Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #4

[Sillybilly]

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[Midge Montana]

I just wanted to add a little note here to say THANK-YOU to our Mods. I appreciate the time and effort you all put in here trying to keep the integrity of WS intact. You do a fine job.

 

[CoffeeSleuth]

When MC first disappeared, a lot of us in the area thought it was probably a case of him coming home unexpectedly and surprising would-be robbers in his shop. But then so many shot that theory down because nothing was stolen from the shop. Now I know that the theories, 6 months later, are WAY different and for some very good reasons.

However, does anyone here think it's possible that MC did arrive home and surprise 2 or 3 robbers before they ever even got a chance to take anything. And they hurt him, which was not part of their plan that day, then they had to hurry and do something with his body, (I'm sorry to even type that) so they took him with them and went back to the Dallas area or wherever they came from. (I just say Dallas because years ago our house was broken into and the police told us there were organized groups out of Dallas coming to rural areas to steal while people were at work.)

Does anyone here think this is still a possibility? Or has too much been uncovered that points to it being a planned and very personal crime?

 

[flute4peace]

When MC first disappeared, a lot of us in the area thought it was probably a case of him coming home unexpectedly and surprising would-be robbers in his shop. But then so many shot that theory down because nothing was stolen from the shop. Now I know that the theories, 6 months later, are WAY different and for some very good reasons.

However, does anyone here think it's possible that MC did arrive home and surprise 2 or 3 robbers before they ever even got a chance to take anything. And they hurt him, which was not part of their plan that day, then they had to hurry and do something with his body, (I'm sorry to even type that) so they took him with them and went back to the Dallas area or wherever they came from. (I just say Dallas because years ago our house was broken into and the police told us there were organized groups out of Dallas coming to rural areas to steal while people were at work.)

Does anyone here think this is still a possibility? Or has too much been uncovered that points to it being a planned and very personal crime?

You know, at this point I think it's valid to keep all options, however unlikely they may seem, open to possibility.

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[LaneGirl]

When MC first disappeared, a lot of us in the area thought it was probably a case of him coming home unexpectedly and surprising would-be robbers in his shop. But then so many shot that theory down because nothing was stolen from the shop. Now I know that the theories, 6 months later, are WAY different and for some very good reasons.

However, does anyone here think it's possible that MC did arrive home and surprise 2 or 3 robbers before they ever even got a chance to take anything. And they hurt him, which was not part of their plan that day, then they had to hurry and do something with his body, (I'm sorry to even type that) so they took him with them and went back to the Dallas area or wherever they came from. (I just say Dallas because years ago our house was broken into and the police told us there were organized groups out of Dallas coming to rural areas to steal while people were at work.)

Does anyone here think this is still a possibility? Or has too much been uncovered that points to it being a planned and very personal crime?

RBBM

No I do not think this. If someone is intent on money/theft in my opinion they would have taken something anything to sell/pawn.

Thats just my opinion though.

I have from the start thought this is someone upset with MC for whatever reason. There is no pretense of even stealing something, just a missing man which in my opinion makes it personal.

 

[jellybean96]

When MC first disappeared, a lot of us in the area thought it was probably a case of him coming home unexpectedly and surprising would-be robbers in his shop. But then so many shot that theory down because nothing was stolen from the shop. Now I know that the theories, 6 months later, are WAY different and for some very good reasons.

However, does anyone here think it's possible that MC did arrive home and surprise 2 or 3 robbers before they ever even got a chance to take anything. And they hurt him, which was not part of their plan that day, then they had to hurry and do something with his body, (I'm sorry to even type that) so they took him with them and went back to the Dallas area or wherever they came from. (I just say Dallas because years ago our house was broken into and the police told us there were organized groups out of Dallas coming to rural areas to steal while people were at work.)

Does anyone here think this is still a possibility? Or has too much been uncovered that points to it being a planned and very personal crime?

