Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

[Pmerle00]

I could never stay there even if others were with me, I would be terrified that someone would try to come and get me, I would have to move, it would just be too creepy knowing that some psycho had been on the property, maybe even in the house, I would not stay there even one night!!!!


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So I have had this thought as well, but being so close to trauma like this, I hope I can give you a new perspective...

If a loved one went missing, would you want them coming home to an empty house?

If they were kidnapped, and escaped/released... found their way home... to see no one there... Is that what you would want? Or would you want to be there to share in that moment of joy and relief?

If they had lost their memory... eventually recovered all of part of them... came home... and couldn't recognize who was there, or no one was there, would you want them to doubt themselves and their "new" memories? Or would you want to be there to assure them that they were finally home?

 

[knowthings]

I fully understand what you are saying but I just couldn't stay there unless I had a policeman stationed outside, I would be so terrified!

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[Razz]

So I have had this thought as well, but being so close to trauma like this, I hope I can give you a new perspective...

If a loved one went missing, would you want them coming home to an empty house?

If they were kidnapped, and escaped/released... found their way home... to see no one there... Is that what you would want? Or would you want to be there to share in that moment of joy and relief?

If they had lost their memory... eventually recovered all of part of them... came home... and couldn't recognize who was there, or no one was there, would you want them to doubt themselves and their "new" memories? Or would you want to be there to assure them that they were finally home?

I'd hope they'd go to the police or find a phone and call someone's cellphone.

And since everyone seems to think that whatever happened to MC
was a criminal act (and I'm afraid I do too), there is no way I would be able to get out of the car at night or get into the car in the morning w/out thinking that whoever got him is going to get me.

And where they live is in a rural area
where neighbors are not nearby.
Nor the police for that matter.
No lights....just darkness.

Nope, no way no how.

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[Razz]

From the family's perspective, we are LIVID at HCSO for not calling this a criminal case and accepting help from the FBI and Texas Rangers. They mishandled things from the very beginning by allowing others onto the scene instead of limiting exposure to LE officials for any amount of time. They also are not being open and honest about things like blood samples sent to labs and timelines of when things have been or are being done. I'm not asking for 100% transparency, but from the outside looking in? They aren't doing near enough to help us find Papaw.

Or....maybe they have a bead on someone or somebodies and are gathering enough evidence to arrest him/her/them. (And honestly, the family might be the last people I would tell.)

Also, finding MC, whether alive or deceased, is what they may need
for arrests.

I'm not giving up hope that police know more than they are saying. That would also explain why they haven't requested further help from the Texas Rangers or the FBI.


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[LaneGirl]

I'd hope they'd go to the police or find a phone and call someone's cellphone.

And since everyone seems to think that whatever happened to MC
was a criminal act (and I'm afraid I do too), there is no way I would be able to get out of the car at night or get into the car in the morning w/out thinking that whoever got him is going to get me.

And where they live is in a rural area
where neighbors are not nearby.
Nor the police for that matter.
No lights....just darkness.

Nope, no way no how.

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Yeah I think most folks feel if this was criminal they wouldn't stay, if they think he ran/wondered off most folks would stay in the house.

Having said that everything was basically in its place, no evidence of a violent crime and nothing stolen. So enough to make one question if a crime was even committed so I can see BC staying put. She may have her doubts as well. This is a real head scratcher (not to make light) and I totally see why she would stay in hopes of MC returning although after this passage of time I think the hope must be diminishing.

 

[LaneGirl]

Or....maybe they have a bead on someone or somebodies and are gathering enough evidence to arrest him/her/them. (And honestly, the family might be the last people I would tell.)

Also, finding MC, whether alive or deceased, is what they may need
for arrests.

I'm not giving up hope that police know more than they are saying. That would also explain why they haven't requested further help from the Texas Rangers or the FBI.


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I hope you're right however it appears it's not even a criminal case at this point.

 

[Razz]

I hope you're right however it appears it's not even a criminal case at this point.

Who have we heard that from?!

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[LaneGirl]

TX Rangers came in for a consult, but said they wouldn't get involved without a criminal case conversion. FBI has also said their hands are tied unless HCSO invites them or calls it criminal.

