TX - Scott Buchholtz-Sanchez, 3 wks, decapitated, San Antonio, July 2009 *Insanity*

[AmandaBrown23]

omg this is one of the most disgusting things I have read on here so far.

 

[s_finch]

The Newborn Screening Laboratories (NBS) provide testing services in support of the Texas Newborn Screening Program. The program currently screens every infant born in Texas, testing for 27 disorders. http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/LAB/newbornscreening.shtm

Why not test mother's for PPP? It only makes sense to do so.

I could be wrong, but I don't think screening for PPP is that simple. The hormones are fluctuating wildly after child birth. It would be a hit and miss screening and would be quite costly. Do you call every mom in once a week for two months for screening? Two times a week for a month? Are you going to test every mother when such a small percentage suffer PPP?

JMO

 

[momtective]

I could be wrong, but I don't think screening for PPP is that simple. The hormones are fluctuating wildly after child birth. It would be a hit and miss screening and would be quite costly. Do you call every mom in once a week for two months for screening? Two times a week for a month? Are you going to test every mother when such a small percentage suffer PPP?

JMO

I'm not saying it is an answer without flaws...the potential is there in any testing for inaccuracies. The PAP test alone has proven that. But there just has to be a way to try to prevent stuff like this from happening and testing is the only thing I can think of that might help these new mommies and their babies out.
I would be all for testing mother's before leaving the hospital and making any arraignments with the parents for supervision if the test indicates PPP. In three weeks test again and @ 6wks check-up. At 6 wks check-up referral to mental health if needed.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

If this mom was suffering from PPP, if she was psychotic, doesn't that mean that at the moment of the murder, she didn't know right from wrong?

~ Respectfully snipped ~

That's the way I understand it, Kgeaux. I don't know this woman personally, but many women I know (from group) felt like at any moment they could have listened to the voices. Or lived out the intrusive thoughts to harm themselves or their baby. Right or wrong is difficult to quantify in that moment. The voices and thoughts are so intense you don't think right or wrong.

This really is a family problem. Women need their families to rally for and around them, especially when there is history of mental illness. As for me, I had only had two previous depressive episodes prior to the PPP. My psychiatrists believed my having two miscarriages before my daughter contributed greatly to the state I later found myself in. Three pregnancies in a year a half proved too much for me. Like Andrea Yates, I have been told not to have any more children. My husband and I have respected their advice and will not have anymore children.

The saddest thing for me in all of this.. it seems it goes bad right after the family believes things to be okay. Andrea Yates was left for a few hours with her children because her family believed it would be okay.

Melanie Stokes committed suicide by jumping off the roof of her Chicago apartment building. Read her story, you'll see how much she struggled with multiple hospitalizations. Still, her family thought she was getting better. http://www.melaniesbattle.org/story.html

While Melanie's story featured on Oprah, women who commit suicide because of PPP get far less attention. As long as PPP is only shown/discussed it's in worst form, many women will continue to hide their true suffering. I wish it wasn't this way. I continue to hope and pray for change... soon.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Maybe make sure mom is not left alone with baby until the next hormone test shows normal hormone levels. Maybe a contract signed with family members so she can be monitored.

:clap: This is the key right here, Momtective. Never ever leave a woman suffering from postpartum illness alone. The risk is far too great. It takes time to overcome, but with the proper support and medications (if deemed appropriate) women can heal and be who they once were.

I'm not certain of the accuracy of blood tests for hormonal levels, but I do know even the simplest questionnaires from most physicians cover all areas of postpartum illness. What I think scares most women from admitting the true severity of their illness is the thought of losing their child(ren) or being branded a bad mother/person. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from other mothers. So again I say, if you have any symptoms of postpartum illness, do not be afraid to tell the truth. No one will look down on you for getting the help you need. It is the best thing you can do for you and your child to ensure a happy and healthy life together.

I apologize for my rambling. This is one subject very close to my heart.

 

[Reannan]

Where was the father at?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Where was the father at?

One of the articles mentioned he had left home a week earlier.

Seems like a pretty bad atmosphere of stress to compound her preexisting hormone and mental issues.

