TX - Scott Buchholtz-Sanchez, 3 wks, decapitated, San Antonio, July 2009 *Insanity*

[WhyaDuck?]

Murder might be considered a more "normal" way for this mother to have dealt with a baby (and by the way the don't know the baby was crying when the mom did these things) but decapitating and eating the baby's brain and toes is beyond rage or normal homicidal behaviour. I certainly hope that she receives a Yates defense.

Mental illness is just as real as diabetes, alzheimers, chicken pox, etc... and it will be a good day when everyone realizes this.

I agree. If she had smothered/beaten/strangled the baby to death, I could easily question a PPP defense as someone taking advantage of a dx to cover up a frustrated rage (or even a calculated murder to "get back" at the father). However, the circumstances, as heinous as they are, do seem to testify to just how deeply insane she was.

Still, I can totally understand the rage and disgust people are feeling on this thread on a gut level, so I am not sure what to say about this case. I know for one thing that this lady should likely never reproduce again, and I hope she is put some place where she can be treated.

 

[southcitymom]

That WS poster was posting a comment from KENS5, in which one commenter used the word animal. The quote just wasn't distinguished from the rest of the text.

That having been said, we are all "animals," technically. (And it bothers me when people use that term as a pejorative, as we have daily proof on this site that humans can act worse than our animal brethren, particularly when money is involved.)

Totally off topic, but I crack up too when someone uses the word "animal" to describe a human who has done something wrong!

I mean I understand that people who do this are trying to identify the human as somehow unnaturally savage and not in touch with their "higher" impulses, but - as you point out - since the beginning of human history, we have evidence of humans acting more savagely than their animal cohorts. Indeed, savagery is a well-documented part of our *advertiser censored* sapien history.

 

[21merc7]

It is interesting that so many harken to the Yates' case, it would be interesting to see what medications this woman was taking. We know that Andrea Yates was taking a reuptake inhibitor, I believe Paxil. While millions of Americans take these medications without suicidal or psychotic behavior, almost all of the people who commit these acts are under their influence.

The correlation may not be the PPD, but the medication used to treat it. Just a thought. I took one such drug to quit smoking and did some reading that found shocking information about such behavior associated with these drugs. I would suggest doing some reading on this subject.

I would wonder how many cases such as these took place a fifty years ago, when these drugs were not given to treat PPD.

I am not knocking the drugs because millions find them to be helpful, but there is something strange going on with these cases.

magickone;

I think your question is very valid. It seems not all medications are for all people. Each medicine effects different people in different ways. While paxil may be very effective for millions there may be hundreds who are driven over the edge if they take it. Zoloft is another good example, I've seen several people take it and become completely violent, criminal (as in stealing, etc..) where they were merely depressed before taking Zoloft, obviously they got on a different medication after realizing this drug was not for them. The only problem in a case like this is, if the patient is not really thinking clearly or even schizophrenic, they cannot tell the doctor the medicine is making them worse because they probably have no idea it is the medicine, and maybe no idea that they have gone extremely over the edge.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

good god-- what is up with texas and the devil talking to people...??!

I have to admit when I see cases like this I think of why so many of these women seem to come from Texas.

It is uncanny in a way.

imo

 

[CHICANA]

Oooh. Dad said he wanted her put to death.
Where the bleep was he ????
The bleep of bleep.
He knew the baby was at risk and he left him alone with her.
He should be charged also.

OOPS Just finished article and she left dad.

 

[southcitymom]

One of the things that makes the justice system in the US so very awesome is the fact that we do not put severely mentally ill people into prison when they do crazy, criminal things. That's our standard, anyway, and I am 110% supportive of it.

I have read of a number of cases where mothers (and sometimes fathers) kill and cannibalize their children and I have NEVER read of one where severe mental illness (almost ALWAYS accompanied by voices) wasn't the "reason." We may not like the reason or think it's a good reason, but surely we can admit that when someone does something like this it isn't because they woke up one morning and decided "Parenthood's not for me and I'll take care of that by eating my child." That is the behavior of someone battling demons that 99.9% will never battle or understand.

As far as blaming family - it's true that I have a hard time doing that in most cases, but in the case at hand, there is just no evidence whatsoever that the family should be blamed. I mean - maybe they should, but I'm not about to leap there without a heck of a lot of details to lead me to that conclusion.