I don't know how to multiple quote but here is one and Pmerle00 indicated in another post how they are livid that LE isn't classify it as criminal.

ETA - here is her other quote...

"From the family's perspective, we are LIVID at HCSO for not calling this a criminal case and accepting help from the FBI and Texas Rangers. They mishandled things from the very beginning by allowing others onto the scene instead of limiting exposure to LE officials for any amount of time. They also are not being open and honest about things like blood samples sent to labs and timelines of when things have been or are being done. I'm not asking for 100% transparency, but from the outside looking in? They aren't doing near enough to help us find Papaw."

 

[LaneGirl]

I fully understand what you are saying but I just couldn't stay there unless I had a policeman stationed outside, I would be so terrified!

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I think most people feel the way you do.

Honestly that's why most states have a disclosure law when selling property the owner must disclose if someone died or if there was a violent crime that occurred on the property. Some people won't even buy a house if something happened.

I think because there wasn't a lot of evidence (noticeable) of a violent crime, nothing stolen etc., BC feels safe enough. I understand that really.

 

[SavetheQueen]

I think we all need to remember that everything isn't public for the world to see.

BC could very well be speaking on her thoughts and feelings, but they aren't public.

Law enforcement isn't required to be transparent on an open investigation. We don't know all of the facts in this case, and no one is entitled to tell us.

I can understand BC staying in her home. For all we know, she now has security cameras and sensors installed, has someone checking in on her, and has a loaded weapon at her side at all times. Maybe she just is the type of person who isn't afraid.

As for the car, the family member who posts here made it quite clear that it was a family decision to sell the car. We don't know their reasons, and she made it clear that she wasn't going to elaborate on the reasons. That's good enough for me. I feel that she's been more than honest on things that she's been willing to and allowed to share. We're very blessed to have her giving us the information that she's shared. It's definitely provided a clearer insight to things.

We can only speculate on anything that isn't publicly available. We all have our opinions on various things, but at the end of the day, they're just that - our opinions.

We never really know what is going on in the background.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Snoopster]

I think we all need to remember that everything isn't public for the world to see.

BC could very well be speaking on her thoughts and feelings, but they aren't public.

Law enforcement isn't required to be transparent on an open investigation. We don't know all of the facts in this case, and no one is entitled to tell us.

I can understand BC staying in her home. For all we know, she now has security cameras and sensors installed, has someone checking in on her, and has a loaded weapon at her side at all times. Maybe she just is the type of person who is afraid.

As for the car, the family member who posts here made it quite clear that it was a family decision to sell the car. We don't know their reasons, and she made it clear that she wasn't going to elaborate on the reasons. That's good enough for me. I feel that she's been more than honest on things that she's been willing to and allowed to share. We're very blessed to have her giving us the information that she's shared. It's definitely provided a clearer insight to things.

We can only speculate on anything that isn't publicly available. We all have our opinions on various things, but at the end of the day, they're just that - our opinions.

We never really know what is going on in the background.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

Here, here. Great post.

 

[jellybean96]

I believe LE has more info than what has been shared with the family. The sheriff and pawpaw were friends. If my friend went missing and I had the resources to investigate it, I would. There is no doubt it my mind LE is on top of this.

So we know LE has not released iMessages. Why is that? Well it could be there isn't anything there. Or it could be that there IS something there. I am confident that if nothing was there, then they would have already turned them over to family.

My ex husband was a detective, and he would always tell me that when LE is being quiet is when they are doing their best work.

I have seen it on more than one occasion that the family would be the last to know details, because of who LE could - or could not - trust.

 

[Hstevenson86]

Yes, his glasses are missing as well.

Thank you Pmerle00


I may be crazy [emoji51]

 

[Hstevenson86]

Thank you for responding and I respect the family's decision. Now let's all consider the car subject closed and not relevant to the case. Back to work on theories.. we have an amazing membership here and there have been some good theories shared. At the end of the day we just want MC papaw home.!

Yes! Amen! Bring pawpaw home!