No I do not think this is a possibility. I believe if this were possible, they would have taken something of value.

 

[CoffeeSleuth]

No I do not think this is a possibility. I believe if this were possible, they would have taken something of value.

But then if they had sold that something of value, it could have connected them to a murder, instead of just being connected to the crime of robbery. Maybe that's something they weren't willing to chance.

Just thinking out loud, and just my opinion...

 

[mrsNKY]

Good post and point. May I ask what your chart would look like theoretically, which theory would your "chart" point too? I agree that there are some scenarios that just do not want to be discussed, like possible suicide. I do tend to wonder if he did in fact commit suicide then where could his body possibly be? That's the only thing that stops that theory in its tracks for me. At first I was definitely leaning towards leaving his life behind on his own, I've personally witnessed this happen in my life by a person close to me. A man a few years younger than pawpaw. He had a wonderful life on the outside, people thought he adored his wife and she him, great kids, beautiful grandchildren, the works. One day he vanished. Never came home from work. His family went to great lengths , almost as much as this family has to find him and assumed he was dead. Nope! He had met a younger woman and up and left everything he knew, moved to another state on a whim with her and that's all she wrote. Now, he did eventually reach out to his family and move back , but not without his new found love. I'm not saying this is what happened here but it has happened before. I don't believe robbery, I can't get on board with that one. It wouldn't even take much to get me onboard with some type of protective custody. I know that's super out there BUT RM did say he was possibly protecting his wife, his wife is absolutely silent in the case, sheriff won't look for him AND he was quickly declared dead. I'm sure that's not the case but that makes more sense to me with the facts than some other scenarios I've read.


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Totally true, however I wonder how he could give up EVERYTHING! I mean, the wife, (Would be understandable from what we have discovered; IMO, But, he seemed to be on another level with his family. And to give that up, and his hobby which would definitely be a big loss to him as well. Many play golf as a hobby, well you can still play no one would have a reason to check you out. Cars would be on a whole other field, there are registrations and licenses. Not to mention at his age, to start over after having lived a relatively quiet life, would be difficult for me. They also state he was a creature of habit that in itself would be easy to mess up after 70 years.

It just seems like a whole life you give up and I have a hard time with him just walking away. That is a lot, and I don't think he would be very happy and would return by this time. He wasn't big on travel from early VI comments. Of course you never know, that's for sure.

I would go with self harm before walking away ( I can't picture this either). Although we can't rule out anything at this point. :Sigh:

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[BeesInMyBonnet]

I half-watched and listened to Dateline last week, and my ears perked up at this part of the episode, which sounded similar to MC's disappearance:

Correspondent: They don't normally call a couple of seasoned homicide detectives to look into a missing person.

Detective 1: They do when there's some suspicious circumstances.

Detective 2: His phone was missing. There was no use of it. We checked his bank accounts from the time that he was missing. We checked his medical insurance to see if he had checked himself into a hospital. That never showed any activity. He was completely dropped off the face of the earth.

Detective 1: He disappeared. . . . We didn't exactly have any . . . answers.

Detective 2: Driving all over the valley, we would have moments in the car where we looked at each other and said, "I think this is a suicide." And then, an hour later, we would interview somebody or something would happen, and we'd go, "I think this is murder." And our feelings and our gut instincts were going different ways very early on, very fast. It was very confusing.

Dateline
Season 25, Episode 46
Air date: 09-15-2017
"Dark Valley"
https://www.nbc.com/dateline/video/dark-valley/3584283

We need these detectives on this case.[emoji53]


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[SavetheQueen]

I half-watched and listened to Dateline last week, and my ears perked up at this part of the episode, which sounded similar to MC's disappearance:

Correspondent: They don't normally call a couple of seasoned homicide detectives to look into a missing person.

Detective 1: They do when there's some suspicious circumstances.

Detective 2: His phone was missing. There was no use of it. We checked his bank accounts from the time that he was missing. We checked his medical insurance to see if he had checked himself into a hospital. That never showed any activity. He was completely dropped off the face of the earth.

