government study, California was an open records state and any one could get a birth certificate for any person, no questions asked.

 

[concernedmother]

This case needs some national attention. No one just suddenly appears from nowhere. Someone out there knows exactly who she was. If they have heard about this case, the big question is "Why aren't they talking"?

 

[sunnynz]

However no one is there who worked there in 1988 and according to that government study, California was an open records state and any one could get a birth certificate for any person, no questions asked.

I don't know enough about the law to comment on that, all I can say is that the guy who replied to me seemed confident in the answers and declined to answer any questions where he wasn't confident of the process in 1988.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Folks, I got a reply from Kern County! They didn't (couldn't?) answer all of my questions but here are the ones that they did answer. Big outtake is that B Trst actually relates to the fee for the birth certificate rather than to a trust...

* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record.
* What was the process for pulling records? Vital Records are imaged on film and also by an electronic database to retrieve and copy.
* Could someone call or fax and request a record and collect it later? No
* Was this process used by the general public or mainly members of the legal profession? No
* What do the codes on the attached receipt mean? (e.g. BCOP and B.TRST) Those represents cashier codes that the total fee is split between.The statutes that support how much to charge and where the funds go have changed over the years. From the older cashier system I'm confident BCOP was probably Birth Copy and the fee is the base fee and BTRST is the portion that goes to a specific fund.
* Could an attorney pick up the document on behalf of a client and what type of ID was needed? No
* Is anyone at the courthouse from 1988 still working there and familiar with this specific request or the names Ben Perkins, the Turner family or Lori Kennedy? No
* Can you tell if the record was mailed or collected in person by looking at the receipt? No
* Would the original request documentation from 1988 be kept on file anywhere? Any record of the request would be destroyed now pursuant to statutory code.

Excellent job! I was afraid that they had probably destroyed the older documentation records from that era.

This calls into question something, though: Lori HAD to have picked the birth certificate up in person, then since she had to show an ID. Am I incorrect in thinking that the story has been told that it was mailed?

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[Owutatangledweb]

So looking over these answers, I understand it that it had to be FLEK who made the request (not Perkins), and that she had ID for whoever she was posing as when requesting the birth certificate.

So, this isn't making sense to me. This means she had to already have a BST ID before getting the birth certificate in order to get the birth certificate in order to get the bogus BST Idaho I.D.?

 

[SavetheQueen]

This case needs some national attention. No one just suddenly appears from nowhere. Someone out there knows exactly who she was. If they have heard about this case, the big question is "Why aren't they talking"?

I agree. I don't understand why "no one" knows this woman. We can count on one hand people who have surfaced who knew her, and the validity of the internet posters can be called into question on a certain level.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[Gardener1850]

Folks, I got a reply from Kern County! They didn't (couldn't?) answer all of my questions but here are the ones that they did answer. Big outtake is that B Trst actually relates to the fee for the birth certificate rather than to a trust...

* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record.
* What was the process for pulling records? Vital Records are imaged on film and also by an electronic database to retrieve and copy.
* Could someone call or fax and request a record and collect it later? No
* Was this process used by the general public or mainly members of the legal profession? No
* What do the codes on the attached receipt mean? (e.g. BCOP and B.TRST) Those represents cashier codes that the total fee is split between.The statutes that support how much to charge and where the funds go have changed over the years. From the older cashier system I'm confident BCOP was probably Birth Copy and the fee is the base fee and BTRST is the portion that goes to a specific fund.
* Could an attorney pick up the document on behalf of a client and what type of ID was needed? No
* Is anyone at the courthouse from 1988 still working there and familiar with this specific request or the names Ben Perkins, the Turner family or Lori Kennedy? No
* Can you tell if the record was mailed or collected in person by looking at the receipt? No
* Would the original request documentation from 1988 be kept on file anywhere? Any record of the request would be destroyed now pursuant to statutory code.

Thank you, sunnynz!

Well, so much for the whole bypass trust theory. I really thought we were onto something new. Despite the open records history in California at that time, I'm inclined to think FLEK had some ID showing her name to be Becky Sue (last name could be different as she could just say she was married). Besides the statements above, we have that the receipt says she paid by check. In the 1980's ID would be required when writing a check. So she had a checking account and ID that supported her name being Becky Sue born July 18, 1969. How would she get those things? Use a fake ID to open a checking account?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

So, this isn't making sense to me. This means she had to already have a BST ID before getting the birth certificate in order to get the birth certificate in order to get the bogus BST Idaho I.D.?

"
* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record."


Whoa whoa wait, rewind. The ID presented had to match the name of the person signing the application for the copy of the birth certificate. So anybody could get the birth certificate IF they had an ID that matched the name they were signing on the application for the copy of the birth certificate.

 

[sunnynz]

"
* What type of identification/information was needed to receive a copy of a birth certificate? Same as now, Official picture ID adequately supporting the name signed on our statutory application for copy of said Vital Record."


Whoa whoa wait, rewind. The ID presented had to match the name of the person signing the application for the copy of the birth certificate. So anybody could get the birth certificate IF they had an ID that matched the name they were signing on the application for the copy of the birth certificate.