I may be crazy [emoji51]

 

[Hstevenson86]

He HAS to have an iMessage account to send IMessages! If you can someway figure that out and log in to any iPhone with his account all messages will pop up immediately. This is how I monitor my sons messages


I may be crazy [emoji51]

 

[Pmerle00]

This "answer" is to several posts on here about how safe BC must feel to stay in the house... Hopefully I will cover that topic in enough depth. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I will answer if I can.

First, I never said she felt safe in the house, only that perhaps her reasons for staying are not out of feelings of security, but out of feelings of hope that he may one day return from whatever trauma he has been through.

Second, I can say with some certainty that she won't be commenting publicly, at least not any time soon. She is majorly distressed still on a daily basis and has MORE than enough to get worked up about without having to worry about watching what she says and how she says it. <3

Also, I will refrain from going into details on the extensive precautions she and others are taking... But know there is much being done to keep her safe, and she is not going at everything alone, but surrounded by friends and family who support her decision to stay there for as often or as long as she wants to and can take it.

I will say that everyone handles and reacts to trauma differently, and I feel we should all respect that even if we don't agree or understand. If what you have to say helps solve something, then by all means, I want you to say it, which I think most of the posts on this topic are truly trying to be helpful and offer something to consider. However, I ask if all you are posting is based on an assumption having never been in this situation, and your comments have no real offer of anything helpful, then consider whether it is worth posting.

 

[Pmerle00]

I believe LE has more info than what has been shared with the family. The sheriff and pawpaw were friends. If my friend went missing and I had the resources to investigate it, I would. There is no doubt it my mind LE is on top of this.

So we know LE has not released iMessages. Why is that? Well it could be there isn't anything there. Or it could be that there IS something there. I am confident that if nothing was there, then they would have already turned them over to family.

My ex husband was a detective, and he would always tell me that when LE is being quiet is when they are doing their best work.

I have seen it on more than one occasion that the family would be the last to know details, because of who LE could - or could not - trust.

Last I heard from LE, they hadn't even requested the iMessage logs, even though the family has urged them to do so, as Apple only keeps them for a certain amount of time. Maybe they have, maybe they found something, but they have been so reluctant to answer any questions or follow up on anything I have suggested, at least, that I find myself doubting that they've even done their part to ask for it.

 

[Pmerle00]

He HAS to have an iMessage account to send IMessages! If you can someway figure that out and log in to any iPhone with his account all messages will pop up immediately. This is how I monitor my sons messages


I may be crazy [emoji51]

Unfortunately, he doesn't have to have one. iMessages do not require an Apple ID, only a phone number and wifi connection on an Apple device. You CAN login with an Apple ID, which will then sync everything to your iCloud account, OR you can use the phone number of the sim card in your phone. You do not have to use an email or Apple ID IF you don't use iCloud. Apple ID IS required if you want to use Facetime or purchases through your account on your phone, which Papaw doesn't do either of those.

Believe me, we have looked into this EXTENSIVELY to try to find an AppleID for Papaw. 1 - he wouldn't know how to set one of those up without help of one of his kids... 2 - he wouldn't be interested in syncing messages to a computer he barely uses for anything... 3 - he doesn't even have an email address... However, you can REQUEST the iMessage logs from Apple with the phone number as the source handle. I explained that to the HCSO in an email and on the phone, see below for a couple of sources.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/using-imessage-without-icloud

"You can use iMessage even with iCloud completely disabled, or even if you’ve never setup an iCloud account at all. If you’re on an iPhone, you don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID if you only want to send and receive iMessages using your cellular phone number; an Apple account is only required to associate email addresses with iMessage. FaceTime works in the exact same manner in terms of phone numbers and Apple IDs."

https://www.quora.com/Does-iMessage-use-your-phone-number-or-Apple-ID

"[FONT=q_serif]Yes. Either. Both.[/FONT]

[FONT=q_serif]I started using [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iMessage[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] with my [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iPod Touch[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] after upgrading to [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iOS 5[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]. Experimentation revealed I could send messages to both [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iPhones (product)[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] users by their mobile phone number, or to "registered" E-mail addresses (congruent with, or alternate aliases for a user's [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]Apple ID[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]), ergo the entire ecosystem of [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iOS Devices[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] can participate - all they have to have is a connection to [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]The Internet[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]."

