Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3

[CronesEye]

Sadly, this officer has a habit of putting down prettier, younger, more popular service members. She was not very well liked by her fellow female service members. The only way she got attention was from trying hard to be "one of the boys."

This is exactly what I was wondering. I recall a Women's Studies professor educating a group of advocates that there are is a certain type of woman who ascends to power by throwing other women under the bus. She would rather be with and identify with the male power group and deny other women equality. I don't know the woman but sounds like a classic fit. Really a rather weak woman, when you think about it. Abusive. Self centered, not a leader and not community minded or patriotic at all. MOO. It's a constitutional thing -liberty, equality and justice for all. Really she is a Benedict Arnold. Again, MOO.

No. Women should never have to experience any type of sexual harassment in the military, but I have seen a few put up with all sorts of stuff to maintain their job. No. We will boldly go into the future with equality. The human spirit will always strive to manifest these greater truths. VG will never be forgotten, but that other woman will be.

One step at a time, we shall move forward until one day it would be unthinkable for a female troop to be murdered on her own base. It's our only path. It's in our constitution, if we can't get there we/they are a lie.

Happy fourth of July Vanessa, we are fighting for you and always will. Thank you for your service, for forging a way for future female troops, for modeling amazing courage.

 

[lamlawindy]

I posted about this earlier, IMO this was a sex/violence murder and hide the body by an individual, like very many other sad cases I've followed on here. Here's a very small list, off the top of my head:

Dr. Suzanne Eaton
Mollie Tibbets
Carla Stephaniak
Kim Wall
Amelie Sakkalis
Grace Millane

OK. I read your earlier post. It's definitely possible that a rape/murder occurred because of a rejected advance. However, using the same logic, it could be a case of manslaughter instead, not murder: he gets enraged after being rejected, kills her in a fit of rage, then hides her body. I'm not sure which theory is right at this point, given the sparse evidence released at this point.

 

[CronesEye]

I agree.
IMO, it sounds as if this attitude is deeply ingrained in the culture.
I am at a loss to know how to 'fix' it.

You speak up and don't accept it. It is a paramount goal/achievement. I have seen women in training put up with all sorts of crap so they don't loose training. No job is worth that.

Sad, but a male counterpart doesn't have to sacrifice training/job to not be harassed.

 

[Satchie]

Sorry, not clear, I mean do you believe CA that VG was threatening AR to reveal an affair and killed her because of it.

Or do you believe VGs sister, mother and friends report that she has was being harrassed and was trying to handle it.

I don't see it as either/or. I guess I see it as probably neither.

I don't think it's known what CA said. I think that's just rumour, so no, I don't believe it, or disbelieve it, it's just rumour. Regardless, IMO, when a man kills an attractive young woman in these kinds of circumstances , he may use any sort of excuse to try to make it sound rational, but the motive is really some kind of sexual sadism.

Of course I believe her family, that she discussed her harassment issue with them. They reported that she stated she'd been harrassed by a sergeant at some point (we don't know when this conversation happened, do we?). The man suspected of killing her was not a sergeant. So, IMO, it isn't likely relevant to her death, except to the degree that she was a very attractive young woman and probably attracted male attention wherever she went. Tragically, IMO, she attracted the attention of a very dangerous man who concocted a plot to fulfill his sadistic fantasies.

IMO it's not at all unusual for a family to wrack their memories for any clues to what happened, they're desperately searching for answers. They're also thinking "could we have stopped this from happening, could we have protected her". Very easy in that circumstance, to spin out an elaborate theory of murder and cover-up, which is not related to what actually happened.

MOO

 

[rkendmar]

You speak up and don't accept it. It is a paramount goal/achievement. I have seen women in training put up with all sorts of crap so they don't loose training. No job is worth that.

Sad, but a male counterpart doesn't have to sacrifice training/job to not be harassed.

Yes, I agree that speaking up and not accepting abuse is necessary.
However, there has to be some way to protect the safety of those who do report.
I understand that the military has no laws protecting 'whistle-blowers.'
MOO.

 

[CronesEye]

Vanessa said the harassers were like a gang, so that makes me think that there were at least three of them. ADR may have been the main one.
-
We may never know because even though keeping a close watch on ADR and keeping him away from guns was CID's highest priority, he nevertheless managed to slip away and off himself. I'm sure the CID brass and Ft. Hood brass are very upset about the lost opportunity to put him on trial.

I think allowing AR to go the homicide>suicide route let Ft. Hood brass off the hook. It allows room to fudge. Both Ft. Hood brass and CA have room to fudge and make stuff up because AR is no longer available to question. Now they control the narrative. Convenient. It is the best they could hope for.

 

[CronesEye]

Yes, I agree that speaking up and not accepting abuse is necessary.
However, there has to be some way to protect the safety of those who do report.
I understand that the military has no laws protecting 'whistle-blowers.'
MOO.

