TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

[Elley Mae]

Only five states — Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oklahoma and Vermont — clearly allow women to declare their wishes regarding pregnancy in their advance directives and to guarantee that their instructions will be followed, it said.

“We follow the state law. Period,” Labbe, the JPS spokeswoman, said last week of the Texas statute. “There is no gray in this.”


http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/09/5473242/family-of-pregnant-brain-dead.html

A report by the Center for Women Policy Studies asserted that state laws with pregnancy exclusions to living wills violate both a woman’s right to refuse life-sustaining treatment and her right to abortion under Roe v. Wade.

By 2011, the number of states that automatically invalidate a pregnant woman’s advance directive had dropped to 12, including Texas, from 22 in 1992, the feminist research center said in an August report.

Slightly more states, however, have statutes that ignore living wills if the fetus is “probably” viable or meets another standard. An additional 14 are silent on the issue, which could leave it to the courts to resolve a conflict.

 

[Elley Mae]

The diminished blood flow to the fetus when the mother collapsed — she is thought to have been passed out for about an hour before receiving care — “may lead to adverse effects over time, but we have no way to predict that,” Dr. Heine said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/health/the-science-behind-brain-death.html?hp&_r=0

 

[faw720]

I can see it. If she was 14 weeks pregnant when she had whatever happened to her happen then that's 26 weeks being hooked to a machine. The cost of that alone would be immense, now how often has this happened before? That a brain dead woman has a baby? Can her body really develop a healthy child without any brain activity from the mother? How will the baby be born?

This sounds like an expensive nightmare and honestly I think that the husband feels that his wife is just being used as a guinea pig right now. That's what I think at least. If she were not pregnant he would be allowed to make the decision, now that she's with child he can not have any say in this? I hope that if he doesn't have any say in it that he at least doesn't have to pay for it.

I soooooo agree with you!! The mother had already said she did not want to be kept alive artificially. Respect her wishes!! People should stop trying to play God. Too many people try to force others to believe as they believe. IMO, there comes a time when we all must die & God & only God should decide when that may be.

I have a DNR & expect it to be honored. If it's not, I promise to come back & haunt whoever disregarded my wishes.:maddening:

 

[MCDRAW]

Your little one is a miracle! You are correct that 24 week gestation babies do survive, but they are wonderful miracles, and rare. For those that do survive, having no life long disabilities that cause suffering.......even more rare. God bless you and your little one.

I was a six and a half month baby weighing 3 lbs. almost 48 years ago. I'm sure my parents were told lots of things. But here I am today a college graduate, healthy and normal. A friend of mine had a 24 week baby weighing 2 lbs and was told she would be mentally retarded. She will be graduating college in may. It may be rare, but there are more of us than you think. I'm hoping this baby beats all odds, and if it's family doesn't want him/her, I hope a loving family will adopt.

 

[K_Z]

I was a six and a half month baby weighing 3 lbs. almost 48 years ago. I'm sure my parents were told lots of things. But here I am today a college graduate, healthy and normal. A friend of mine had a 24 week baby weighing 2 lbs and was told she would be mentally retarded. She will be graduating college in may. It may be rare, but there are more of us than you think. I'm hoping this baby beats all odds, and if it's family doesn't want him/her, I hope a loving family will adopt.

But did your mother have a pulmonary embolism when she was 14 weeks pregnant with you, become brain dead, and forced to be an experimental uterine host body until you were delivered?

Not at all the same situation. Not even close.

And by the way, I am an adoptive mother. And my adopted child has special needs. This is not a regular preemie situation. Not at all. I strongly do not believe that the hospital should not even be trying this experiment.

 

[KateB]

I find it difficult to believe any mother wouldn't go the extreme to save her unborn child.

 

[K_Z]

It astonishes me that the same group of people who wail and decry embryonic stem cell research, think this experiment with a 14 week fetus is perfectly ok. That is a massive disconnect for me.

 

[K_Z]

I find it difficult to believe any mother wouldn't go the extreme to save her unborn child.

The mother isn't going to extremes here. The state is, IMO.

The mother expressed her wishes. The state chose to disregard them, and redefine her situation so that they could remove her rights, and the rights of her husband and family. IMO.

 

[Angelonline]

My friend had a child at 20 weeks pregnant. He was around 1 lb, though I don't remember his exact weight. He was in the hospital for several months after his birth. Up until around age 5 or 6 he was very small for his age and had problems with allergies and asthma. However he is 28 years old today, healthy, of average build, & a college grad with a good job.The hospital where he was born had never had a live baby born before 30 weeks. They flew in doctors because he was too fragile to move to another hospital. He was a miracle baby.

 

[Angelonline]

The mother isn't going to extremes here. The state is, IMO.

The mother expressed her wishes. The state chose to disregard them, and redefine her situation so that they could remove her rights, and the rights of her husband and family. IMO.