 

[Knox]

I know we have a couple of nurses who are members ... Maybe they could chime in and let us know their medical perspective. What does a Dr. do with a patient he suspects is suffering from PPD? What would a Dr. do if a patient clearly had PPD but either refused treatment or did not return for a follow-up after the initial diagnosis/appointment? Do they contact CPS for a welfare check?

 

[southcitymom]

:clap: This is the key right here, Momtective. Never ever leave a woman suffering from postpartum illness alone. The risk is far too great. It takes time to overcome, but with the proper support and medications (if deemed appropriate) women can heal and be who they once were.

I'm not certain of the accuracy of blood tests for hormonal levels, but I do know even the simplest questionnaires from most physicians cover all areas of postpartum illness. What I think scares most women from admitting the true severity of their illness is the thought of losing their child(ren) or being branded a bad mother/person. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from other mothers. So again I say, if you have any symptoms of postpartum illness, do not be afraid to tell the truth. No one will look down on you for getting the help you need. It is the best thing you can do for you and your child to ensure a happy and healthy life together.

I apologize for my rambling. This is one subject very close to my heart.

You are certainly not rambling. Your posts have been terrific. Thanks for sharing your experiences so honestly with this subject.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm not saying it is an answer without flaws...the potential is there in any testing for inaccuracies. The PAP test alone has proven that. But there just has to be a way to try to prevent stuff like this from happening and testing is the only thing I can think of that might help these new mommies and their babies out.
I would be all for testing mother's before leaving the hospital and making any arraignments with the parents for supervision if the test indicates PPP. In three weeks test again and @ 6wks check-up. At 6 wks check-up referral to mental health if needed.

All due respect to your thoughts, momtective...these are just mine - for me, I wouldn't trust a hormonal screening test - especially if "they" had the power to take my child or make sure I couldn't be alone with my child. That seems like a lot of power to give Western medical doctors with lab tests. I don't like it.

What's next - screening women during their periods to make sure they're not too hormonal to be a mom...or during menopause.....it just seems extraordinarily invasive - too invasive for me to consider it a good idea.

Now - I have NO medical experience or knowledge, but I am hard-pressed to believe a lab test could accurately say "at this hormonal level, you're fine - just a little nutty and weepy, but at THIS hormonal level, we're pretty sure you're going to kill your child."

 

[southcitymom]

I know we have a couple of nurses who are members ... Maybe they could chime in and let us know their medical perspective. What does a Dr. do with a patient he suspects is suffering from PPD? What would a Dr. do if a patient clearly had PPD but either refused treatment or did not return for a follow-up after the initial diagnosis/appointment? Do they contact CPS for a welfare check?

Good questions, Knox. I know I was asked questions to ferret out post-partum depression after the birth of both my sons (now 6 and 8). If I thought a doctor had the power to turn me into CPS because he thought I wasn't addressing his diagnosis of PPD, I'd probably lie my buns off in the initial screening....as it's been pointed out, many women lie about it anyway because it makes them feel like they are terrible people.

 

[Texana]

She was obviously incredibly, horrifyingly, delusional. I feel badly for the family and the officers responding--can you imagine the trauma? Hopefully the poor baby did not suffer before his death.

Someone whose PPD was this strong, and who appeared to have mental issues before, should probably not ever be allowed out of a medical mental health facility. The violence risk if she goes off meds---assuming she could be medicated back to mental health----are too great.

I have always thought also in these horrific violent PPD killings of children, there is an element of rage at the father.

 

[lonetraveler]

According to the report, the mother says she "heard voices" that told her to kill her child. When officers arrived, she said she wanted to kill herself.

http://www.kens5.com/latestnews/stories/KENS20090726-Baby-Killed-NW-Side.7b68a56a.html

I can't stomach these stories anymore !! There were other people in the house with this mother and newborn. Why didn't any of them notice the mental state of this "mom" and step in?

She's in the hospital now, but will be charged with capital murder when she is released.