As has been pointed out by others on this thread, often people with a history of mental illness seem to be doing better to those around them and then....WHAM - all hell breaks loose.

I hope this woman gets some help. My continued prayers for this family.

 

[SewingDeb]

One of the articles linked above said that she was diagnosed as schizophrenic last year and that her mental health deteriorated greatly the last two weeks before her son was born.

Also she lived with the father (they had an on and off again relationship for six years) and she left him to go live in her mother's house.

The father has the same mental condition according to his mother (also in the article).

The aunt was taking turns caring for the baby during the night so they could sleep in shifts. I wish someone, anyone, else was taking the mother's shift that fateful morning. Her mental problems went too deep for her to be trusted with an infant at all, much less alone.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm sorry, but until all the facts in this case come out, I cannot have any sympathy for this woman. She claims the devil made her do it, she tries to take her own life, but when you see her, sitting up on the gurney, it makes me wonder just how bad she tried to hurt herself.

BTW I have 2 children and have never gone through PPD, maybe I just do not understand. Maybe it's true, is it true in this case? All I see in my mind is a mother, who, in the middle of the night, hears her baby's cries, cannot deal with it, and then deals with it in the most horrendous way known to man.

Yates defense anyone? It's coming!

Since this seems to be prevalent (PPD) do we know how many of these women who have murdered their babies in such unthinkable ways were actually found mentally ill at trial?

And if it is so prevalent why aren't we seeing many more of these ghoulish type of murders happening to other defenseless children that have mothers who are supposedly suffering from PPD?

Just curious.

imo

 

[SewingDeb]

OBE,

1 in 50,000 will actually commit infanticide.

http://www.postpartumsupport.com/statistics.htm

 

[momtective]

OBE,

1 in 50,000 will actually commit infanticide.

http://www.postpartumsupport.com/statistics.htm

That's still too many! Not even one innocent baby should die at the hands of their mother.

 

[SewingDeb]

Exactly momtective. Also, I think that is 1 in 50,000 of those diagnosed with PPD.

I think the most important thing is that people should be educatated and if a new mother is showing signs of PPD or PPP, she should have a lot of help and never be left alone with her infant.

Families need to know there is medication and treatment.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I'm sorry, but until all the facts in this case come out, I cannot have any sympathy for this woman. She claims the devil made her do it, she tries to take her own life, but when you see her, sitting up on the gurney, it makes me wonder just how bad she tried to hurt herself.

BTW I have 2 children and have never gone through PPD, maybe I just do not understand. Maybe it's true, is it true in this case? All I see in my mind is a mother, who, in the middle of the night, hears her baby's cries, cannot deal with it, and then deals with it in the most horrendous way known to man.

Yates defense anyone? It's coming!

Much like a drunk driver who has killed someone in a car accident but has no injuries to himself/herself, a person in a psychotic break would not feel pain the way a person in touch with reality would.

I completely understand your post. But I must tell you, postpartum psychosis is much more complicated than being aggravated with a baby's cry. Please read the links I have posted earlier in the thread.

IMO - Andrea Yates defense was true and appropriate. In this case, if it is deemed by a team of psychiatrists and experts that this woman suffered PPP then that defense will also be appropriate for her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE,

1 in 50,000 will actually commit infanticide.

http://www.postpartumsupport.com/statistics.htm

Thank you so much, Deb.

imo

 

[Annie]

Since this seems to be prevalent (PPD) do we know how many of these women who have murdered their babies in such unthinkable ways were actually found mentally ill at trial?

And if it is so prevalent why aren't we seeing many more of these ghoulish type of murders happening to other defenseless children that have mothers who are supposedly suffering from PPD?

Just curious.

imo

In cases like this, it isn't just depression, but a full blown psychosis. There is a lot of difference in that and depression. Doing this to a baby is so horrible we can't even dwell on it very long, but I think this woman was very sick. But most people won't do something this horrible even if very ill, I think she needs to be removed from society to prevent her having any more babies and maybe doing this again.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Since this seems to be prevalent (PPD) do we know how many of these women who have murdered their babies in such unthinkable ways were actually found mentally ill at trial?

And if it is so prevalent why aren't we seeing many more of these ghoulish type of murders happening to other defenseless children that have mothers who are supposedly suffering from PPD?

