TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes
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SwampMama
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Munoz said doctors at John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth indicated to him that the fetus would likely have been a girl, though his attorneys previously said the fetus suffered from lower body deformation that made it impossible to determine a gender.
"They think it was a female," Munoz said in a brief telephone interview with The Associated Press.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-27-19-29-07
I am glad that he named his daughter so that she can be laid to rest with a name and not just be called "the baby" or the fetus". She is Nicole. i have no doubt that her father and grandparents will grieve for the loss of Baby Nicole and Marlise for many years to come.
"They think it was a female," Munoz said in a brief telephone interview with The Associated Press.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-27-19-29-07
I am glad that he named his daughter so that she can be laid to rest with a name and not just be called "the baby" or the fetus". She is Nicole. i have no doubt that her father and grandparents will grieve for the loss of Baby Nicole and Marlise for many years to come.
K_Z
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Snipped for focus.
I completely agree. I think it's time to consider closing this thread.
I think it could become increasingly time consuming for moderators. We have all had our say. What's done is done. None of us are going to persuade any others to change their views, and there isn't much new to learn or discuss about this particular situation. So, at this point, I think it's probably pointless to continue. I think our discussion here has probably run its course, IMO.
All threads eventually come to an end!
And thank you to all who have posted here. I'm glad we kept the conversation civil, and thank you all for sharing your views and thoughts. WS is, and always has been, a great place for productive, respectful conversation.
wendiesan
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Interestingly, the name Nicole is sometimes (albeit rarely) used as a name for baby boys although it is most commonly thought of as a feminine version of the male name Nicholas. (Originally Greek, the name is a compound of nike (victory) and laos (people). In the Middle Ages variations of this name Nicolet and Nicol were names for male children although today they are seen as feminine names.) The nickname, Nick or Nicky, equally applies to little boys and little girls. According to BabyNamesPedia (http://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Nicole/m) the name Nicole means "victor of the people".
Given that, IIRC, all fetuses start as female (although the DNA of each fetus will contain the elements which will determine the eventual development as male or female), the choice of a name which tends to be feminine would be logical. Furthermore, since doctors could not, at the time when the decision of naming the fetus was made, determine the gender (as far as the public has been told), there was still a chance that the fetus would have been masculine. The name, Nicole, would still be an appropriate choice. This name contains a meaning that was significant to the family and, as Marlise's middle name, it recognizes the baby's heritage. IMO, this was a choice of name that will allow the EM to honour his wife's and his baby's memories as separate entities while recognizing their connection. I think it will eventually let EM's and Marlise's little son, M, name his little sister (or brother), and incorporate her (or his) existence and passing into his own life's story. Since he may not see an image of the baby, IMO, the name will be very important. In addition, JMO, but I think Marlise's family would very much appreciate EM's decision to honour Marlise in this way.
My thoughts are with the Munoz family at this extraordinarily difficult time as they mourn the passing of Nicole and Marlisse.
Elley Mae
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http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Texas-husband-named-brain-dead-wife-s-fetus-5180907.php
Munoz said his wife will be cremated and there are no plans for memorial or funeral services because the family is concerned that protesters would show up.
Munoz said his wife will be cremated and there are no plans for memorial or funeral services because the family is concerned that protesters would show up.
RT51
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How sad that they can't even do a proper funeral if they wished to. I imagine they will have a private invite only memorial on an undisclosed date. My heart goes out to this family. This tragedy has dragged on long enough.
We all need to let go. We've expressed our feelings about the situation, but we need to let this family grieve in private, the way they wish.
It is so easy to say what we would do, but until we've walked a mile in their shoes, we have no say.
wendiesan
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I think that any mention of the baby may have been delayed while EM was in the process of naming MM's and his child, as well as explaining to his son, M, something of what was happening, and coping with the many personal and private details that surround the death of one's spouse and child.
Under less public circumstances, families publish information about the death of loved ones in the Obituary section or with mixed with the Funeral Notices in local papers, church newsletters and in SM notifications. It seemed to me that the press release was issued to inform the public of the result of the court's recent decision. IMO, it was just a press release and not an obituary.
