TX TX - Madisonville, UnkFem 2-6, UP15905, feeding tube, in suitcase, clothes, blankets, Sep'16

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Bohemian said:
Bravo Ana and thank you! Please thank Sgt Shriver and, by extension, the FBI agents working on Madison’s case, on our behalf.

I wonder if there are future plans to generate a more lifelike composite of Madison via DNA phenotyping?

I agree, it would be wonderful to have photos of all the items found with Madison but there may be operational reasons why they are unavailable.

I suppose the only thing we can offer investigators is to spread the word about the discovery of Madison’s remains.

It’s heartening to know that so much is going on behind the scenes to solve Madison’s case.
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Thank you, Bo & You are a welcome. I will be happy to pass on all of our thanks. I am confident after receiving this email that Madison is definitely not falling through the crack. If this email shed light on anything it is that Sgt. Shiver is definitely dedicated.

I will see what I can find out following this. But yes, you are probably right. I'm sure they have reasons for only releasing what they have so far.

These babies will get their names back.
 
AnaPisces said:
Thank you, Bo & You are welcome. I will be happy to pass on all of our thanks. I am confident after receiving this email that Madison is definitely not falling through the cracks. If this email shed light on anything it is that Sgt. Shiver is definitely dedicated.

I will see what I can find out following this. But yes, you are probably right. I'm sure they have reasons for only releasing what they have so far.

These babies will get their names back.
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Yes, he does seem dedicated to Madison’s case.

btw an official flyer would be helpful but yours is great. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
 
Bohemian said:
Yes, he does seem dedicated to Madison’s case.

btw an official flyer would be helpful but yours is great. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
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Yes, I thought that too, I will ask if there is one. That was more for me to have it all in one place to refer to. I will ask what they have.
 
AnaPisces said:
Yes, I thought that too, I will ask if there is one. That was more for me to have it all in one place to refer to. I will ask what they have.
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I still think it was terrific.

btw I’ll do some more research on the ‘tubie kids’ SM sites this weekend. They may be a great resource for spreading the word about Madison (on the condition investigators agree). I wish we knew exactly which syndrome Madison lived with. ‘Probably micrognathia’ is a pretty limited description when it comes to targeting specific groups. Like other WSers, I suspect Madison’s disability was more complex.
 
Bohemian said:
I still think it was terrific.

btw I’ll do some more research on the ‘tubie kids’ SM sites this weekend. They may be a great resource for spreading the word about Madison (on the condition investigators agree). I wish we knew exactly which syndrome Madison lived with. ‘Probably micrognathia’ is a pretty limited description when it comes to targeting specific groups. Like other WSers, I suspect Madison’s disability was more complex.
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:tyou:

Yes, I agree that it was more complex. I had mentioned Treacher Collins up thread (the slanted eyes made me think of TC first) and I know another sleuther mentioned Craniosynostosis up thread although I haven't looked into that much.

I was reading over this. It covers what causes Micrognathia and other things linked to it. The only ones I'm familiar with are Treacher Collins and Progeria.

https://www.healthline.com/symptom/micrognathism

I found this interesting though...

What Causes Micrognathism?

Micrognathia is a condition in which a child has a very small lower jaw. A child with micrognathia has a lower jaw that’s much shorter or smaller than the rest of their face.

Children may be born with this problem, or it can occur later on. It mainly occurs in children who are born with certain genetic conditions, such as trisomy 13 and progeria. It can also be the result of fetal alcohol syndrome.

In some cases, this problem goes away as the child’s jaw grows with age. In severe cases, micrognathia can cause feeding or breathing problems. It can also lead to malocclusion of the teeth, which means that your child’s teeth don’t align correctly.

[FONT=&amp]Some cases of micrognathia are due to inherited disorders. In other cases, it’s the result of genetic mutations that don’t pass down through families.[/FONT]
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AnaPisces said:
I got a reply back by email from Sgt. Larry Shiver. I bolded a few points.

"The information released is the available information at this time. The FBI have been involved in this case for the last 6 months and have helped us run down and investigate leads in four different states. As of this date we have eliminated 39 different children that we have possible leads on and we are currently working on several more leads at this time. We did receive the information on [AP - I redacted the name for security. This is in relation to the individual who was mentioned in the comments on MCSO FB post - LV] out of Corpus Christi and are currently checking out this lead in addition to the others.