Just curious.

imo

It's not PPD these women are suffering from. It is PPP. The rarest, yet most dangerous of the postpartum mood disorders.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/postpartum-mood-disorders-common-complex-distinct-and-treatable/2/

Postpartum psychosis is a different entity altogether from postpartum depression, although the two are often inappropriately linked in the public’s understanding of the mood disorders following pregnancy. Liz’s beliefs, thought processes and reactions to her infant are unfortunately typical.

Postpartum psychosis fortunately is the least common of the three conditions, occurring about once or twice in every 1,000 births. Like other psychotic conditions, the symptoms are very exaggerated and may include insomnia, religious preoccupations, agitation and bizarre feelings or behavior in addition to the delusional thoughts and sensory hallucinations, typically auditory or visual in character.

As Karen Kleiman, M.S.W., director of the Postpartum Stress Center in Rosemont, Pa., explains, “Postpartum psychosis is not simply a worsening case of postpartum depression. It’s a totally distinct psychological disorder. In the most severe cases of postpartum depression, the concern is that a woman may harm herself. In postpartum psychosis, the woman must be regarded as a threat to her infant.”

There is a very distinct difference between the PPD that a lot of women suffer following the birth of a baby and PPP.

 

[SewingDeb]

You're welcome OBE.

Disguiseduser, thank you for the information. Education is the key.

Who knows when someone close to us may be affected by this condition? I have three daughters of child bearing years and I hope that I will be able to spot it if it happens to them and get them the help they need.

Protection of the infant is extremely important...some people believe a mother would never harm her own child even if the mother is suffering from a severe mental illness.

 

[tekilla]

Snapped is sometimes exactly the case. Let me again mention my aunts case, which was 50 years ago. Other than perhaps some mild OCD traits she had never shown any psychotic traits whatsoever. Her baby was a few days old, my aunt suddenly passed a LARGE amount of afterbirth ( which shouldn't have been the case considering she'd had the baby in the hospital) and for some reason thought she'd just delivered a second (dead?) baby. My aunt grew up on a farm, she knew about birthing, afterbirth, etc... but for some reason she literally snapped. Thank God my grandmother was there at the time and realized my aunt needed immediate help or something could have happened to the baby. TWo years later my aunt had fully recovered and went on to live a healthy productive life, but listened to doctors advice and didn't have anymore children.

Sanchez could have snapped or there could have been signs (apparently she had previous mental illness). What Sanchez isn't is an "animal" and I take issue with the poster who described her as such.

I also had an Aunt who lived in the mountains snap after giving birth. It was about 35 or 40 years ago. Hours after the baby was born at home she decided to put it back where it came from and broke its little neck. She was never right she just sat in her chair and rocked until the day she died 20 years ago. This birth was done at home and never reported and she never got any help at all. I was always so scared of her whenever we were in the mountains to visit. She never said anything just sat there rocking.

 

[DotsEyes]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if the mother is nuts or depressed? She ate her baby's brains, and toes, people. I agree with the baby's father - execute her. She can't be fixed. We don't have to keep murderers alive just because they are nuts. She knew it was wrong, that is why she was crying "I killed my baby!" when LE arrived.

Don't blame the father or the other members of the family. They are ill equipped to understand her particular mental issue. They aren't responsible for her actions.

"Hearing voices" - that is so lame. Why don't these voices ever say "love your baby and be gentle with him"?

 

[AmandaBrown23]

I am just gonna say that if she was sick before the baby was born then I sure hope her family feels real good about theirself. There is no excuse why she was left alone with this child when more than one person knew of her mental state. They failed that poor child.

 

[southcitymom]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if the mother is nuts or depressed? She ate her baby's brains, and toes, people. I agree with the baby's father - execute her. She can't be fixed. We don't have to keep murderers alive just because they are nuts. She knew it was wrong, that is why she was crying "I killed my baby!" when LE arrived.

Don't blame the father or the other members of the family. They are ill equipped to understand her particular mental issue. They aren't responsible for her actions.

"Hearing voices" - that is so lame. Why don't these voices ever say "love your baby and be gentle with him"?

Because the voices aren't a product of a good, loving force - they are a product of the worst kinds of mental illness and severe mental illness can rightly be associated with the darkest forces that beset us here on Earth.

Honestly, I believe death and release would be a much easier route for this woman than what she will probably endure for the rest of her life here. However, I also believe that it is always a mistake to take away someone's free will choice to live, so I can't get down with executing her.