I don't know K_Z, all kinds of changes go on when you find yourself pregnant. You start thinking differently. Suddenly there is another being inside you to be concerned about. Many mothers stance on their living will might change if they considered it after they became pregnant. I am astonished that the father (though I am not blaming him in any way for his feelings) wouldn't want the baby as a memory or part of his now deceased wife. Recently a friend of mine lost a child in a car accident. Not long afterwards she found out the child's fiancé was pregnant. She was ecstatic to know that her child can somehow live on thru this new baby. I am wondering does he think the pregnancy (baby) caused her collapse and subsequent brain death? Is he blaming this for the loss of his wife in some way?

 

[K_Z]

Well, I am also a birth parent, so I have personal experience both with adoption, and pregnancy and birth.

I understand that the fetus is a part of the bond between husband, and his now dead wife. If the husband was strongly advocating for this experimental gestation, I might feel differently about what is going on. I'd still believe it was wholly unwise to do this with a 14week fetus, in the face of the pulmonary embolism and prolonged down time.

It's just another thing entirely for the state to come in, remove rights of medical decision making from the victim, and her surviving decision maker husband, based on an outdated law that doesn't even really apply to the situation. It's a political agenda based on a thinly worded interpretation of a technicality. It belongs in a court challenge right up to the SCOTUS, IMO. The state has massively overstepped their bounds in this case, IMO.

I would view the entire situation differently if Marlise had been 22+ weeks pregnant, and they were just buying a little time. This is a major experimental gestational effort that NO ONE consented to. And DID NOT receive review and debate by an ethics committee. It is wholly and completely immoral and unethical, IMO. It's fetal experimentation without IRB approval. IMO.

 

[K_Z]

My friend had a child at 20 weeks pregnant. He was around 1 lb, though I don't remember his exact weight. He was in the hospital for several months after his birth. Up until around age 5 or 6 he was very small for his age and had problems with allergies and asthma. However he is 28 years old today, healthy, of average build, & a college grad with a good job.The hospital where he was born had never had a live baby born before 30 weeks. They flew in doctors because he was too fragile to move to another hospital. He was a miracle baby.

And again, for all of the miracle preemie stories, not a single one of them mirror this situation. The mothers of these miracle babies did not all have a massive PE, with brain death, when they were 14 weeks pregnant. All of the wonderful miracle preemie stories that exist with non-brain dead mothers don't make THIS situation "more" right, IMO. They are apples and oranges.

 

[Angelonline]

And again, for all of the miracle preemie stories, not a single one of them mirror this situation. The mothers of these miracle babies did not all have a massive PE, with brain death, when they were 14 weeks pregnant. All of the wonderful miracle preemie stories that exist with non-brain dead mothers don't make THIS situation "more" right, IMO. They are apples and oranges.

Thanks for your replies. I certainly did not mean to insinuate that you had no experience as a parent as many of us on WS do. And while I somewhat disagree with you on this subject, I certainly respect your right to your opinion. I think varying opinions and friendly debate over such is what makes the world go round.

Do you know if they have said if something related to the pregnancy could have led to the collapse, PE and brain death?

 

[K_Z]

Thanks for your replies. I certainly did not mean to insinuate that you had no experience as a parent as many of us on WS do. And while I somewhat disagree with you on this subject, I certainly respect your right to your opinion. I think varying opinions and friendly debate over such is what makes the world go round.

Do you know if they have said if something related to the pregnancy could have led to the collapse, PE and brain death?

Pregnancy is a state of hypercoagulability. Pathological blood clots are always a possibility, even in women with no history of pathology.

Hypercoagulability in pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deep vein thrombosis has an incidence of one in 1,000 to 2,000 pregnancies in the United States,[2] and is the second most common cause of maternal death in developed countries after bleeding.

And to explain some medical terms, thrombosis is a stationary clot in a vessel. Embolism is a clot on the move. Pulmonary embolism is a clot (usually a big one) that moves from a deep, big vein, to the heart. It travels thru the heart to the pulmonary artery/ ies, and blocks blood flow to the lungs.

Pulmonary embolism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NevadaMom]

As a mother and former resident of Texas this case scares the jeebus out of me. It is staggering to me that they are so willing to intrude so personally with this family considering the typically conservative anti-big government stances they (generally) have in Texas. There have been lots of women's rights fights there recently, and the willingness to regulate a woman's body despite her wishes is a very very VERY slippery slope.

The amount of emotional harm they are doing to her husband and family is obscene. I mean forcing him to sit by and watch his wife being used as an incubator and going against her wishes. When they finally disconnect her he'll have to deal with a child that may not even make it, which will be even more waiting and pain. If the fetus was impacted and survives that's a lifetime of struggles for the husband. All because the state feels the need to regulate another persons body against their will. :banghead:

I'm pretty hard on the "pro-choice" stance, because it's just that - their choice. While someone else may choose differently, and that's fine, this family knew what they wanted and what the woman had wanted. We all know 14 weeks isn't viable, so at the time of her brain death that shouldn't have even been an issue.

:moo: IMO .. All of that.

 

[faw720]

Maybe someone here with medical experience will answer this question for me.

