Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020

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GordianKnot said:
BBM:

With all due respect to her family, it's beyond ludicrous for them to "suggest" steps like that at this point.

As @MassGuy pointed out previously, this would have been one of the first things that LE did.

This ain't CID or the FBI's first rodeo.

I understand the family is frightened.
I understand the family is frustrated.
I understand the family desperately wants answers related to her disappearance.

But feelings aren't facts.

Here's the bottom line:

This is an active investigation.
The family is NOT entitled to know anything about what evidence, leads, or other case-related activities LE is pursuing at this time.

LE cannot and will not release any info that could potentially jeopardize either the investigation itself, OR a future criminal prosecution of the person responsible for causing her disappearance.

Her family is trying to advocate for VG, which is great.
They need to find more constructive ways to do it, though.
Criticizing LE isn't going to do anything to help find VG.

Not a fan of that tactic.

JMO.
Click to expand...
@GordianKnot
I respect you and look forward to reading your posts but to some extent I have to respectfully disagree in part, with this post.
I am LE so there’s no greater advocate than I, however, this young lady went missing in April. Family have heard very little from LE and what they have, it’s been of no real substance from what we are led to believe. This is their child. Their baby irrespective of age and to some extent, yes they are entitled to know the basics. They are probably saying things like phone records because they have not been told that these are already ‘in hand ‘ and when something Is “off” with an investigation, which it clearly is
in this case because as a member posted up thread “ who goes missing in the mid day hours from a busy military base with no sign since” and this is the issue. Even if there is nothing nefarious happening or even happened prior, the relationship between the victims family and the Military appears strained and you know what @GordianKnot , if this was my daughter, my relationship with LE , then it would be strained too if they tried to be dismissive of my questions and concerns regarding my daughter, my little girl. And certainly from my perspective and what I have seen so far ( although I accept that we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes and wether the family’s perception is accurate , but then likewise we don’t know if LE is being totally transparent when they say that the family has been kept fully involved in and informed of the investigation as much as they can be at this present moment in time ), I am not sure that LE and the MP do have everything in hand and of they do then they are not gibing a reasonable explanation to the family , clearly , because I have been in this situation many many times when being a conduit for investigative information being passed between LE and the victims family and no matter how angry, disappointed, upset etc that the family are, they are always able to be brought down to a reasonable level to enable information exchange, provided you treat them with dignity and respect and acknowledge their concerns and they feel listened to . However, if you are dismissive and come across as treating the family as uneducated in the ways of investigation, then you are going to get this disconnect between them and LE. That is unhelpful all around and leads to the discord that we are witness to right now.
I think as LE, because we are dealing with such situations day in and day out , sometimes we forget that this is the most important time in this families life and they may have never had any dealings whatsoever with LE too, but with all due respect to members of the public, this is just one of many major investigations on their desk, and sometimes the human aspect can go awry and be lost in translation. I’m sorry for my long winded response but certainly from my perspective, the family are hurting deeply and they should be made to feel inclusive with the investigative team, even if the information flow has stagnated, they would probably be accepting of that if the relationship between the two was on a better footing.
Again, I say this to you with my respect for your posts . Regards @Angleterre
 
insearchoflight said:
I had a gut instinct this wasn’t Vanessa.

She’s got to be on base IMO
Click to expand...
BBM
-
Why do you say that? Do vehicles have to go through security checkpoints before leaving the base? Even if they do, I can't believe they would have time to check the trunk of every car.
-
Also, there must be dumpsters on the base from which refuse is collected, right? Is there a particular landfill to which refuse from the base is taken?
 
