TX - Multiple Dallas Police Officers shot during downtown protest, 7/7/16 #2

[AngelWings444]

Chief Brown was on State of the Union this morning. He's an incredible man.

https://youtu.be/S3QtUSfFVYQ

 

[human]

Good article by a distinguished black man-- Leonard Pitts, Jr.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/4096090-155/pitts-america-has-gone-mad-and

 

[ninij9]

And I do not understand what the problem is in understanding that today in America white people still may have more power (and there are numerically just more white people than any other group) but nearly EVERY group has enough power to negatively affect others via racism, or to choose to positively affect social dialogue and influence societal change. We have not just a black president and attorney general but many black and brown legislators, mayors, police chiefs, military officers, business owners, authors, musicians, athletes with huge platforms, etc., etc., etc. That is VERY different than the way the world was even 40 years ago, but it is the way it is now.

There is no group of people in America today more racist than another, and the racism of no group is benign. This week it was very publicly shown just how deadly it can be. We don't yet know if racism motivated the shootings in LA or MN but we DO know it was the motivation of the Dallas shooter.

We are all accountable for how we treat others in society around us. We all must be committed to challenging our own assumptions first, BEFORE we think it is our job to go around pointing the finger at everyone else. Value signaling may feel good, and we've all probably stooped to that at one point or another, and probably even on these threads, but when it is just used to mask ignorance and as a way to deflect from uncomfortable challenges, it harms the causes of justice and equality and unity and reinforces the obstacles to peace.

Some of the newer movements discussed here seem like maybe they get that. I don't doubt there won't be some in our country who are determined to be the Archie Bunkers of their own time, hopelessly insistent on living in the past, shaking their fist at a world where their verbal daggers have lost their potency. I admit that every day I find it a little harder to have sympathy for them, whatever 'side' of any debate they are on.

This is such a great post. I thank you.

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[pepper 34]

Originally Posted by pepper 34
Imo it boils down to something said a long time ago... "All men are created equal." However, I think the real problem is, that in this day and age, it has come to be that almost anything a person can say will be most positively misconstrued and complained about by others. Here... we would have people point fingers and shout labels such as "Misogyny! All MEN? Only men? Not WOMEN?" I think it has become almost the norm among many to jump to conclusions without really studying a situation or the real meaning of another's words and then refuse to change their minds in the face of eventual facts (either way; either "side.") Example would be... the immediate condemnation (by some) towards the police who killed the 2 black men in Louisiana and Minnesota. A review of the deaths is taking place and there may be legal action, if warranted, but the condemnation began just seconds after the deaths of those 2 men. No "innocent until proven guilty" for those who MAY have felt compelled to shoot to protect themselves. No, the police are automatically guilty to some people.... and they will NEVER change their minds no matter what they read or hear if they don't want to read or hear it and if it better suits their own agendas to continue to think as they concluded immediately. Personally, I have to study a situation longer than a few seconds before I can know what I can believe. I can't assume or compare to any other case. I have to face each incident that happens completely on it's own merits. At the same time, when I hear "All men are created equal" I can accept that this was written a long time ago and the value of the statement includes all people in this day and age. I don't have to go off on a long harangue about "fat-pig white men and their hate for women." I don't know when or why, it seems to me, many people around the world have become people who immediately react instead of observing, learning, listening and coming to well-thought-out conclusions before shouting out what they decide the moment they hear a "news" announcement. Have we become so used to hate that we LIKE to feed our hate every day... steady diet of more hate? Even our own president reacts this way imo. It is not a good way to think imo. Innocent people die because of this way of thinking as they did just a few days ago... and here I sit waiting to read about more deaths any time now.... Imo, even the news agencies are playing with fire and I am personally very heart-sick about it.