I actually got corrected on whistle blower protections in the military as they seem moot. And practically they are, it will take a very long time for them to be applied but another member posted that legislation for me.
Laws get established but it is the prevailing culture that dictates whether or not they are applied. Change takes generations to take effect. Just because there is a law, doesn't mean there is protection as people are the ones who decide whether or not it will be followed.

For instance I have been told by troops right to my face that just because a woman is now allowed in a certain MOS doesn't mean she will make it even if she can pass physical muster. Let's say she has to do a certain PT test. Well I have had troops tell me they will all stand there and say she didn't make it, didn't pass. They will have each others back. yup. That was said right to my face. Not too long ago. And I am old. It's why I am so persistent on this and really hesitated to even look at this case. It brings up a lot of stuff for me.

It's fourth of July. VG should be here celebrating with her friends, family. I am going to write some letters. Because you are right, there has to be some way to protect the safety of those who report. Not just in word, but in practice.

https://www.in.ng.mil/Portals/33/Re....C.,or preparing any protected communications.

Instituted in 1988. About 20 years old. After my superior followed me around with a knife constantly threatening my life on the job in front of others. In the military. #Iamvanessaguillen.

 

[MsBetsy]

OK. I read your earlier post. It's definitely possible that a rape/murder occurred because of a rejected advance. However, using the same logic, it could be a case of manslaughter instead, not murder: he gets enraged after being rejected, kills her in a fit of rage, then hides her body. I'm not sure which theory is right at this point, given the sparse evidence released at this point.

According to his girlfriend, Vanessa saw pictures of CA on his phone and threatened to report him for adultery. He told her he wasn't going to let her ruin his career and struck her repeatedly in the head with a hammer.

There was allegedly blood all over the armory room but he managed to clean up the crime scene in 43 minutes without anybody ever noticing a thing. Either he didn't leave behind a trace of blood, or they never looked for it.

 

[CronesEye]

Whoa! Great catch there, CronesEye.

I'm kind of new here and don't know how to get a screen capture of that like DaveF always does. I am afraid the military will take down the picture and the link won't exist in the future. Could you post it in one of those little screen shots or miniature pictures that comes up enlarged in another tab, so it doesn't get lost?

 

[gliving]

Wait. So you're saying that you believe that a different motive for the murder existed? What motive would that be?

I believe Vanessa was sexually assaulted/harassed. No doubt in my mind. I also think she learned about some kind of side hustle AR had going on. Something she wanted no part of. Something that would cost him his career if she talked.

Does anyone else think it's weird that we're not hearing more about Aaron David Robinson? This man> who killed Vanessa.

 

[CronesEye]

According to his girlfriend, Vanessa saw pictures of CA on his phone and threatened to report him for adultery. He told her he wasn't going to let her ruin his career and struck her repeatedly in the head with a hammer.

There was allegedly blood all over the armory room but he managed to clean up the crime scene in 43 minutes without anybody ever noticing a thing. Either he didn't leave behind a trace of blood, or they never looked for it.

I simply can't take CA's word on this (VG seeing pictures of CA on ARs phone) or the military claiming VG never experienced harassment. I don't know what happened. I think it is much more complex than one simple motive. I am sure CA will lie to make her involvement less critical. I would question anything CA says. And when you bring up all that blood - wow, that should have been looked at/for right away. Who was ARs superior? Someone who had his back and wasn't going to look at anything too closely?

 

[CronesEye]

I believe Vanessa was sexually assaulted/harassed. No doubt in my mind. I also think she learned about some kind of side hustle AR had going on. Something she wanted no part of. Something that would cost him his career if she talked.

Does anyone else think it's weird that we're not hearing more about Aaron David Robinson? This man> who killed Vanessa.

How do you put a picture in a post?

 

[CronesEye]

I believe Vanessa was sexually assaulted/harassed. No doubt in my mind. I also think she learned about some kind of side hustle AR had going on. Something she wanted no part of. Something that would cost him his career if she talked.

Does anyone else think it's weird that we're not hearing more about Aaron David Robinson? This man> who killed Vanessa.

It seems a bit much to murder someone for adultery, loss of benefits, career, however if AR was committing a serious crime like embezzling weapons, that could get him in serious trouble if found out. I am also wondering if he and CA aren't somewhat sadistic because CA sounds pretty twisted on some of her social media.

What side hustle do you think AR could have possibly been involved in?

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't see it as either/or. I guess I see it as probably neither.

I don't think it's known what CA said. I think that's just rumour, so no, I don't believe it, or disbelieve it, it's just rumour. Regardless, IMO, when a man kills an attractive young woman in these kinds of circumstances , he may use any sort of excuse to try to make it sound rational, but the motive is really some kind of sexual sadism.

Of course I believe her family, that she discussed her harassment issue with them. They reported that she stated she'd been harrassed by a sergeant at some point (we don't know when this conversation happened, do we?). The man suspected of killing her was not a sergeant. So, IMO, it isn't likely relevant to her death, except to the degree that she was a very attractive young woman and probably attracted male attention wherever she went. Tragically, IMO, she attracted the attention of a very dangerous man who concocted a plot to fulfill his sadistic fantasies.