Detective 1: He disappeared. . . . We didn't exactly have any . . . answers.

Detective 2: Driving all over the valley, we would have moments in the car where we looked at each other and said, "I think this is a suicide." And then, an hour later, we would interview somebody or something would happen, and we'd go, "I think this is murder." And our feelings and our gut instincts were going different ways very early on, very fast. It was very confusing.

Dateline
Season 25, Episode 46
Air date: 09-15-2017
"Dark Valley"
https://www.nbc.com/dateline/video/dark-valley/3584283

We need these detectives on this case.[emoji53]


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Just WOW. Totally sums up THIS case!


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Pmerle00]

Has it actually been confirmed by HCSO that BC passed the poly or was that info coming from her?

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As far as I know, HCSO has not confirmed this as "fact" to anyone, nor have they disputed it.

 

[Pmerle00]

So I found one website. It is free for personal use - noteapp.com. Here's a little example I did just to play with it.

Thank you! I tried this, Lucid chart, Tableau and even contacted IBM for a recommendation. I wound up going with Mind Meister... now if I can just populate it with enough to be meaningful...

 

[Txteacher1]

When MC first disappeared, a lot of us in the area thought it was probably a case of him coming home unexpectedly and surprising would-be robbers in his shop. But then so many shot that theory down because nothing was stolen from the shop. Now I know that the theories, 6 months later, are WAY different and for some very good reasons.

However, does anyone here think it's possible that MC did arrive home and surprise 2 or 3 robbers before they ever even got a chance to take anything. And they hurt him, which was not part of their plan that day, then they had to hurry and do something with his body, (I'm sorry to even type that) so they took him with them and went back to the Dallas area or wherever they came from. (I just say Dallas because years ago our house was broken into and the police told us there were organized groups out of Dallas coming to rural areas to steal while people were at work.)

Does anyone here think this is still a possibility? Or has too much been uncovered that points to it being a planned and very personal crime?

Also being a local, I agree when his story broke I had the same thought. I honestly figured they would find him with the first few searches. But as I examine the possible scenario, I keep coming back to the thought that the further you drive with a hostage and/or body in the car, the greater your chances of getting pulled over/seen/caught. I have a hard time convincing myself even a gang of people (who most likely would be stealing to fund a drug habit, thus lacking Rhodes Scholar level brain cells) would have the good luck to 1. Pick a house with high dollar cars, tools and shop and leave empty handed.
2. Break in during the middle of the day in an area frocked with farmers, people driving around, postmen delivering mail, neighbors working in the yard and not be seen.
3. Leave virtually no sign of a struggle....if somebody is taking me, Im gonna mess some stuff up...Im gonna grab any and everything I can to throw at them, and Im gonna pull the two-year-old-going-limp-as-a-dishrag stance and they are gonna have to do some serious lifting to get me anywhere. At that point if they shoot, they shoot.
The most likely scenario IMO is either he never made it back from Wal Mart or was lured off by a supposed "friend" or family member and before he realized it, met his demise. All MOO.

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[Pmerle00]

I know a retired Dallas Firefighter who lives in Quinlan who, I'm 99% sure, would be more than happy to help you store those tools, free of cost, if you were to somehow come into possession of them . . . . . js :heartbeat:

I have found out that the LISTED values in the assets are "Papaw's half" of things - still, that is a very low valuation on just about everything. I haven't yet gotten confirmation of whether she only has to deposit what is listed or half of the actual sale price, though - or if she is LIMITED to selling things for that amount.

 

[Pmerle00]

I asked this of the investigator today via email, but thought I'd post it here and see if anyone knows someone working at Verizon??