The items found with the child are of a general type. These items are mass produced and have not given us any significant leads through the research of the items. The feeding tube found with the child was imprinted with a lot number, not a serial number and these type of tubes are changed on a regular basis by the parents of the child. The original placement of the tube is done by a medical doctor but due to daily uses such as clogging, infections and so forth the tubes are designed for ease of replacement and the documentation of the tubes is not rigidly done.
In your email, you did not give the name of your non-profit but I would be interested to know which one it is. We have been cooperating with the Missing and Exploited Children's group on a national scale and with media outlets in the US and Mexico. TV stations in Mexico and the South western US did a major story on the coverage as the pollen research showed the areas where the child might have been in the past.
Any leads your group might generate will be welcomed and they can be sent to us at the Sheriff's Office or through the Missing and Exploited Children's website. As you pointed out we also would like to have closure on this child.

Oh, I forgot to answer your other question on the requirements of the FBI involvement. We asked for assistance from our local FBI Region and they applied to Washington to help in our request for assistance, which was granted. They have some guidelines for their involvement but the leads generated in New Mexico, Arizona and Calif. were worked with their assistance. As of today we have the FBI, The Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the Texas Rangers, The Center for Human Remains at the University of North Texas, The South Western Institute of Forensic Science and the Dallas Medical Examiner all involved along with our office. Even with all of this help we are grateful for any other leads that someone can give us in this case.

Thank you for your interest and any possible help you can give us on this case.

Larry S. Shiver
Sgt. Madison County Sheriff's Office
936-348-2755
larry.shiver@madisoncountytx.org"

- I will get back to him today. I'm glad to see that the FBI have been involved but I don't think we have seen any posts from the FBI like we have with Little Jacob. At least, I haven't seen a flyer myself.

- The items being mass produced sounds like it wouldn't narrow down the search but I still do wish we had images of these items. Someone may still recognize them from someones home or something that Madison had with her.

- 39 different children have been eliminated and more are being worked on - I love to hear this, it goes to show that no matter what you here being released by LE or in the media, there is always more going on behind the scenes. I'm even more confident that this little girl will get her name back now.

- I don't know if you all saw the comment that was left on the MCSO's FB page insinuating they should look into an individual who may be the mother but they are checking this out (I pulled the name from his email as she hasn't been named).

- Looks like the feeding tube will not be of any help as this could have been changed many times since it was implanted by a medical professional.

- I'm no longer with the non-profit mentioned so I can't help there but I will let him know which one it was.

- If anyone has anything they would like me to ask when I email him back today, please let me know.
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This is such amazing news! Thanks, Ana! [emoji173]
 
Medical librarian here.

I grabbed my copy of Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Human Malformation to see what other causes of micrognathia we might be dealing with. There are about 125 diagnoses where micrognathia occurs frequently, and about 30 where it occurs occasionally. A lot of these are chromosomal abnormalities - deletions, some mosaic syndromes (where the person only has a partial duplication so they may not have all the classical features of the syndrome), etc.

Unless they run genetic testing we may not be able to narrow it down. Keep in mind too, that a group of people with the same diagnosis can exhibit different features of the disease (ex. mental deficiency is the only 100% common feature of Down Syndrome and hypotonia is very common, but only about 40% have cardiac anomalies.) Another thing to keep in mind is that many disorders have similar presentations - Fetal alcohol syndrome presents with a similar spectrum of defects - similar facial features, growth deficiency, mental deficiency, poor muscle tone. Without genetic testing it would be difficult to distinguish between the two.

AnaPisces said:
:tyou:

Yes, I agree that it was more complex. I had mentioned Treacher Collins up thread (the slanted eyes made me think of TC first) and I know another sleuther mentioned Craniosynostosis up thread although I haven't looked into that much.

I was reading over this. It covers what causes Micrognathia and other things linked to it. The only ones I'm familiar with are Treacher Collins and Progeria.

https://www.healthline.com/symptom/micrognathism

I found this interesting though...
Click to expand...
 