IMO it's not at all unusual for a family to wrack their memories for any clues to what happened, they're desperately searching for answers. They're also thinking "could we have stopped this from happening, could we have protected her". Very easy in that circumstance, to spin out an elaborate theory of murder and cover-up, which is not related to what actually happened.

MOO

According to her mother, Vanessa told her about the sexual harassment shortly before she disappeared. At one point she said it was three weeks before she went missing. He was described as her superior and she was afraid to report him for that reason. The attorney identified Robinson as the person who walked in and sat down while she was showering and made comments to her while she was jogging.

According to the affidavit, CA told investigators that he killed her because she was going to report his affair with a married women.

I think that was the story Robinson told her. It's just not believable that Vanessa would be looking through his phone and it's not likely he would admit that he made advances towards her. Either that or she knew and was jealous and didn't want to admit it. She seemed to be more than willing to help him dismember and burn the body. She made several references on SM to fire and ashes after the murder.

Apparently Aguilar called his phone several times that day. I wonder what those conversations were and at what point he told her about the murder. According to her, he asked for her help once he got to the disposal site near the river.

 

[MassGuy]

I posted about this earlier, IMO this was a sex/violence murder and hide the body by an individual, like very many other sad cases I've followed on here. Here's a very small list, off the top of my head:

Dr. Suzanne Eaton
Mollie Tibbets
Carla Stephaniak
Kim Wall
Amelie Sakkalis
Grace Millane

Sadly, I can put together a similar list with a completely different set of names.

CID had to put the account relayed by CA, into the affidavit. It does not mean they believe it, and I certainly do not.

This isn’t guns, adultery, or Vanessa knowing some big secret. Just a sicko, doing what countless others have done before, and countless others will do in the future.

One man, one accomplice, and questions that will forever remain unanswered.

 

[CronesEye]

According to her mother, Vanessa told her about the sexual harassment shortly before she disappeared. I think at one point she said it was weeks before she went missing. One of the men was described as her superior and she was afraid to report him for that reason. The attorney identified Robinson as the superior who walked in and sat down while she was showering.

According to the affidavit, CA told investigators that he killed her because she was going to report his affair with a married women.

I think that was the story Robinson told her. It doesn't seem believable that Vanessa would be looking through his phone and it's not likely he would admit that he made advances towards her. Either that or she knew and was jealous and didn't want to admit it. She seemed to be more than willing to help him dismember and burn the body. She made several references on SM to fire and ashes after the murder.

Apparently Aguilar called his phone several times that day. I wonder what those conversations were and at what point he told her about the murder. According to her, he asked for her help once he got to the disposal site near the river.[/QUOTE

 

[Ozoner]

OK. I read your earlier post. It's definitely possible that a rape/murder occurred because of a rejected advance. However, using the same logic, it could be a case of manslaughter instead, not murder: he gets enraged after being rejected, kills her in a fit of rage, then hides her body. I'm not sure which theory is right at this point, given the sparse evidence released at this point.

I don't know where you were a prosecutor, but where I live, killing someone in a rage would still be murder, not manslaughter. It might even be 1st degree, which only requires a moment's premeditation.

I think allowing AR to go the homicide>suicide route let Ft. Hood brass off the hook. It allows room to fudge. Both Ft. Hood brass and CA have room to fudge and make stuff up because AR is no longer available to question. Now they control the narrative. Convenient. It is the best they could hope for.

Agreed. (Hopefully it was obvious that I was being sarcastic in my previous post.)

 

[Inquisitive2018]

Veteran Humor is a public FB page with over 300,000 likes. Virtually everyone in the thread was calling her out. I think she definitely has problems. IMO many of her responses were condescending taunts, it looked to me like she was having fun toying with people and making fun of their outrage. It was so gross. I would rather be taught by Dolores Umbridge.

That page is definitely not my cup of tea. I think she thought more people would agree with what she said based on the page. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but I saw the screenshot of her saying it is not sarcasm, just wow.

 

[lamlawindy]

I don't know where you were a prosecutor, but where I live, killing someone in a rage would still be murder, not manslaughter. It might even be 1st degree, which only requires a moment's premeditation.

Sure. It could be murder, but a killing in "sudden heat" more closely tracks the definition of manslaughter. Whether it's one or the other would be left up to the indicting grand jury or charging prosecutor. Obviously, the suspect is deceased at this point, so it's immaterial.

 

[Inquisitive2018]

I think allowing AR to go the homicide>suicide route let Ft. Hood brass off the hook. It allows room to fudge. Both Ft. Hood brass and CA have room to fudge and make stuff up because AR is no longer available to question. Now they control the narrative. Convenient. It is the best they could hope for.

Yup, and if my interpretation is correct, he was being held at the barracks and not allowed to leave? Then someone definitely turn the other way and let him leave, MOO.
AR is the killer but the culture there certainly made it easier for her death..