Angleterre said:
@GordianKnot
I respect you and look forward to reading your posts but to some extent I have to respectfully disagree in part, with this post.
I am LE so there’s no greater advocate than I, however, this young lady went missing in April. Family have heard very little from LE and what they have, it’s been of no real substance from what we are led to believe. This is their child. Their baby irrespective of age and to some extent, yes they are entitled to know the basics. They are probably saying things like phone records because they have not been told that these are already ‘in hand ‘ and when something Is “off” with an investigation, which it clearly is
in this case because as a member posted up thread “ who goes missing in the mid day hours from a busy military base with no sign since” and this is the issue. Even if there is nothing nefarious happening or even happened prior, the relationship between the victims family and the Military appears strained and you know what @GordianKnot , if this was my daughter, my relationship with LE , then it would be strained too if they tried to be dismissive of my questions and concerns regarding my daughter, my little girl. And certainly from my perspective and what I have seen so far ( although I accept that we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes and wether the family’s perception is accurate , but then likewise we don’t know if LE is being totally transparent when they say that the family has been kept fully involved in and informed of the investigation as much as they can be at this present moment in time ), I am not sure that LE and the MP do have everything in hand and of they do then they are not gibing a reasonable explanation to the family , clearly , because I have been in this situation many many times when being a conduit for investigative information being passed between LE and the victims family and no matter how angry, disappointed, upset etc that the family are, they are always able to be brought down to a reasonable level to enable information exchange, provided you treat them with dignity and respect and acknowledge their concerns and they feel listened to . However, if you are dismissive and come across as treating the family as uneducated in the ways of investigation, then you are going to get this disconnect between them and LE. That is unhelpful all around and leads to the discord that we are witness to right now.
I think as LE, because we are dealing with such situations day in and day out , sometimes we forget that this is the most important time in this families life and they may have never had any dealings whatsoever with LE too, but with all due respect to members of the public, this is just one of many major investigations on their desk, and sometimes the human aspect can go awry and be lost in translation. I’m sorry for my long winded response but certainly from my perspective, the family are hurting deeply and they should be made to feel inclusive with the investigative team, even if the information flow has stagnated, they would probably be accepting of that if the relationship between the two was on a better footing.
Again, I say this to you with my respect for your posts . Regards @Angleterre
Click to expand...

My default position is always to give LE the benefit of the doubt, unless they give me reason to doubt them.

Is it possible that CID is being dismissive of the family's concerns?
Yes.
It's possible.

Do I think that's actually the case here?
No.
I do not.

I'm not seeing or hearing anything different from LE in this case than I've seen from LE in other missing person cases I've followed.
Not one thing.

I think CID is working this investigation.
They do not want to jeopardize or compromise this investigation in any way.

I think this is case of the family's perception being their reality.
I think their perception is skewed right now, for a number of reasons.

First of all, they're in a highly charged emotional state, which as I said, is understandable.
But emotions cloud perception.

I don't think that the family's perception of LE is necessarily the reality here.

Additionally, right now, here in the States, there's a definite subset of the population that's heavily invested in fostering an anti-LE sentiment.

The narrative being pushed by that anti-establishment subset is that LEAs are the enemy.

What I'm seeing objectively from the outside looking in, is that VG's family is being used to advance that agenda.

I'm not hopping on board that bus.

JMO.
 
GordianKnot said:
My default position is always to give LE the benefit of the doubt, unless they give me reason to doubt them.

Is it possible that CID is being dismissive of the family's concerns?
Yes.
It's possible.

Do I think that's actually the case here?
No.
I do not.

I'm not seeing or hearing anything different from LE in this case than I've seen from LE in other missing person cases I've followed.
Not one thing.

I think CID is working this investigation.
They do not want to jeopardize or compromise this investigation in any way.

I think this is case of the family's perception being their reality.
I think their perception is skewed right now, for a number of reasons.

First of all, they're in a highly charged emotional state, which as I said, is understandable.
But emotions cloud perception.

I don't think that the family's perception of LE is necessarily the reality here.

Additionally, right now, here in the States, there's a definite subset of the population that's heavily invested in fostering an anti-LE sentiment.

The narrative being pushed by that anti-establishment subset is that LEAs are the enemy.

What I'm seeing objectively from the outside looking in, is that VG's family is being used to advance that agenda.

I'm not hopping on board that bus.