---------------
Well, you can beat on me if you want to, but I think if she wanted to kill herself, then let her do just that. I really sick of hearing about people conveniently murdering little babies and children. If this "sick" person can do such a thing, then let them kill themselves for just put them out of their misery. Rabid dogs are killed so that they do not harm innocent people.

 

[believe09]

Good questions, Knox. I know I was asked questions to ferret out post-partum depression after the birth of both my sons (now 6 and 8). If I thought a doctor had the power to turn me into CPS because he thought I wasn't addressing his diagnosis of PPD, I'd probably lie my buns off in the initial screening....as it's been pointed out, many women lie about it anyway because it makes them feel like they are terrible people.

I am not sure where the idea came that screening for PPD or PPP would then mean your child would be taken? To me it would be like testing for diabetes-you test, you get treated, you are monitored, life goes on...It is not criminal to have an ailment-it is criminal not to ignore it when the end result could be something like this.

 

[believe09]

She was obviously incredibly, horrifyingly, delusional. I feel badly for the family and the officers responding--can you imagine the trauma? Hopefully the poor baby did not suffer before his death.

Someone whose PPD was this strong, and who appeared to have mental issues before, should probably not ever be allowed out of a medical mental health facility. The violence risk if she goes off meds---assuming she could be medicated back to mental health----are too great.

I have always thought also in these horrific violent PPD killings of children, there is an element of rage at the father.

For me, this kind of a killing is the absolute definition of insanity. I did not think it was a leap for Yates either. Without knowing this woman's history it is difficult to judge whether she or not she is wired like I am-my guess is no. So, if I believe that is it fair to expect of her what I would expect of my friends, myself, my neighbors when they hit the skids like this? Her family will live forever knowing that they should never have given her this blessed little boy. Eventually, she will know what she did to her son-every day she will have to live and try to make sense of that.

I don't know if it possible-perhaps they would have done her a favor if they had let her die...I mean I cannot fathom the horror.

 

[reb]

good god-- what is up with texas and the devil talking to people...??!

 

[Fairy1]

For me, this kind of a killing is the absolute definition of insanity. I did not think it was a leap for Yates either. Without knowing this woman's history it is difficult to judge whether she or not she is wired like I am-my guess is no. So, if I believe that is it fair to expect of her what I would expect of my friends, myself, my neighbors when they hit the skids like this? Her family will live forever knowing that they should never have given her this blessed little boy. Eventually, she will know what she did to her son-every day she will have to live and try to make sense of that.

I don't know if it possible-perhaps they would have done her a favor if they had let her die...I mean I cannot fathom the horror.

I agree. I'm no expert but IMO, this goes waaaaaaaaay beyond PPD or PPP. The worst thing they can do to her is normalize her with meds enough for her to know - and live with - what she's done for the rest of her life.

I'm sorry, but I do believe the family members with whom she was living bear some responsibility here. They had to have known she was not right in the head. She didn't just snap to this degree in one day FGS!

 

[CHICANA]

I am not sure where the idea came that screening for PPD or PPP would then mean your child would be taken? To me it would be like testing for diabetes-you test, you get treated, you are monitored, life goes on...It is not criminal to have an ailment-it is criminal not to ignore it when the end result could be something like this.

Doctors are mandatory reporters. If they suspect a child is at risk, they have to call CPS.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I am not sure where the idea came that screening for PPD or PPP would then mean your child would be taken? To me it would be like testing for diabetes-you test, you get treated, you are monitored, life goes on...It is not criminal to have an ailment-it is criminal not to ignore it when the end result could be something like this.

I said it in a previous post. One of the reasons women are afraid to tell anyone what's going on is the fear of losing their child(ren) or being labeled a bad mother/person. It's hard to balance the fear you're going through.

I know it's hard to understand, wondering how anyone wouldn't seek for PPP immediately. That is just one of the grips it has on a woman.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

---------------
Well, you can beat on me if you want to, but I think if she wanted to kill herself, then let her do just that. I really sick of hearing about people conveniently murdering little babies and children. If this "sick" person can do such a thing, then let them kill themselves for just put them out of their misery. Rabid dogs are killed so that they do not harm innocent people.

I'd prefer she didn't kill anyone, her baby or herself.