Has the IMEI number on Papaw's phone been flagged? The IMEI is the number given by the phones maker only to that phone and holds information about that phone with the wireless carrier. It never changes so if the phone is stolen, the carrier knows to deactivate the phone by that number. So if his phone wasn't reported stolen, which I don't think it was, then his IMEI wouldn't be flagged and therefore would still work and perhaps the carrier can get some location information on it. Can you contact Verizon to find out if it can be traced or if it has been turned on under a different name or pre-paid service?

 

[Txteacher1]

Im sitting here watching some stupid movie and just had an epiphany that could explain blood.
Tazer gun...the kind that shoots the dart-like prongs into you. It breaks the skin, and incapacitates you to the point you're not moving so no splatter.
Now the question for those with LE ties or knowledge....who, besides LE can get these? Joe B. Public?

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[Pmerle00]

7. I don't want to speak for PMerle but in my family our parents have had to routinely support one of my siblings over the years. My parents allocated their will accordingly so that this sibling will receive a smaller portion than other siblings as they sort of received part of their inheritance up front.no hard feelings either sibling agrees. This is what parents do.


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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :goodpost:

 

[flute4peace]

I'm sorry to say that after learning more about the lake, I feel like he's in it, weighted down somehow. It's possible that he could have accomplished that on his own, due to the recent revelations about his wife, but I feel it's more likely that he's been put there by someone else.

I also feel that the SO is rejecting outside help because they have something to hide. Doesn't even have to be this specific case (although I do think they treated BC differently than they would Sally Citizen). It could be other things that they want to keep under the rug and having the higher-ups come in could threaten that.

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[Midge Montana]

I asked this of the investigator today via email, but thought I'd post it here and see if anyone knows someone working at Verizon??

Has the IMEI number on Papaw's phone been flagged? The IMEI is the number given by the phones maker only to that phone and holds information about that phone with the wireless carrier. It never changes so if the phone is stolen, the carrier knows to deactivate the phone by that number. So if his phone wasn't reported stolen, which I don't think it was, then his IMEI wouldn't be flagged and therefore would still work and perhaps the carrier can get some location information on it. Can you contact Verizon to find out if it can be traced or if it has been turned on under a different name or pre-paid service?

My brother works at Verizon. I will reach out to him and ask.

 

[Supersnoopy]

I've not said anything as the family does not believe him capable of committing suicide but I've had some experience with this scenario in my family so it is an option I have thought about in Papaw's case.

Total devastation visited our family 30+ years ago. Our firefighter/paramedic was with the Los Angeles fire dept and the adjectives used to describe Papaw could all be applied to him too. Strong, kind, compassionate, playful, loving grandfather, father, husband. One of the most wonderful human beings I've ever known although I was related by marriage.

Sometimes after a cocktail his tongue would loosen up and he would talk about all the horror he had seen in his many years with the LA fire dept. He was a deeply compassionate man and you could tell it had left it's mark on him. Then he would shake those memories off and be his usual good-natured, humorous self.

He loved his wife beyond words. She asked he gave. She went to Hawaii one winter without him. She said they had a fight and he decided not to go with her. He had nothing to say about it...just that he didn't feel like going. Then one night while still in Hawaii she called panicked and asked us to go check their house and see if he was ok because he wasn't answering the phone. There was a note. He had to be found because he didn't want to mess up the house. Fortunately he was found rather quickly.

He had never even been invited to go to Hawaii with her. She had told him they needed time apart. He was grating on her nerves she said because he was retired and always around. But he had discovered she was having an affair and the boyfriend was in Hawaii with her. The boyfriend was also a good friend of his. He couldn't live without her the note said. So he chose not to live. Absolutely no one could believe he could kill himself.

The wife denied the boyfriend was in Hawaii with her but he was living in their house before the funeral even occurred. And she never remarried because she didn't want to lose his pension. This case has brought up a lot of memories for me...some very good ones and some really bad ones.

No offense to any family member reading here. Just wanted to share a personal tragedy that sometimes I still have a hard time believing actually happened.

I am very sorry for your loss. What a touching story. He sounded like a wonderful man.