CARIIS replied: "They rarely are found guilty of anything - thats the problem moo"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My meaning was that the police are assumed by many people to be guilty BEFORE any investigation is done.... they are often deemed guilty within minutes of people hearing a news story. As for how many police officers are found guilty AFTER investigation and a visit before a court room judge... I have no idea or statistics to draw any conclusions. If it is true that "they are rarely found guilty of anything" ... I don't know if that is the problem because I don't know if they SHOULD have been found guilty of anything. I can't assume a police officer being found "not guilty" means he really was guilty but the legal system or investigators chose to let him off the hook. That has been my main message in many of my comments. I don't assume according to my emotional feelings and because I feel better thinking this way or that way. I have to have the facts to my own satisfaction. Moo means "my opinion." I don't have an opinion because I don't know what the facts are in each and every case. So, I'd have to say, "NO" = no opinion. I am not trying to be snarky or rude here. I really just don't know.

 

[ninij9]

A few weeks ago a college student from a family I know and admire well, went into Chicago to attend a party. He left early because he had work the next day. As he approached his car, he was set upon by four other young men. He did what they told him to do: he gave them his watch, his wallet, and laid down so they could remove his shoes. They then proceed to kick him mercilessly...aiming for his head and gut over and over... knocking out his teeth...just one vicious kick after another to a young man who had given no resistance. The victim and his assailants were all Black.

Always missing from the conversation about police encounters is the hellholes that so many of our cities have become. Places we dare not enter after dark, and Black, White or Green have to have that "other talk" with our kids: stay away! Because of poverty many are condemned to live in these heinous areas, through no fault of their own. Shopkeepers try to service these neighborhoods and eke out small livings for themselves and their families. Often "gentle giants" like Micheal Brown push in, steal their merchandise and bully and threaten them into taking a loss. Shops are looted , merchandise stolen...and the shopkeepers close up and leave, causing more hardship.

But police put on a uniform everyday and try to deal with the gangs, the bullies, the tough guys who terrorize to TAKE what they covet. The MSM tries to imply that these events happen in Mayberry RFD where gentle souls are just taking a Sunday drive. Our President, who wisely implores us after horrific terror attacks to never blame ALL Muslims, wait for facts, blah, blah. But he NEVER makes that his first statement after a police killing. Why not apply the same tone, rhetoric, and reasoning?

We DO not walk a mile in the shoes of the police who deal with the element that kicked a young man....of their color...for SPORT. We imagine the populations of these dangerous areas as gentle disenfranchised souls, preyed on for no reason. We are forbidden to talk about the truth of these neighborhoods by political correctness. ALL sympathy must be directed ONE WAY only...never to the young police officier trying to get home to his family.

That's what our young friend was trying to do that night. Just trying to get home, get some sleep, and go to work the next day. Instead he spent days in the hospital. But he was lucky. Over 100 souls lost their lives in Chicago that weekend. It's a killing zone...and it's not police doing THOSE killings!

We must speak up and stop being intimidated by political correctness...to make those who think Kumbya is all we need. It's time for responsibility to be TAKEN by all of us, ALL of us...not just fingers pointed one way. Our cities have had money poured into them for generations to address a problem that has gotten in NO WAY BETTER...for all the sympathy, hard work, and tax dollars.

Another great post today. Ty. Wow, if WebSleuthers ruled the world....

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[mpnola]

Yet people still deny and justify why POC are deserving of being treated as less. Why? I know many whites who know zero people of color yet they despise them. Why? I imgine many whites have never even been to the home of or had a POC to their home. It is all very strange to me.

(snipped by me)

I think this is a pathological misconception of reality. Do you really think that the majority of white people (or any people!) feel people of color deserve to be treated as less? Much less justify it? Is that really what you believe? You think everyone here thinks another group deserves to be treated as less. Think about that. I have to disagree. I do not think we have a group of such hateful and ignorant people here. Do they exist? Yes. Do they speak for the majority of humans? Not a chance in hell.

