TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

[atthelake]

BBM.

I sincerely ask this with respect. Why?

Why would you "like to know what horribly deformed is", for THIS fetus? Why is it not enough to know that it IS horribly deformed, and was not viable, and gestating in a brain dead woman? I am very puzzled by this, and suspect/ hope that voyeurism or exploitation isn't the motivation.

Is it so that the next time a 14 week pregnant woman dies from a sustained hypoxic/ anoxic episode, we will all know "something" to help science and medicine bring the baby to term in the brain dead mother? IDK what other motivation there could be?

You said it much better than I.

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[MLO]

It never ceases to amaze me how intolerant and judgmental the fanatical "pro-lifers" are of those who are actually LIVING.

Yes, some people seem to only be pro-life whilst that life is in-utero. Once that life grows into a girl and woman they are stripped of all value and respect.

 

[faw720]

Yes, they may. Maybe my post is being confused with Scarlett's -- which focuses on the family wanting to know. It seems that the family has decided that either they don't want to share what they know, or don't want to find out what they don't know. Which, as I said, appears to be their right in this case. I was thinking more of non-family members. Families and docs who might be faced with similar in the future. Just for example, if my dd was life support and I knew that this baby's issues were created by the mother's condition I might make a different decision about wanting my dd on continued life support than if this baby had congenital defects with nothing to do with the mother's condition.

jmo

You have a point. Since I am not a medical professional, I do not know any of the rules applying to medical privacy. Perhaps K_Z or another medical professional can help us out here. My questions are:

1. Since JPS is a teaching hospital will they be allowed to provide detailed information to current & future students?

2. Will doctor's be allowed to share any information in medical journals or at medical conventions?

3. Has this case has been such a disaster, the doctors involved may not want to share the information?

 

[Elley Mae]

I went back to read the first article from this again

snipped
Posted on December 19, 2013
Attorneys said Marlise’s family could try to go to court to get an injunction or restraining order to allow her wishes to be carried out. But most say it would be difficult to find a Texas judge to grant it. They say it’s unlikely a mother’s wishes would be allowed to override a child’s potential.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/With...and-hopes-to-fulfil-her-wishes-236654371.html

bbm I sure would like to know who most and they are. And I hope Erick does not confer with most and they in the future for important decisions.

--------
It’s unclear who will pay for Marlise Muñoz’s hospital expenses. Caplan said he expects the hospital will cover them because of the judge’s ruling. JPS could also be at risk of being sued for emotional damages.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...ife-support-for-pregnant-brain-dead-woman.ece

 

[Karmady]

You have a point. Since I am not a medical professional, I do not know any of the rules applying to medical privacy. Perhaps K_Z or another medical professional can help us out here. My questions are:

1. Since JPS is a teaching hospital will they be allowed to provide detailed information to current & future students?

2. Will doctor's be allowed to share any information in medical journals or at medical conventions?

3. Has this case has been such a disaster, the doctors involved may not want to share the information?

I'm assuming the family has the right to maintain privacy if no autopsy is required. I'm also assuming that family has chosen to exercise that right. I was just commenting on how the information could be useful if they chose otherwise beyond morbid curiousity of spectators. jmo

 

[jjenny]

It never ceases to amaze me how intolerant and judgmental the fanatical "pro-lifers" are of those who are actually LIVING.

There seem to be some very intolerant and judgemental people on the "pro-choice" side as well.

 

[K_Z]

It's unbelievable to me, how many people are calling the father a murderer in SM and comments.

<modsnip>don't seem to be able to think any farther than "it's a fetus", regardless of suffering or viability outside of the womb if born.

Respectfully snipped for focus.

I agree. <modsnip> are really unbalanced in their thinking, IMO, which is really worrisome. There is always the potential for violence with people who think like that, and members of that group have acted irrationally and with violence many time in their history. Beyond civil disobedience and peaceful protests.

Can you imagine how horrible and difficult it would be to have to plan your dear wife's funeral in the midst of this circus? After all he has been through in the past 2 months, and with a 15-16 month old son to care for?

Adding misery to misery, to have to worry about your family, and extended family's safety in the midst of a funeral? Worried that unbalanced individuals might show up to protest your wife's funeral, or target your or your family with violence? Worried about protestors and disruptions and potential violence at calling hours or a memorial service?

