TX - Scott Buchholtz-Sanchez, 3 wks, decapitated, San Antonio, July 2009 *Insanity*

[CHICANA]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if the mother is nuts or depressed? She ate her baby's brains, and toes, people. I agree with the baby's father - execute her. She can't be fixed. We don't have to keep murderers alive just because they are nuts. She knew it was wrong, that is why she was crying "I killed my baby!" when LE arrived.

Don't blame the father or the other members of the family. They are ill equipped to understand her particular mental issue. They aren't responsible for her actions.

"Hearing voices" - that is so lame. Why don't these voices ever say "love your baby and be gentle with him"?

Do you not believe she was mentally ill ?

 

[southcitymom]

Do you not believe she was mentally ill ?

I think DotEyes was clear that she doesn't care if this mother was "nuts or depressed" which I believe stands for "mentally ill", but maybe I'm interpreting Dot's words incorrectly.

 

[believe09]

One of the things that makes the justice system in the US so very awesome is the fact that we do not put severely mentally ill people into prison when they do crazy, criminal things. That's our standard, anyway, and I am 110% supportive of it.

I have read of a number of cases where mothers (and sometimes fathers) kill and cannibalize their children and I have NEVER read of one where severe mental illness (almost ALWAYS accompanied by voices) wasn't the "reason." We may not like the reason or think it's a good reason, but surely we can admit that when someone does something like this it isn't because they woke up one morning and decided "Parenthood's not for me and I'll take care of that by eating my child." That is the behavior of someone battling demons that 99.9% will never battle or understand.

As far as blaming family - it's true that I have a hard time doing that in most cases, but in the case at hand, there is just no evidence whatsoever that the family should be blamed. I mean - maybe they should, but I'm not about to leap there without a heck of a lot of details to lead me to that conclusion.

As has been pointed out by others on this thread, often people with a history of mental illness seem to be doing better to those around them and then....WHAM - all hell breaks loose.

I hope this woman gets some help. My continued prayers for this family.

I am with SCM in this post-schizophrenia is almost a one off for me; this is a brain and a person who works differently. I do not live in their world, and yet someone with this has to people mine. I cannot expect the same of them as I would of me because they are wired differently. The sooner we learn this with this DX, the closer we will be to protecting those who cannot protect themselves from folks like this and the closer we will be to easing the burden from someone with schizophrenia...we cannot expect someone with this diagnosis to mother in a way we deem acceptable, to work, to function in society the way we all do. Because they are remarkably different....alot of schizophrenics do better in an institutional setting (including prison), I believe, because of consistent medication and observation by people who "get it."

jmo....

 

[southcitymom]

I am with SCM in this post-schizophrenia is almost a one off for me; this is a brain and a person who works differently. I do not live in their world, and yet someone with this has to people mine. I cannot expect the same of them as I would of me because they are wired differently. The sooner we learn this with this DX, the closer we will be to protecting those who cannot protect themselves from folks like this and the closer we will be to easing the burden from someone with schizophrenia...we cannot expect someone with this diagnosis to mother in a way we deem acceptable, to work, to function in society the way we all do. Because they are remarkably different....alot of schizophrenics do better in an institutional setting (including prison), I believe, because of consistent medication and observation by people who "get it."

jmo....

I agree with this completely. I'd prefer they not be in a regular prison, though frankly, most mental institutions are the same thing without the "punitive" label.

 

[momtective]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ther_diagnosed_with_depression_psychosis.html

The father of the baby now is asking that she “pay the ultimate price.” “She needs to be put to death for what she has done.”

Sanchez's relatives, however, are hoping authorities will take into consideration her history of mental illness, which included a recent diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Relatives said Sanchez's mental health had severely deteriorated in the week before baby Scotty's death.

My note: She had already been diagnosed with PPP, her mental health had severely deteriorated prior to the baby's death. Why the h3ll didn't someone take that baby away from her? Why, why, why! Any sane adult would have been just fine to take that baby! Her family members or husband should have taken him and protected him until his mother's mental health improved.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ther_diagnosed_with_depression_psychosis.html

The father of the baby now is asking that she “pay the ultimate price.” “She needs to be put to death for what she has done.”

Sanchez's relatives, however, are hoping authorities will take into consideration her history of mental illness, which included a recent diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Relatives said Sanchez's mental health had severely deteriorated in the week before baby Scotty's death.

My note: She had already been diagnosed with PPP, her mental health had severely deteriorated prior to the baby's death. Why the h3ll didn't someone take that baby away from her? Why, why, why! Any sane adult would have been just fine to take that baby! Her family members or husband should have taken him and protected him until his mother's mental health improved.

The "should haves" in cases like this are heartbreaking. I agree that she should have been separated from the baby - or at least given some rest time away for her own good, if not for the baby. It is likely whatever meds she'd be on would prevent her from breastfeeding (if she was, anyway), so the baby would not be harmed by being placed elsewhere for a while - and we can see the alternative.