I am quite offended by the generalizations against white people. We don't know any people of color? Come on. That seems almost impossible. My very BEST friend was black. She heart breakingly died from medical complications a couple of years ago. She was my heart, my soul and I wish she was here today so I could talk to her, eat dinner with her, ride around town and laugh with her. Yet, you assume that "we" want others treated as less and despise them. I would have flipped out on someone if they treated her badly. And yet, in all of my best friend years with her, no one ever looked at us cross. This world full of people who think she should be treated as less, as you say, somehow never even gave her a hateful glance as we sat in Applebee's. I will never get over her, but I am accused of thinking she deserved to be treated as less than me. Horrible.

I do not think this type of hateful generalizations are helpful. The exact thing that is being spoken out against--- people thinking a group is "less than"--- is exactly what is happening to another group. The assertion is that white people are "less than" because they think black people deserve to be mistreated. The majority of white people are not so hateful and ignorant. Please don't speak of us in such a way. I do not ever want to be associated with hate. To assume ALL (or most) white people are x is just as dangerous as assuming ALL (or most) black people are y. The consequences of that kind of thinking are tragic.

 

[Viper]

Good article by a distinguished black man-- Leonard Pitts, Jr.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/4096090-155/pitts-america-has-gone-mad-and

Hmm... Seems he's done enough research and deliberation this morning while enjoying a cruise of Greece to find several police officers guilty of murdering two innocent black men. I stopped reading when he delivered his verdict.

 

[Viper]

Enjoy your Sunday everyone, need to get away for a bit. :smile:

 

[human]

Hmm... Seems he's done enough research and deliberation this morning while enjoying a cruise of Greece to find several police officers guilty of murdering two innocent black men. I stopped reading when he delivered his verdict.

Perhaps it would have been good to read the whole thing then before delivering a verdict on what he is saying?

 

[stmarysmead]

We watch the news...The police chief steps up to the podium. More times than not...he's Black.
The Mayor steps up to the Podium. Often, he's Black too.
In Baltimore, the D.A. Is Black. The Judge who has been acquitting the police she charged...he's Black too.
The Attorney General of the United States for the past eight years has been Black
The President of the United States is Black.
But somehow, ALL this evidence of the shift and sharing of power makes no difference in the quality of life, safety of our streets, or the levels of crime in too many of our cities? And even though the powerful are often of the same race, "racism" is claimed to be the cause of the violence?

Now we are scolded that we are not allowed to say "All lives matter."

I see all this power and leadership shifting and yet, why hasnt that changed ANYTHING?

Why is nothing changing for the better...why are the same fingers being pointed...the same accusations made? It seems that nothing is ever going to be...enough.

 

[galiuro]

Perhaps it would have been good to read the whole thing then before delivering a verdict on what he is saying?

Why? He has already delivered his verdict on the officers without knowing the full situation of what happened.

 

[human]

Why? He has already delivered his verdict on the officers without knowing the full situation of what happened.

Did you read the article to see what he was saying?

 

[kimlynn]

Exactly. US has a highly armed populace. Not so much in Europe and many other countries.

Gee...if only there was a way to change this. Sandy Hook and Orlando, no response. Maybe this episode will make the difference. IMO

 

[barcode]

Perhaps it would have been good to read the whole thing then before delivering a verdict on what he is saying?

I hope when I write my article you will include by a very distinguished white man and good looking too!

Actually I liked how he frowned on the guy who thought it appropriate to carry an AR15 to event. Don Lemon also got on him, said I have a reason to wear a belt, I do not have to but I choose to because it holds my pants up. Why did you feel it was necessary to carry an AR15 to a public event?

 

[human]

I hope when I write my article you will include by a very distinguished white man and good looking too!

Actually I liked how he frowned on the guy who thought it appropriate to carry an AR15 to event. Don Lemon also got on him, said I have a reason to wear a belt, I do not have to but I choose to because it holds my pants up. Why did you feel it was necessary to carry an AR15 to a public event?

Hm. Do you have a picture?

I am laughing inside but with tears. Even a distinguished black man cannot be accepted for what he says. Not aimed at you.

 

[galiuro]

Did you read the article to see what he was saying?

I did. I did not find it persuasive. He whines about speaking out being 'deligitimized'...and you bet, I am going to delegitimize a movement that continues to shut down highways at best and to attack the cops that are there to protect them and the property and lives of other people not involved in said protests.