So, I do not believe that the press release to which you refer is the only announcement that will be made. Rather, I think that further announcements will publicly acknowledge the existence of Nicole and express EM's sorrow over her death. The absence of a mention of the baby in one announcement does not by any means indicate that Nicole is unmourned by her (his) nuclear or extended families. Neither is it an indication that Nicole's existence will be ignored in the history of those families.
In my experience, the funerals and memorial services associated with miscarried babies or stillborn babies are very quiet and very private, and very sad. JMO, but I think the situation faced by EM falls into this category. Whether Nicole is laid to rest within the shelter of her (his) mother's body or not, the family deserves to release any relevant information at a time and in a manner of their own choosing.
Why would there be an autopsy? There is no foul play involved, there is no reason at all to conduct an autopsy.
A fetus becomes a baby once it leaves the womb and is viable, not before.
Before that happens it is an empty slate, there is nothing, no comprehension.
Humanity comes when the light of day is first seen, not before. Before that there is nothing, just an empty hard drive.
"Pro-lifers" hold their position because they believe irrationally in a soul, but anyone who has seen someone before and after severe brain damage has to realize that the soul does not exist. If it did, brain damage would not cause a personality to evaporate. We exist entirely as a delicate and complex electro-chemical equilibrium in the brain, when that is destroyed or disrupted, we are gone, or we become someone else.
I don't agree with the bolded. My children were my babies when they were still in the womb. I am sure that Marlise didn't talk about her fetus to people. She talked about her baby.
I didn't say there would be. Clearly there won't. I said one could provide useful information. I think, if a family agrees, an autopsy can be done without any hint of foul play.
jmo
I'm an athiest. My kids were my babies to me long before they were born. Nothing to do with souls.
ScarlettScarpetta
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Im sorry. That is not fact but personal belief. My kids where babies to me the moment the stick turned pink. It has nothing to do with believing in God. It has to do with knowing I was carrying my child. Someone to be protected and nurtured from day one.
They are a person to me from day 1.
Foul play isn't the only reason to conduct an autopsy.
lisser
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I agree. I'm 25 weeks along right now. While I know the medical term is "fetus", I do not say I am pregnant with a fetus. I am pregnant my second baby. I am carrying the life of a child within me, one that has the independent ability to move, hear, feel and respond to external stimuli.
I agree, there is always the possibility that some of these conditions could have been present in the baby before this happened to the mother.
This is not something the husband could even dream of thinking about now...but he is young, his son is young, years down the line he has the opportunity to meet someone else and possibly have more children.
The parents can never have another daughter, but this man, eventually, will have the chance to be happy again one day. And so will their son who is to young to remember his mother.
Elley Mae
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Doctors suspect she had a pulmonary embolism, or a blood clot in the lungs, but they won't know until an autopsy can be performed, Machado said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mourning-begins-texas-family-brain-dead-mother-now/story?id=22253935
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mourning-begins-texas-family-brain-dead-mother-now/story?id=22253935
Elley Mae
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snippets
Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle agree Section 166 needs to be clarified. What they might not agree on moving forward is how to do that.
Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle want to see the code clarified in the next legislative session. But that's where the agreements might end.
"It's a very simple fix," Coleman said. He will propose adding a line into the provision that nullifies it if the woman is already dead.
"You can't remove life-saving treatment from a pregnant woman unless they are declared dead," he said.
But Krause has a different viewpoint. He wants to see the law changed to add more protections for an unborn fetus.
"There was a little child inside Ms. Muñoz," he said.
Krause would prefer that the fetus be appointed a guardian to protect its interests if the mother is declared dead.
"I think you always err on the side of life," he said.
http://www.kvue.com/news/state/242322621.html
bbm
Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle agree Section 166 needs to be clarified. What they might not agree on moving forward is how to do that.
Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle want to see the code clarified in the next legislative session. But that's where the agreements might end.
"It's a very simple fix," Coleman said. He will propose adding a line into the provision that nullifies it if the woman is already dead.
"You can't remove life-saving treatment from a pregnant woman unless they are declared dead," he said.
But Krause has a different viewpoint. He wants to see the law changed to add more protections for an unborn fetus.
"There was a little child inside Ms. Muñoz," he said.
Krause would prefer that the fetus be appointed a guardian to protect its interests if the mother is declared dead.
"I think you always err on the side of life," he said.
http://www.kvue.com/news/state/242322621.html
bbm