I am baffled by how an actual diagnosis of PPP went untended like this.


***
ETA: STILL shocked that she had already been diagnosed before the murder. I had been going on the assumption that she hadn't been seen by a professional and the family had just chalked it up to "baby blues" or her previous issues. Man. Still shocked.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

BTW, look at him... Breaks my heart to see those helpless little limbs.

Rest in peace, Scotty.

(Image embedding is not working today, for some reason.)

 

[CHICANA]

I think DotEyes was clear that she doesn't care if this mother was "nuts or depressed" which I believe stands for "mentally ill", but maybe I'm interpreting Dot's words incorrectly.

My bad.
You're right. That's what happens when I try to sneak on here at work.

 

[Hopeful One]

I read this story earlier this morning and it's all I can think about. If she had just been diagnosed with PPP WHY oh why was she EVER left alone with that baby??? Even if they couldn't legally remove the baby from her care, I would never have let her alone in a room with the baby without supervision. Don't these people remember Andrea Yates??

 

[DotsEyes]

Do you not believe she was mentally ill ?

What I said was, I don't care what her mental issues are. No one gets a free pass to chop off a baby's head and eat it's brains and toes. There is no reason to spare her life, she is worthless and a waste of resources to keep her penned up for the next 50 years until she dies.

I am sick of excuses. The very act of butchering a baby and eating him for breakfast is proof that the woman is mentally ill. So what? She gets a pass?

F that. Put her down and out permanently.

 

[southcitymom]

My bad.
You're right. That's what happens when I try to sneak on here at work.

LOL - sneak in here anytime, my friend!

 

[lizzybeth]

The father has to take some responsiblity if she had in fact been diagnosed with post partum psychosis. It seems likethe doctor would have warned them about what could happen if she was left alone with the baby.

 

[southcitymom]

I read this story earlier this morning and it's all I can think about. If she had just been diagnosed with PPP WHY oh why was she EVER left alone with that baby??? Even if they couldn't legally remove the baby from her care, I would never have let her alone in a room with the baby without supervision. Don't these people remember Andrea Yates??

Hey Shamrock,

I don't think she WAS diagnosed with PPP (someone please correct me if I am wrong) - she was diagnosed last year with schizophrenia, a different illness all together.

From what I have read, I think there is every chance in the world that she had PPP also, but we don't know that. What we do know is that she had a pretty severe mental illness that predated the birth of her child.

"Hearing voices" is common among schizophrenics and among women suffering PPP.

Now, I know that MOST schizophrenics don't become murderously violent and kill and eat their children (especially if they are receiving pharmaceutical treatment). However, schizophrenia is almost always a factor in cases like this - which is, to me, a different type of case from the Yates case.

I don't know what should be done when people with mental illness choose to get - or find themselves - pregnant. As I said early in this thread, I am loathe to the idea of legislating reproduction.

I still don't have enough information to lay blame on the family. I think they knew she was mentally ill and I think they were trying to help her a lot with the baby. I don't they had a clue she was capable or close to doing what she did - I think they are as stunned and disgusted as the rest of us.

I understand the desire to want to find someone to point a finger at when a child is killed by its parent, especially in such a sensational fashion, but sometimes (particularly when you are dealing with something as slippery as mental illness) terrible things just happen, and so I'm never entirely comfortable playing Monday morning quarterbacking and saying "Well someone should have seen that coming!"

 

[southcitymom]

The father has to take some responsiblity if she had in fact been diagnosed with post partum psychosis. It seems likethe doctor would have warned them about what could happen if she was left alone with the baby.

Again - don't think PPP was the diagnosis. From what I read, the Father was also schizophrenic, so I am going to filter his words and actions through that prism for now.

 

[Penelope]

This woman is obviously very, very sick. Once she is treated and returns to her senses, she will undoubtedly live in her own hell for the rest of her life. However, I did know a woman with post-partum depression and her family NEVER left her alone with her baby-- and this was just depression -- until she recovered.

This issue needs to be brought into the light. This is very serious and her family should have kept the baby away from her. When my Native American husband was born, his mother rejected him and told the midwife/elder to get him out of her sight or she would kill him. That was it-- the Elders determined that the baby be taken out of the home immediately. For the next 5 years of his life, my husband was raised by an elderly couple who lived a few miles from his parents and he was allowed to see his mother only under supervision. When he was 5 years old, it was determined that the danger was over and he was returned to his mother and family.

Nowadays, that knowledge and ability to make decisions for the good of the baby seems to be lost or superceded by the rights of the mother. Meanwhile, innocent babies like this poor little one suffer and die .

 

[kgeaux]

It is interesting that so many harken to the Yates' case, it would be interesting to see what medications this woman was taking. We know that Andrea Yates was taking a reuptake inhibitor, I believe Paxil. While millions of Americans take these medications without suicidal or psychotic behavior, almost all of the people who commit these acts are under their influence.