So he starts with delivering his verdict with a mere sliver of evidence and goes on to end with the protests. Pretty standard fare, nothing new.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Chief Brown was on State of the Union this morning. He's an incredible man.

https://youtu.be/S3QtUSfFVYQ

Part 1 of that interview:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o516LyCt4nU

 

[Hope4More]

I remember quite early on in this same thread, you were concerned about if the officers were getting paid when they were waiting at hospitals etc while this was all unraveling.

I think the BLM movement should be presented with a bill for all of the policing hours required for all of their protests, how would this sit with you? Every single night in so many cities across our nation, officers are really wasting much more time IMO than the few hours you were talking about when this unfolded.

Or, the bills for that policing can be added to the civil liability of rascist cops, especially those who use lethal force on unarmed and/or unresisting blacks.

Or, better yet, maybe the most just, efficient, cost effective, and life saving approach for police departments nationwide is to adopt--immediately-- a zero tolerance for racism or excessive force policy.

Both BLM ---AND COPS-- have said REPEATEDLY that bad cops jeopardize blue as much as black.

If that simple reality isn't being heard by some, IMO, it's a willful tuning out, and part of the problem.

 

[pepper 34]

Hmm... Seems he's done enough research and deliberation this morning while enjoying a cruise of Greece to find several police officers guilty of murdering two innocent black men. I stopped reading when he delivered his verdict.

From the article and I stopped reading at that point...
"Two more black men shot down for no good reason in a country that still insists — with righteous indignation, yet — upon equating black men with danger."

Yup... they took a poll and, yes siree-Bob, it's the whole country, alright....
Right down to the very last person.
And that, pretty much sums up why and when I personally will abandon an article. I used to read all the way through an article like that but now I don't bother. I'm tired of people trying to make me feel bad due to or feel guilty over what they assume I think and feel towards others or because of the color of my skin.

PS... I was wrong to ignore the article because I didn't like something he said so I went back and read every word. This isn't Facebook and I should have known there was something valuable to learn in reading something someone else posted. There certainly was and I think you for posting it, Viper. While feeling anger and Impatience... this will never be a good way to learn anything. I must keep an open mind always... if the door is not wide open, almost any breeze can slam it shut.

 

[stmarysmead]

Or, the bills for that policing can be added to the civil liability of rascist cops, especially those who use lethal force on unarmed and/or unresisting blacks.

Or, better yet, maybe the most just, efficient, cost effective, and life saving approach for police departments nationwide is to adopt--immediately-- a zero tolerance for racism or excessive force policy.

Both BLM ---AND COPS-- have said REPEATEDLY that bad cops jeopardize blue as much as black.

If that simple reality isn't being heard by some, IMO, it's a willful tuning out, and part of the problem.

How about these neighborhoods and these Leaders adopting a zero tolerance for the gang culture, the violence, and the excessive force that have made parts of our cities unsafe for any of us...of any race. You can correct the police but if you continue to do nothing about the violence that is the major killer of Black Youth...you are condemning more to die.

How many Black youth died last week at the hands of other Blacks? Compare that with police killings....no contest. So what do you achieve? God help the poor who must live among this BLack on Black violence...do they love their kids say less? Do they grieve any less? Are there fundraisers making those grieving families rich? No, they are ignored because the problem is embarrassing. We aren't supposed to talk about what we ALL know.

The problem is...it's easy to point fingers at the Police. But it's HARD to figure out how to save the children in these neighborhoods. Black mayors, Black police Chiefs, Black judges, Black DAs...money spent for generations...but, even together, we can't solve it.

So we turn away. And we focus on the police.We turn our anger at our OWN impotence on the ones that are there trying to save those lives. Yes, there's a few bad apples...but there are many more "bad apples" killing and terrorizing in those neighborhoods every weekend. This is the hypocrisy that must be faced. We should all want those kids to live. We want our cities back. Focusing ONLY on the police is a travesty.