JMO.
Click to expand...
And the fact the they haven't found Vanessa or even named a POI after two months hasn't given you a reason to doubt them?
-
The army has a long history of turning a blind eye to rape by soldiers:
The GIs who raped France: We know about the mass rape of German women by Stalin's soldiers. Now a new book reveals American troops committed thousands of rapes on French women they were 'liberating' | Daily Mail Online
-
Rapes in the US military have also been on the rise:
Despite Efforts, Sexual Assaults Up Nearly 40% in US Military
-
 
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Ozoner said:
And the fact the they haven't found Vanessa or even named a POI after two months hasn't given you a reason to doubt them?
Click to expand...

SABBM:

Not at all.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall a single case I've followed where LE actually named someone a POI.

It's not unusual for investigations of missing persons to take months, even years, before seeing an arrest made.

Obviously, they haven't found her body yet.
Absent her body, this case will have to be built entirely upon circumstantial evidence.
Collecting and analyzing evidence takes time.
It's painstaking work.

CID has not tried to sweep VG's case under the rug.
Instead, what they've done is strongly signal that they suspect foul play in her disappearance:
  • They've enlisted the help of multiple agencies, including local LEAs, the FBI, and the Texas Rangers.
  • They've interviewed over 150 people.
  • They've conducted extensive searches.
  • They've offered a monetary reward for information leading to her recovery.
I'm sure two months feels like an eternity to her family.
This has to be excruciating for them.

But two months is nothing unusual in terms of a criminal investigation.

The fact that LE hasn't located her doesn't mean that they're not working hard to find her.

JMO.
 
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Ozoner said:
BBM
-
Why do you say that? Do vehicles have to go through security checkpoints before leaving the base? Even if they do, I can't believe they would have time to check the trunk of every car.
-
Also, there must be dumpsters on the base from which refuse is collected, right? Is there a particular landfill to which refuse from the base is taken?
Click to expand...
Just looking on a map at that base how massive it is and also large areas where it is wilderness makes me think it’s highly possible she’s still on base. Had this been a small base filled with mostly buildings I might think otherwise. Obviously I don’t know for sure.
 
GordianKnot said:
My default position is always to give LE the benefit of the doubt, unless they give me reason to doubt them.

Is it possible that CID is being dismissive of the family's concerns?
Yes.
It's possible.

Do I think that's actually the case here?
No.
I do not.

I'm not seeing or hearing anything different from LE in this case than I've seen from LE in other missing person cases I've followed.
Not one thing.

I think CID is working this investigation.
They do not want to jeopardize or compromise this investigation in any way.

I think this is case of the family's perception being their reality.
I think their perception is skewed right now, for a number of reasons.

First of all, they're in a highly charged emotional state, which as I said, is understandable.
But emotions cloud perception.

I don't think that the family's perception of LE is necessarily the reality here.

Additionally, right now, here in the States, there's a definite subset of the population that's heavily invested in fostering an anti-LE sentiment.

The narrative being pushed by that anti-establishment subset is that LEAs are the enemy.

What I'm seeing objectively from the outside looking in, is that VG's family is being used to advance that agenda.

I'm not hopping on board that bus.

JMO.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't think VG's case is being used for this "agenda". Her family is just acting like any other hurting family that wants answers. If this was part of the agenda to hate LE, then they would be including the movement that's going on right now, talking bad about the entire administration, hating the military, etc. I don't see them attending to those conversations at all. All they're doing is simply asking questions. They're asking for help from anyone, and asking to look into these other sketchy cases on this base- not asking to hate on LE. Like I said in an earlier post, it's the hispanic culture to act this way. Mom is desperate, and she wants answers.

I have to ask though, you have to at least admit that Fort Hood has had some shady history, no? I mean, Fort Hood doesn't have the greatest credibility. It's really not that hard to automatically feel or assume that they're not doing all they can, when there are some major obvious concerns(ie. Sgt that was harassing her, VG saying she couldn't do anything about it, VG going in on a day where there was no work scheduled, etc.)