The correlation may not be the PPD, but the medication used to treat it. Just a thought. I took one such drug to quit smoking and did some reading that found shocking information about such behavior associated with these drugs. I would suggest doing some reading on this subject.

I would wonder how many cases such as these took place a fifty years ago, when these drugs were not given to treat PPD.

I am not knocking the drugs because millions find them to be helpful, but there is something strange going on with these cases.

That would be a hard study. Most of the people who take these meds are doing so because they have been diagnoised with mental illness. I guess the study would have to medicate some mentally ill young moms and leave other mentally ill moms UNmedicated and then compare the two groups to see who most often kills their babies?

I'm sorry, but until all the facts in this case come out, I cannot have any sympathy for this woman. She claims the devil made her do it, she tries to take her own life, but when you see her, sitting up on the gurney, it makes me wonder just how bad she tried to hurt herself.

BTW I have 2 children and have never gone through PPD, maybe I just do not understand. Maybe it's true, is it true in this case? All I see in my mind is a mother, who, in the middle of the night, hears her baby's cries, cannot deal with it, and then deals with it in the most horrendous way known to man.

Yates defense anyone? It's coming!

We really don't know if the baby's crying precipitated this horrible event.

Wouldn't it be more just to give her a break until "all the facts" prove she is unworthy of mercy? Mental illness is REAL. If this woman suffered from schizophrenia, PLUS post partum "psychosis" (not PPD) then she truly may not have been able to understand that what she was doing was wrong.

Am I the only one that doesn't care if the mother is nuts or depressed? She ate her baby's brains, and toes, people. I agree with the baby's father - execute her. She can't be fixed. We don't have to keep murderers alive just because they are nuts. She knew it was wrong, that is why she was crying "I killed my baby!" when LE arrived.

Don't blame the father or the other members of the family. They are ill equipped to understand her particular mental issue. They aren't responsible for her actions.

"Hearing voices" - that is so lame. Why don't these voices ever say "love your baby and be gentle with him"?

Dot, people who suffer from the mental disease that this woman was diagnosed with REALLY do hear voices. Nothing lame about it. And many of them can be successfully medicated to stop those voices.

I don't think anyone is advocating that this woman go unpunished, but it is barbaric to put to death someone who was acting out of a very serious mental illness, compounded with yet another mental illness caused by the birth of the child;

What I said was, I don't care what her mental issues are. No one gets a free pass to chop off a baby's head and eat it's brains and toes. There is no reason to spare her life, she is worthless and a waste of resources to keep her penned up for the next 50 years until she dies.

I am sick of excuses. The very act of butchering a baby and eating him for breakfast is proof that the woman is mentally ill. So what? She gets a pass?

F that. Put her down and out permanently.

We do give a "pass" to the truly mentally ill. That is why we have "not guilty by reason of insanity" pleas available. The bar to "qualify" for legal insanity is very, very high, and IF this woman qualifies (I think she is the textbook example of "legally insane") then she STILL wouldn't go unpunished---she would be sentenced to serve her time in a mental institution.

 

[kgeaux]

Again - don't think PPP was the diagnosis. From what I read, the Father was also schizophrenic, so I am going to filter his words and actions through that prism for now.

The father is not the one who said she had been diagnosed with PPP. Her relatives told reporters that.

snipped from the article: But Sanchez's relatives are hoping authorities will take into consideration her history of mental illness, which included a recent diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

 

[southcitymom]

The father is not the one who said she had been diagnosed with PPP. Her relatives told reporters that.

snipped from the article: But Sanchez's relatives are hoping authorities will take into consideration her history of mental illness, which included a recent diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Thank you, kgeaux - I missed that!

 

[kgeaux]

Thank you, kgeaux - I missed that!

No problem, sweetie! I was re-reading the article as you posted, so it was staring me in the eyes!:blowkiss:

 

[barb0301]

Again - don't think PPP was the diagnosis. From what I read, the Father was also schizophrenic, so I am going to filter his words and actions through that prism for now.

According to the family, she HAD been diagnosed recently with PPP. Of course, it's all going to come out in court at some point, and we'll have to wait until the medical reports have been reviewed to know for sure.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ther_diagnosed_with_depression_psychosis.html

The DA's office is adamant that she will be prosecuted for capital murder. The test is going to be whether she knew "right from wrong". The answer to that question will determine the charges and the penalty that is sought by the DA. Having a mental illness, even PPP, does not necessarily preclude someone from knowing that their actions are wrong.

As hard as it is for me to hear this story, I can't yet make up my mind on the mom and how I feel about what her future should hold. Knowing what happened to this little one is so devastating, and yet, the reasonable side of me knows how mental illness can play a role in such a tragedy.