Yeah, I am thinking she was either posing as a Becky Sue, or she was posing as a relative of BST?

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I agree. I don't understand why "no one" knows this woman. We can count on one hand people who have surfaced who knew her, and the validity of the internet posters can be called into question on a certain level.

I have an opposite view. I've had phases of my life where I was around people I wouldn't EVER claim to know anytime, anyplace......Life is hard and cruel & if FLEK was coming from a sort of "rats on a sinking ship" background, anyone who would know her would either not care enough to say anything or see no point in getting involved in someone else's drama. Real Life is nowhere near Lifetime Channel TV movie fantasy about second chances, kind people and suspending disbelief. For people on the fringe it's nights in the drunk tank, court fines you can't pay, people who never call you back. Men who use you & don't care about you. Relatives that turn their backs on you or disappear. Frankly FLEK's fake life was probably like heaven for her until her crumbling marriage ruined it all.

 

[SavetheQueen]

I have an opposite view. I've had phases of my life where I was around people I wouldn't EVER claim to know anytime, anyplace......Life is hard and cruel & if FLEK was coming from a sort of "rats on a sinking ship" background, anyone who would know her would either not care enough to say anything or see no point in getting involved in someone else's drama. Real Life is nowhere near Lifetime Channel TV movie fantasy about second chances, kind people and suspending disbelief. For people on the fringe it's nights in the drunk tank, court fines you can't pay, people who never call you back. Men who use you & don't care about you. Relatives that turn their backs on you or disappear. Frankly FLEK's fake life was probably like heaven for her until her crumbling marriage ruined it all.

When you put it like that, I totally get it. I definitely see what you mean, now. Mainly because you just described the first 3 decades of my life. LOL! Totally understand now.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[concernedmother]

Her daughter would be about 18 now. I wonder what she has been told and if she is trying to find out who her mother was? It would bother me really bad not knowing.

 

[kmj]

"......Life is hard and cruel & if FLEK was coming from a sort of "rats on a sinking ship" background, anyone who would know her would either not care enough to say anything or see no point in getting involved in someone else's drama. Real Life is nowhere near Lifetime Channel TV movie fantasy about second chances, kind people and suspending disbelief. For people on the fringe it's nights in the drunk tank, court fines you can't pay, people who never call you back. Men who use you & don't care about you. Relatives that turn their backs on you or disappear. Frankly FLEK's fake life was probably like heaven for her until her crumbling marriage ruined it all." (this is a post from WyomingDarkAngel - I still can't manage to "quote" another post article.)

I couldn't agree with this more. I can't speak from personal experience other than to say I have had many jobs in my past where I have met a number people that are doing through these trials. I also think the statement about Bipolar was spot on, based on my experience working with people with Bipolar Disorder.

Lastly, I believe the Ruffs have "moved" on from the whole thing. I know that is hard for some people to fathom when there is a child involved, but again, I have known a number of families that just don't talk about anything bad or wrong and turn a blind eye to anything "upsetting". So much so that they create their own false narrative.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

http://www.texascorporates.com/corp/1491144.html

G. I. L. Properties, Llc

Notice the last director name

 

[concernedmother]

http://www.manta.com/c/mm463sz/gil-properties-llc

 

[OBrunhilde!]

A little bit of info on the below. Still would great for someone who actually worked in the records office to confirm.


What type of identification was needed to receive a birth certificate?
Could someone call or fax and request a record and collect it later? Was this process used b the general public or mainly members of the legal profession?
Could an attorney pick up the document and what type of ID was needed?


As of March 1988, California was an "Open Records State".


"All States Vulnerable To Fraud; "Open Record" States More So

Five of the 12 States visited -- California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Vermont and
Washington -- had laws which classify them as "open record" States. These are
States, as succinctly stated by a local registrar, in which: "By law, the original birth
registration is a public record. Anyone can see it and get a copy of it. We have no
authority to question."

....

The five "open" States visited allow any individual with the minimum information
necessary to apply for and obtain a copy of anyone s birth certificate. Offices in
these States generally do not require any ID from the applicant. "



"Applicants who mail or telephone in their requests, without application form
usually did not have to give any identification or even provide their signatures.
Registrars saw mail requests as the most vulnerable mode of request because
there is no opportunity to question the person as with "walk-ins" and even "phoneins." "



See more here: https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oai-02-86-00001.pdf

I am bumping this forward as we are talking about what is needed to get a copy of a birth cert. again.

We definitely have conflicting information here.

Of course I can't know for sure, but to me it seems more likely that the employee who was kind enough to provide those answers to SunnyNZ (Well Done, SunnyNZ!) made a mistake in earnest, rather than a whole report about identity fraud by a government agency is incorrect.

So, how can we find out for sure? Would a reference librarian be willing and able to look up state laws/codes to see for sure when/if that law changed?

 

[OBrunhilde!]

I dont recall any of those names associated with FLEK before, is this new? Great find!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I dont recall any of those names associated with FLEK before, is this new? Great find!

Hold the press...there appears to be 2 Lori E Ruff's from Longview. One is married to an Er!c Ruff.