EMAIL SENT TO HCSO with a link as well:

[/FONT]Good Morning. Hopefully you're not tired of hearing from me yet.


I spoke to xxxxxxxxxxxxxx this morning about the iPhone iMessages, and wanted to pass along an article that explains it a bit.


https://theintercept.com/2016/09/28...sage-contacts-and-may-share-them-with-police/


From the screenshot contained in that article, you can see that the "source handle" is the phone number and not the Apple ID. Papaw doesn't have an Apple ID, because it's only required for Facetime or purchases, which he wouldn't do from his phone.


When you issue a new subpoena for info from Apple, specifically requesting iMessages could also help with location through the IP address that each message is tied to. At the least, this could provide a direction of travel if Papaw had received an iMessage while the phone was in his pocket after he was gone from the residence.

... email continued with a closing that I've not included here with my personal info.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

PMerle00,

First, my prayers are with you and your family as you go through this nightmare.

I'm very worried as I don't feel that PaPaw left on his own.

I do have a couple of questions. If you're not comfortable answering I'll understand.

Had anyone - male or female - shown an unusual and unwanted interest in BC prior to PaPaw's disappearance?

Also, is it true that BC had just returned to work that day after being off for a period of time?

Could PaPaw have been hurt by someone who was interested/obsessed with BC?




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[roadrunnermt]

Unfortunately, he doesn't have to have one. iMessages do not require an Apple ID, only a phone number and wifi connection on an Apple device. You CAN login with an Apple ID, which will then sync everything to your iCloud account, OR you can use the phone number of the sim card in your phone. You do not have to use an email or Apple ID IF you don't use iCloud. Apple ID IS required if you want to use Facetime or purchases through your account on your phone, which Papaw doesn't do either of those.

Believe me, we have looked into this EXTENSIVELY to try to find an AppleID for Papaw. 1 - he wouldn't know how to set one of those up without help of one of his kids... 2 - he wouldn't be interested in syncing messages to a computer he barely uses for anything... 3 - he doesn't even have an email address... However, you can REQUEST the iMessage logs from Apple with the phone number as the source handle. I explained that to the HCSO in an email and on the phone, see below for a couple of sources.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/using-imessage-without-icloud

"You can use iMessage even with iCloud completely disabled, or even if you’ve never setup an iCloud account at all. If you’re on an iPhone, you don’t even need to sign in with an Apple ID if you only want to send and receive iMessages using your cellular phone number; an Apple account is only required to associate email addresses with iMessage. FaceTime works in the exact same manner in terms of phone numbers and Apple IDs."

https://www.quora.com/Does-iMessage-use-your-phone-number-or-Apple-ID

"[FONT=q_serif]Yes. Either. Both.[/FONT]

[FONT=q_serif]I started using [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iMessage[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] with my [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iPod Touch[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] after upgrading to [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iOS 5[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]. Experimentation revealed I could send messages to both [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iPhones (product)[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] users by their mobile phone number, or to "registered" E-mail addresses (congruent with, or alternate aliases for a user's [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]Apple ID[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]), ergo the entire ecosystem of [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]iOS Devices[/FONT][FONT=q_serif] can participate - all they have to have is a connection to [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]The Internet[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]."

EMAIL SENT TO HCSO with a link as well:

[/FONT]Good Morning. Hopefully you're not tired of hearing from me yet.


I spoke to xxxxxxxxxxxxxx this morning about the iPhone iMessages, and wanted to pass along an article that explains it a bit.


https://theintercept.com/2016/09/28...sage-contacts-and-may-share-them-with-police/


From the screenshot contained in that article, you can see that the "source handle" is the phone number and not the Apple ID. Papaw doesn't have an Apple ID, because it's only required for Facetime or purchases, which he wouldn't do from his phone.


When you issue a new subpoena for info from Apple, specifically requesting iMessages could also help with location through the IP address that each message is tied to. At the least, this could provide a direction of travel if Papaw had received an iMessage while the phone was in his pocket after he was gone from the residence.

... email continued with a closing that I've not included here with my personal info.

I assume this has been covered but on the slight chance it hasnt, can your PI not request the Imessages?

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