Doesn't our brain control all our bodily functions? If so, & this mother has been brain dead since 14 weeks gestation, how could the baby possibly develop normally? How on earth could the mom possibly provide what the baby needs when she is brain dead?

IMO life is about more than just the ability to intake oxygen & have a beating heart. If the doctors do manage to deliver some kind of blob of human flesh that they call a baby I'm sure they will be able to use machines to maintain so-called life for at least a while. Has anyone ever considered that the baby might be able to experience only the most basic human instincts such hunger, fear, & pain & would have no way to communicate their needs? The baby would surely be confined to a bed or wheel chair all its life & it would be a constant battle against bed sores. What kind of life would that be for the poor child?

Man should not try & play God for their own political agenda. As a resident of Texas I can state with certainty that our politics are controlled by emotion, not logic. IMO, officials are only trying to get votes out of all the Right to Life crowd without any consideration for human suffering including those of the baby.

The father should be allowed to make his own decision & if his decision results in a sin, he will eventually pay the price. Most of us have enough sins of our own that we need to be working on instead of trying to take care of those of other people.

I'll climb down off my soapbox now, but this case has really upset me.

 

[NevadaMom]

Maybe someone here with medical experience will answer this question for me.

Doesn't our brain control all our bodily functions? If so, & this mother has been brain dead since 14 weeks gestation, how could the baby possibly develop normally? How on earth could the mom possibly provide what the baby needs when she is brain dead?

IMO life is about more than just the ability to intake oxygen & have a beating heart. If the doctors do manage to deliver some kind of blob of human flesh that they call a baby I'm sure they will be able to use machines to maintain so-called life for at least a while. Has anyone ever considered that the baby might be able to experience only the most basic human instincts such hunger, fear, & pain & would have no way to communicate their needs? The baby would surely be confined to a bed or wheel chair all its life & it would be a constant battle against bed sores. What kind of life would that be for the poor child?

Man should not try & play God for their own political agenda. As a resident of Texas I can state with certainty that our politics are controlled by emotion, not logic. IMO, officials are only trying to get votes out of all the Right to Life crowd without any consideration for human suffering including those of the baby.

The father should be allowed to make his own decision & if his decision results in a sin, he will eventually pay the price. Most of us have enough sins of our own that we need to be working on instead of trying to take care of those of other people.

I'll climb down off my soapbox now, but this case has really upset me.

Medication. I'm not sure of the specifics, but I believe they are capable of further extending some of the functions of her body that way.

 

[faw720]

Medication. I'm not sure of the specifics, but I believe they are capable of further extending some of the functions of her body that way.

Thanks. I hope you are correct since the state of Texas continues to insist on playing God.

I still believe God & , if necessary, family should be in charge of life & death decisions, not some governmental entity or others with a political or alleged religious agenda.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

I don't know K_Z, all kinds of changes go on when you find yourself pregnant. You start thinking differently. Suddenly there is another being inside you to be concerned about. Many mothers stance on their living will might change if they considered it after they became pregnant. I am astonished that the father (though I am not blaming him in any way for his feelings) wouldn't want the baby as a memory or part of his now deceased wife. Recently a friend of mine lost a child in a car accident. Not long afterwards she found out the child's fiancé was pregnant. She was ecstatic to know that her child can somehow live on thru this new baby. I am wondering does he think the pregnancy (baby) caused her collapse and subsequent brain death? Is he blaming this for the loss of his wife in some way?

The thing is, they already HAVE a child together. Their living, breathing, toddler is already a daily reminder to his father of his dead wife (Because come on, she's dead).

They already have a child who still needs his father's attention and money, and you can't have any money if you are being forced against your will to pay what has to be upwards of a thousand dollars a day for God knows how many weeks. This family is going to be forced to file for bankruptcy, and you just KNOW that while they're in the poor house all the big wig law makers will stare down their noses at them.

Please remind me to never move to Texas. I like my reproductive choices far too much.

 

[KateB]

Only five states — Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oklahoma and Vermont — clearly allow women to declare their wishes regarding pregnancy in their advance directives and to guarantee that their instructions will be followed, it said.

“We follow the state law. Period,” Labbe, the JPS spokeswoman, said last week of the Texas statute. “There is no gray in this.”


http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/09/5473242/family-of-pregnant-brain-dead.html

A report by the Center for Women Policy Studies asserted that state laws with pregnancy exclusions to living wills violate both a woman’s right to refuse life-sustaining treatment and her right to abortion under Roe v. Wade.

By 2011, the number of states that automatically invalidate a pregnant woman’s advance directive had dropped to 12, including Texas, from 22 in 1992, the feminist research center said in an August report.

Slightly more states, however, have statutes that ignore living wills if the fetus is “probably” viable or meets another standard. An additional 14 are silent on the issue, which could leave it to the courts to resolve a conflict.

It's not just Texas law.

Here's Where Your Living Will Can Be Ignored When You're A Pregnant Woman
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/pregnant-living-will-_n_4562964.html