Worried that Erick Munoz, or his 16 month old son, could be victims of extremist violence, who see EM as a "murderer"?

Worries that <modsnip> or protestors might defile your wife's grave in the name of the fetus and the <modsnip> pro life movement?

If you were Erick, would you want to place a marker on her grave, knowing it might become a place for <modsnip> to gather and protest or demonstrate?

Can you imagine how awful it is for EM to be pre-emptively criticized for what he MIGHT put on the headstone? Whether or not he chooses to have a headstone, and whether or not he chooses to make a reference to the fetus? These<modsnip> are not reasonable, stable people, IMO. It's sick and twisted, IMO. Reminds me again and again of the intolerance, fanaticism, and misogyny of the middle east regimes like the Taliban. Groupthink. I'm sad and disappointed that this kind of intolerance and <modsnip> exists in America.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Respectfully snipped for focus.

I agree. <modsnip> are really unbalanced in their thinking, IMO, which is really worrisome. There is always the potential for violence with people who think like that, and members of that group have acted irrationally and with violence many time in their history. Beyond civil disobedience and peaceful protests.

Can you imagine how horrible and difficult it would be to have to plan your dear wife's funeral in the midst of this circus? After all he has been through in the past 2 months, and with a 15-16 month old son to care for?

Adding misery to misery, to have to worry about your family, and extended family's safety in the midst of a funeral? Worried that unbalanced individuals might show up to protest your wife's funeral, or target your or your family with violence? Worried about protestors and disruptions and potential violence at calling hours or a memorial service?

Worried that Erick Munoz, or his 16 month old son, could be victims of <modsnip> violence, who see EM as a "murderer"?

Worries that <modsnip> or protestors might defile your wife's grave in the name of the fetus and the <modsnip> pro life movement?

If you were Erick, would you want to place a marker on her grave, knowing it might become a place for <modsnip> to gather and protest or demonstrate?

Can you imagine how awful it is for EM to be pre-emptively criticized for what he MIGHT put on the headstone? Whether or not he chooses to have a headstone, and whether or not he chooses to make a reference to the fetus? These extremists are not reasonable, stable people, IMO. It's sick and twisted, IMO. Reminds me again and again of the intolerance, fanaticism, and misogyny of the middle east regimes like the Taliban. Groupthink. I'm sad and disappointed that this kind of intolerance and ,<modsnip> exists in America.

Thank you for pointing out some things I never even thought of with the grave site.

I'm very glad that it appears the Munoz family has a great deal of support, that will try their best to shield them from protesters.

I am concerned for their safety though, because history has shown what lengths <modsnip> will go to.

The grief of the families loss is enough to have to bear. There has been a great deal of additional pain added to that. To think that some people would go so far as disrespecting their privacy when they said their goodbyes is upsetting just to think about. I am glad that the time was not publicized.

I imagine they will try and do their best to keep the funeral and burial private. I hope the media respects this. They have suffered enough and shouldn't have to deal with a group that would act similar to the "famous" one that frequently protests funerals.

People do have a right to their opinions and beliefs and they have a right to assemble. Like you said so eloquently in a previous post, there are proper ways and places to lawfully conduct these assemblies.

 

[Amster]

This wasn't a "baby" or a "child" but an undeveloped and severely compromised fetus. There is a difference.

My sorrow is for those who are left to live without the wife, daughter and mother who has left this world much too soon.

There is not a difference to me.....I truly, honestly, deeply believe this. So, I will agree to disagree. Respectfully

 

[alliemay]

Maybe it's time to close this thread, it seems like it will only become a platform to debate pro life or pro choice. What's done is done, a family lost a daughter and a BABY, and yes I cried for the loss of the mother, but I think I cried harder for the baby only because for a short time, I felt, even against the odds, that this little one had a chance, founded or unfounded.

 

[NevadaMom]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/for...life-support-for-marlise-munoz-242083601.html

Life support was terminated at 11:29 a.m. Sunday, and she has died, family members told News 8.

Heather King and Jessica Janicek, attorneys for Marlise's husband Erick Muñoz, issued a brief statement to confirm what happened:

"The Muñoz and Machado families will now proceed with the somber task of laying Marlise Muñoz&#8217;s body to rest, and grieving over the great loss that has been suffered. May Marlise Muñoz finally rest in peace, and her family find the strength to complete what has been an unbearably long and arduous journey."