I fully support our military and LE, but there are definitely some questions that make me wonder if there is something sinister going on. Latest example is the arrest of a handful of soldiers sex trafficking. JMO.
 
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Who was the tipster on this? Are they eligible for the reward? Do they know something or did they just happen to come across the remains? Very intriguing. At least his mother now has some closure.
Now back to Vanessa. Where is she?
 
AmandaReckonwith said:
6/19/20 Gregory Morales was set to be discharged from the Army at Fort Hood. After 10 months his remains have been found in a field near Kings Court and Florence Road in Killeen TX.
Click to expand...

it is very interesting that a tip was given almost a year later. I wonder if the pressure from VG’s family and friends helped. They have been bringing his story attention, and I think the Army is going to have to do some explaining soon. I’m proud of them. I think they are doing a great job advocating for VG and for others missing/killed/assaulted there at Fort Hood.

Now his mother can finally lay him to rest. Praying for peace for her. I think VG’s case is going to make waves in how things are being handled there.
 
GordianKnot said:
My default position is always to give LE the benefit of the doubt, unless they give me reason to doubt them.

Is it possible that CID is being dismissive of the family's concerns?
Yes.
It's possible.

Do I think that's actually the case here?
No.
I do not.

I'm not seeing or hearing anything different from LE in this case than I've seen from LE in other missing person cases I've followed.
Not one thing.

I think CID is working this investigation.
They do not want to jeopardize or compromise this investigation in any way.

I think this is case of the family's perception being their reality.
I think their perception is skewed right now, for a number of reasons.

First of all, they're in a highly charged emotional state, which as I said, is understandable.
But emotions cloud perception.

I don't think that the family's perception of LE is necessarily the reality here.

Additionally, right now, here in the States, there's a definite subset of the population that's heavily invested in fostering an anti-LE sentiment.

The narrative being pushed by that anti-establishment subset is that LEAs are the enemy.

What I'm seeing objectively from the outside looking in, is that VG's family is being used to advance that agenda.

I'm not hopping on board that bus.

JMO.
Click to expand...
And I appreciate that but to be quite frank neither I or you, know that their perception is skewed and that LE are doing everything possible because there’s also the added difficulty here of the military police being involved and we don’t know what information is being passed from MP to LE
I appreciate you supporting LE, I am LE and I don’t appreciate LE bashing however, I can also see other things at play here and ultimately it matters not what you or I think or feel, this family are missing their baby right now who could be anywhere in any condition including deceased and they just want the best chance of being able to recover her alive if possible and unless the victims charter is vastly different in the USA to the UK which having worked alongside your colleagues, I don’t believe it is, then your are misplaced in your assertion that the victims family have no right to information, when in fact they do, it just can’t be information that puts the integrity of the case at risk however there is procedural information that can be given to the family to make them feel included in the search for their daughter, but if they are asked questions or telling investigators to ensure they do cell phone enquires then it suggests to me that they are not even privy to basic procedural information with regards to all that happens when LE investigate a MFH . And then there’s
The human aspect to the case and irrespective of what your thoughts are, there are some anomalies right now in what we are being told in the press releases versus the strange circumstances surrounding her disappearance. Walk a mile in the families shoes and you would probably meet them half way at the minimum and have some understanding as to why they are questioning the investigative process. I have headed up teams of detectives and even I can see the reasoning behind some of their questions and feelings of frustration right now x
 
Is LE involved in this case or just the MP?

I have not read every article and do not remember. If anyone is covering in Vanessa and/or Gregory's case I think it would be the MP's, not local LE.
JMO
 
nannymo said:
Is LE involved in this case or just the MP?

I have not read every article and do not remember. If anyone is covering in Vanessa and/or Gregory's case I think it would be the MP's, not local LE.
JMO
Click to expand...

I believe from articles from the location stations KWTX and KCEN it is just Ft. Hood CID that I have seen, and KPD (Killeen) got involved in Gregory's case for assistance to Ft. Hood since it was in their (Killeen) jurisdiction
 
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