ATheLibrarian said:
Medical librarian here.

I grabbed my copy of Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Human Malformation to see what other causes of micrognathia we might be dealing with. There are about 125 diagnoses where micrognathia occurs frequently, and about 30 where it occurs occasionally. A lot of these are chromosomal abnormalities - deletions, some mosaic syndromes (where the person only has a partial duplication so they may not have all the classical features of the syndrome), etc.

Unless they run genetic testing we may not be able to narrow it down. Keep in mind too, that a group of people with the same diagnosis can exhibit different features of the disease (ex. mental deficiency is the only 100% common feature of Down Syndrome and hypotonia is very common, but only about 40% have cardiac anomalies.) Another thing to keep in mind is that many disorders have similar presentations - Fetal alcohol syndrome presents with a similar spectrum of defects - similar facial features, growth deficiency, mental deficiency, poor muscle tone. Without genetic testing it would be difficult to distinguish between the two.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your insight, ATheLibrarian. It seems as if there are many, many options to what Madison may have been dealing with in her life. I hope the genetic testing is carried out at some stage.
 
ATheLibrarian said:
Medical librarian here.

I grabbed my copy of Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Human Malformation to see what other causes of micrognathia we might be dealing with. There are about 125 diagnoses where micrognathia occurs frequently, and about 30 where it occurs occasionally. A lot of these are chromosomal abnormalities - deletions, some mosaic syndromes (where the person only has a partial duplication so they may not have all the classical features of the syndrome), etc.

Unless they run genetic testing we may not be able to narrow it down. Keep in mind too, that a group of people with the same diagnosis can exhibit different features of the disease (ex. mental deficiency is the only 100% common feature of Down Syndrome and hypotonia is very common, but only about 40% have cardiac anomalies.) Another thing to keep in mind is that many disorders have similar presentations - Fetal alcohol syndrome presents with a similar spectrum of defects - similar facial features, growth deficiency, mental deficiency, poor muscle tone. Without genetic testing it would be difficult to distinguish between the two.
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Thanks for the information, ATL.

Do you know if Guthrie (neonatal heel prick) test cards are archived and/or neonatal DNA databases are kept in the US? If so, I wonder if it’s possible for LE to gain access to the record of a child who is a probable match with Madison?

Recent case in point:

From Angel to Karlie Pearce-Stevenson: the DNA behind NSW's baffling crime
The Sydney Morning Herald
Ava Benny-Morrison
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/from-ange...hind-nsws-baffling-crime-20151203-glec11.html
 
Bohemian said:
Thanks for the information, ATL.

Do you know if Guthrie (neonatal heel prick) test cards are archived and/or neonatal DNA databases are kept in the US? If so, I wonder if it’s possible for LE to gain access to the record of a child who is a probable match with Madison?

Recent case in point:

From Angel to Karlie Pearce-Stevenson: the DNA behind NSW's baffling crime
The Sydney Morning Herald
Ava Benny-Morrison
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/from-ange...hind-nsws-baffling-crime-20151203-glec11.html
Click to expand...

Dean, Kiesha and Khandalyce were found in similar circumstances to Madison:

Karlie and Khandalyce: Police trace DNA through pinprick blood test
MARK MORRI and JANET FIFE-YEOMANS
The Daily Telegraph
October 23, 2015 10:42am
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...t/news-story/0a86db4e72c33a9eb6bc4fb75f1195fe
 
I was wondering if the autopsy was able to study the muscle attachment points on the bones and perhaps deduce how much mobility Madison had?
 
Amonet said:
I was wondering if the autopsy was able to study the muscle attachment points on the bones and perhaps deduce how much mobility Madison had?
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There are so many things that can be done here to identify Madison, given her unique situation. Things I didn't even know could be done. Thanks sleuths! I'm learning a whole lot. :loveyou:
 
AnaPisces said:
There are so many things that can be done here to identify Madison, given her unique situation. Things I didn't even know could be done. Thanks sleuths! I'm learning a whole lot. :loveyou:
Click to expand...

Oops! Forgot to do my list of ‘tubie kids’ organisations on the weekend because I went down the rabbit hole looking at something else (I can’t even remember what now!) Will get to it tomorrow first thing!
 
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