I'm glad to see the hospital did not appeal and cause this family more trauma.


ETA: I'm likely late to the party and didn't read all the way back. :blush:

 

[Only4Justice]

Thank you for this post. Worth repeating.

My thoughts and prayers w Marlise's family.

It's unbelievable to me, how many people are calling the father a murderer in SM and comments.



I wish people would at least take time to educate themselves on brain death and how that would affect the fetus.



People are saying the lawyers are lying about the condition of the fetus. They have no reason to lie. They wouldn't do that and risk looking foolish if things came out different later.



The oxygen, blood flow and nutrition would all be compromised to the baby. I just can't see how people are saying the fetus suffered when the mother died, as apposed to suffering already, or if born would suffer horribly while they did all kinds of things to the baby before it passed due to being extremely premature with multiple complications requiring surgeries.



The extremists don't seem to be able to think any farther than "it's a fetus", regardless of suffering or viability outside of the womb if born.



They post these feel good one in a million stories, but have no clue to the ones that suffer horribly.



Everything I said is moot really, because this should never have happened, never been in the news and no ones body should be experimented on without donating their body, or agreeing to experimental treatment.

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[Linda7NJ]

Sure they can. Rosa Parks broke the law when she refused to sit at the back of the bus. Various government officials have broken the law when they granted marriage licenses to same sex couples. My grandparents broke various laws institued by the Nazis in occupied Holland.

The people who forced Marlise Munoz' body to remain attached to life support may feel they are engaged in a moral act of civil disobedience necessary to save life. Such people feel they are engaged in just as important s life or death srruggle as my grandparents did.

P.S. I am typing on a tablet so forgive my typos.

I so agree.

I made a comment earlier about the hospital was "just following orders" ....I would not have. I would have refused to participate in any way shape or form.
This is not nazi Germany where the penalty is death.


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[txsvicki]

She also lost a potential grandchild.

I'm not sure how old the sibling is, but if there was talk of a baby coming he/she might also be sad and confused about that.

 

[K_Z]

I'm not sure how old the sibling is, but if there was talk of a baby coming he/she might also be sad and confused about that.

Erick and Marlise have a son M, who is about 16 months old now. I read several reports where EM or Marlise's mom said he was confused about mommy being gone, or not coming home, probably asking for her. That was just very heartbreaking to read. This little one won't have his mom again, ever. I think he is probably very sad and confused about this mommy suddenly being gone, and about all of the grown ups being so sad and preoccupied. Daddy not going to work as usual, etc. Marlise was up making him a bottle, according to EM, when she collapsed in the kitchen in the middle of the night. That had to be very sad and confusing, and terrifying for their son, M. I hope he is too young to remember any of that night, and the days that followed. I think he is probably too young to remember any of these terrible 8+ weeks, and I'm thankful for that. He will hear about it, and read about it, when he is older.

I'm not sure if it's realistic to conclude he knew or understood anything about the early pregnancy, back in November when Marlise collapsed, since he would have only been about 13 months old, pretty much a baby himself, still taking a bottle at night. I'm so sad for him to have to grow up without his mother.

 

[Elley Mae]

Brain-dead pregnant woman's husband names fetus

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-27-19-29-07

Erick Munoz said Monday that he named the 23-week-old fetus Nicole, which was his late wife's middle name.

 

[alliemay]

Glad to see this baby was named, but I'm a little confused. If they did not do a c-section and take the baby before they took her off the vent, and tests showed the baby was so deformed that they couldn't even determine the sex of the baby, how do they know the baby was a girl?

 

[faw720]

Glad to see this baby was named, but I'm a little confused. If they did not do a c-section and take the baby before they took her on the vent, and tests showed the baby was so deformed that they couldn't even determine the sex of the baby, how do they know the baby was a girl?

Respectfully, we are NOT aware of everything that happened nor should we be. It is literally none of our business. Erick may have had an autopsy performed. This is a very personal matter. JMO

 

[jjenny]

Glad to see this baby was named, but I'm a little confused. If they did not do a c-section and take the baby before they took her off the vent, and tests showed the baby was so deformed that they couldn't even determine the sex of the baby, how do they know the baby was a girl?

Apparently it was possible to tell, since doctors told him fetus was likely female.
We never heard from the doctors about condition of the fetus, only from the lawyers.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Amniocentesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia