Found Deceased TX - Sherin Mathews, 3, Richardson, 7 Oct 2017 #7 *Arrests*

[Margo/Mom]

Respectfully disagree. Does not come down to a need to put distance between them and ourselves.

It's not about us. We are not part of the equation.

Comes down to one reason, and one reason only.

Justice for this precious child...



JMO

I think we all want justice.

 

[crelisacorder]

My son's good foster family fought their local county CPS. I forget the issue, but it had to do with corruption. As a result they received no more placements. However, they were not done, so they were able to be approved by the next county over (my state is highly localized)--which is how they came to be family to my son before handing him over, with tears and broken hearts, to me. They chose--putting his needs over their love--and I am forever grateful.

Cannot love this enough!!!!

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[crelisacorder]

Can you perhaps consider that others might have possibly erred in terms of placement, or lack of intervention?

I have a hard time believing that these two people simply woke up one day and decided to kill their child and toss her out like garbage. Or that they adopted with that in mind.

Again, I think it comes down to a need to put distance between them and ourselves--they are just bad, bad people.

The downside to that kind of thinking is that it does little to inform ongoing public policy. IOW placing children with "good" people and somehow figuring out in advance who the "bad" people are. Life, and people, are much more complicated than that.

Bingo!

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[Grouchymom]

Anyone have any legal insight or even just a guess as to what will now occur at the custody hearing on the 29th (1pm) now that both parents are in jail?

Previously, the goal was for Sini to regain custody since only WM was in jail at that time. So what would be the "point" or the goal now?

It is unlikely that anything major will occur this hearing. CPS/DSS/DFACS will inform the court of the placement transfer to family. They may ask to judge to schedule a permanency hearing but I believe they will just ask for the next review date due to the short period of time the family placement has had to observe/review and the outstanding autopsy report.

WM and Sini’s lawyer’s (if their clients are brought from the jail) will ask that custody be transferred to family and the case closed. However, the judge will have no part of it. Their attorneys will oppose any mention of a permanency hearing if it is brought up because their clients have not yet been convicted.
Again it won’t buy them much more than 1 more review hearing. If the parents are not there their attorneys will attempt to get yet another continuance. That could be a coin toss but the only gain for them is that this is still the original hearing to determine if there was just cause to remove the child. Officially until that hearing is completed they are only accused of which ever offense they used to remove her. I am going to assume since we haven’t heard the actual CPS/DSS/DFACS charges against them it would ne neglect.

Oh they may bring up reunification efforts. CPS/DSS/DFACS will be opposed Mathews attorneys will demand them. If both parents are still incarcerated it will be mute. The decision may be delayed to the next hearing pending autopsy.

JMHO

 

[georgiajean]

I think we all want justice.

Agreed.

I want to know what happened, how things broke down, how the system failed Sherin and how the Mathews failed Sherin. If we don't examine that, we will fail to learn and prevent future tragedy.

To say that these people were evil is to say that we can't learn anything, that we can't prevent something similar in the future. IMO only.

I think they broke, and once they broke, they were no longer responding as human beings or loving parents. They will pay for their actions, I am in no way giving them a pass or saying "Oh, poor Sini and Wesley." No. I want to know when things broke down and how, and why those that were observing for the specific purpose of monitoring the adoption did not see the signs.

I think it is difficult to consider that they might have been good people, who broke down and lost their humanity, because it raises the question of whether it could happen to me in the perfect storm of events. Could I lose my compass and do horrible things? I don't think so. But I know that I want to know what happened here, so we can gain a better understanding of why this happened. It may well be that they are just pure evil and there was nothing that could have been done. But my instinct says no.

I have been around families who have adopted children with trauma and RAD. It was amazing to see the difference between the behavior out in public and the behavior at home. Anyone who didn't know about RAD would have thought the parents were abusive or creating the problems because the children seemed near perfect, if not highly precocious, in public. And no, this does not excuse the Mathews' for their actions. Sherin was a little kid. But I remember watching these children and parents, and being completely in awe of what the parents were doing. And I doubted my ability to do the same, in similar circumstances.

 

[MissMalowe]

It is unlikely that anything major will occur this hearing. CPS/DSS/DFACS will inform the court of the placement transfer to family. They may ask to judge to schedule a permanency hearing but I believe they will just ask for the next review date due to the short period of time the family placement has had to observe/review and the outstanding autopsy report.

WM and Sini’s lawyer’s (if their clients are brought from the jail) will ask that custody be transferred to family and the case closed. However, the judge will have no part of it. Their attorneys will oppose any mention of a permanency hearing if it is brought up because their clients have not yet been convicted.
Again it won’t buy them much more than 1 more review hearing. If the parents are not there their attorneys will attempt to get yet another continuance. That could be a coin toss but the only gain for them is that this is still the original hearing to determine if there was just cause to remove the child. Officially until that hearing is completed they are only accused of which ever offense they used to remove her. I am going to assume since we haven’t heard the actual CPS/DSS/DFACS charges against them it would ne neglect.

Oh they may bring up reunification efforts. CPS/DSS/DFACS will be opposed Mathews attorneys will demand them. If both parents are still incarcerated it will be mute. The decision may be delayed to the next hearing pending autopsy.

JMHO

Thanks for the helpful clarification/predictions.

When you said

WM and Sini’s lawyer’s (if their clients are brought from the jail) will ask that custody be transferred to family and the case closed.

Would that be a permanent change (WM and SM no longer having any parental rights to the child) or would that be a temporary placement/custody since they are both incarcerated?

 

[Scarlett12]

Agreed.

I want to know what happened, how things broke down, how the system failed Sherin and how the Mathews failed Sherin. If we don't examine that, we will fail to learn and prevent future tragedy.

To say that these people were evil is to say that we can't learn anything, that we can't prevent something similar in the future. IMO only.

I think they broke, and once they broke, they were no longer responding as human beings or loving parents. They will pay for their actions, I am in no way giving them a pass or saying "Oh, poor Sini and Wesley." No. I want to know when things broke down and how, and why those that were observing for the specific purpose of monitoring the adoption did not see the signs.

I think it is difficult to consider that they might have been good people, who broke down and lost their humanity, because it raises the question of whether it could happen to me in the perfect storm of events. Could I lose my compass and do horrible things? I don't think so. But I know that I want to know what happened here, so we can gain a better understanding of why this happened. It may well be that they are just pure evil and there was nothing that could have been done. But my instinct says no.

I have been around families who have adopted children with trauma and RAD. It was amazing to see the difference between the behavior out in public and the behavior at home. Anyone who didn't know about RAD would have thought the parents were abusive or creating the problems because the children seemed near perfect, if not highly precocious, in public. And no, this does not excuse the Mathews' for their actions. Sherin was a little kid. But I remember watching these children and parents, and being completely in awe of what the parents were doing. And I doubted my ability to do the same, in similar circumstances.

I respectfully disagree.

I honestly don’t think the Mathews were ever “good “ people.

If someone good breaks down ( steals to feed a child, prostitution to provide a home , etc. ) there is remorse.

There’s no remorse here. Remorse is being honest and taking your lumps because as a good person you know you deserve them.

There isn’t even regret except on how it impacts their lives.. Sherin be damned. Every action they have done up to now speaks of narcissistic personalities and not of true remorse.

These two are scum of the earth.. and I’m sure it didn’t just start with Sherin.


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[georgiajean]

I respectfully disagree.

I honestly don’t think the Mathews were ever “good “ people.

If someone good breaks down ( steals to feed a child, prostitution to provide a home , etc. ) there is remorse.

There’s no remorse here. Remorse is being honest and taking your lumps because as a good person you know you deserve them.

There isn’t even regret except on how it impacts their lives.. Sherin be damned. Every action they have done up to now speaks of narcissistic personalities and not of true remorse.

These two are scum of the earth.. and I’m sure it didn’t just start with Sherin.


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I appreciate being able to have this respectful difference of opinions.
I definitely do not sense any remorse from either parent at this point. I don't believe they will ever be "good" people again. what they did completely severed their connection with their former identities as good people.

I believe that basically good people are capable to doing horrible things, given the "right" set of circumstances. Those circumstances include power, control, social status, and the influence of others.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/03/18/good-people-can-turn-evil/ "Eminent social psychologist Phil Zimbardo has made a career on the study of coercion, obedience, and evil. After years of research he has developed a theory on how good people can turn evil. Essentially, he believes that given the right social conditions, most people lose their moral compass and can commit acts that they would not think they were capable of"

While I was searching for information on evil and good, I came across this statement on a message board, which really gives me food for thought, so wanted to share. It's just someone's opinion, but it captures something I am thinking about::

The reality is evil isn't something inherent in people, evil is something that comes from people becoming progressively more willing to accept immoral actions.
This can come based on one of three basic ways:
1. Having a goal and in pursuit of that goal, justifying worse and worse actions along the way.
2. Identifying a philosophical enemy and gradually becoming more permissive of extreme actions towards that group.
3. Extreme reactions to a strong perceived injustice while in an emotional cloud.

I can see how numbers 1 or 3 might have played a role in the Mathews' killing of their daughter. Their goal of "teaching" Sherin to behave and "making" her drink her drink became more important than the precious life in front of them. Or either parent's perception of injustice in how Sherin "was treating them." And perceived embarrassment, rejection, etc. They over-reacted, extremely, in an emotional cloud....

What stands out for me is the notion of how some people can gradually rationalize and accept increasingly awful things. The capacity of the human mind to rationalize is incredible.

 

[Laughing]

Thanks for the helpful clarification/predictions.

When you said

Would that be a permanent change (WM and SM no longer having any parental rights to the child) or would that be a temporary placement/custody since they are both incarcerated?

Temporary, with whatever wording Texas uses. Specific family members may be named Guardian; may be physical custodian while the child remains in the Temporary Legal Custody of the State of Texas.

This will not be a termination of parental rights, we are unlikely to see that.

 

[Grouchymom]

Thanks for the helpful clarification/predictions.

When you said

Would that be a permanent change (WM and SM no longer having any parental rights to the child) or would that be a temporary placement/custody since they are both incarcerated?

Yes, it is supposed to be a permanent change but I have seen family hand the children back to the over parent(s) they were supposed to be protecting them from.But it would take CPS out of the equation until such time as any other concern was reported. The guardians would have both physical and legal custody until such time as a judge would see benefit to dissolve it. And the taxpayers of the state of Texas would no longer provide payment for her support to the guardian. The kinship placement would be a guardianship without the benefit of adoption. And if both parents agreed the Termination of Parental Rights would not be necessary. If the parents do not agree to it or if this placement disrupts and she goes back to fostercare make no mistake their parental rights will be terminated quickly.

 

[jnblsm]

Thanks - I did forget.

I've been doing so much scrolling and rolling that I lost track of case developments.

jmo

There's definitely a ton of passion here...

Okay. What is coming up next regarding the court cases?

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[JazzTune]

There's definitely a ton of passion here...

Okay. What is coming up next regarding the court cases?

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Raising my hand. Tons of passion from me, for sure.

I don't apologize for my feelings but I am sorry if my posts seem to be catalysts for anger instead of discussion points.

I sincerely don't intend to come across as if I have a chip on my shoulder. Never meant to put anyone else on the defensive. Everyone is entitled to their views and shouldn't feel as if they HAVE to explain them.

I am so impressed by the level of commitment and caring shown here by all, especially by those who are adoptive parents themselves.

I have learned immensely from their posts. Even when I disagree with their views on this case, their opinions are thoughtfully conveyed. Their efforts have not been in vain at all.

So I will try to tone down the rhetoric. I know everyone is here because we all care about this child...



JMO

 

[JazzTune]

I think we all want justice.

You're right. I know you do!

Very sorry for the way my post was worded...

 

[rosesfromangels]

It’s all good Jazz. People can breeze through or read in detail. Lots to learn on both sides of the position.

 

[jnblsm]

Raising my hand. Tons of passion from me, for sure.

I don't apologize for my feelings but I am sorry if my posts seem to be catalysts for anger instead of discussion points.

I sincerely don't intend to come across as if I have a chip on my shoulder. Never meant to put anyone else on the defensive. Everyone is entitled to their views and shouldn't feel as if they HAVE to explain them.

I am so impressed by the level of commitment and caring shown here by all, especially by those who are adoptive parents themselves.

I have learned immensely from their posts. Even when I disagree with their views on this case, their opinions are thoughtfully conveyed. Their efforts have not been in vain at all.

So I will try to tone down the rhetoric. I know everyone is here because we all care about this child...



JMO

I certainly wouldn't tell anyone how or what to post. Sorry if it came across like that.
I just meant there's really long posts here and it gets confusing about the actual facts.
By the time I read through, I forget facts sometimes.

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[MissMalowe]

Raising my hand. Tons of passion from me, for sure.

I don't apologize for my feelings but I am sorry if my posts seem to be catalysts for anger instead of discussion points.

I sincerely don't intend to come across as if I have a chip on my shoulder. Never meant to put anyone else on the defensive. Everyone is entitled to their views and shouldn't feel as if they HAVE to explain them.

I am so impressed by the level of commitment and caring shown here by all, especially by those who are adoptive parents themselves.

I have learned immensely from their posts. Even when I disagree with their views on this case, their opinions are thoughtfully conveyed. Their efforts have not been in vain at all.

So I will try to tone down the rhetoric. I know everyone is here because we all care about this child...



JMO

I don't think that's what your post did. I think we simply had similar feelings on a specific subject, described them very differently and therefore misunderstood one another. No chip here or hard feelings at all nor did I get the impression that you have a chip. Most people here are passionate (myself included) because a sweet little 3 year old (who already seemed to have a terribly rough start in life) died and was thrown away in a culvert like she didn't matter. She mattered. Her life was precious and she deserved to live a long one to the fullest.

Tons of good ideas / theories / personal thoughts / personal stories have been shared here. We may not all agree on each theory or thought, but they are all still valuable because the way in which they are presented or, more importantly, the reason why. It's often the theories I don't originally think are likely that lead me to either dig further or in a different direction to support the theories I thought were more likely or more often, it helps me explore other options or ideas and keeps me from having tunnel vision when I would otherwise have my mind focused on one thing vs many other things that other posters bring to the table.

 

[MissMalowe]

There's definitely a ton of passion here...

Okay. What is coming up next regarding the court cases?

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Oct 27 9am (Tomorrow, Sini Mathews bond reduction hearing)

Oct 29 1pm (Wednesday) Older Mathews Daughter/Biological Daughter's custody hearing

*CST

 

[jnblsm]

Oct 27 9am (Tomorrow, Sini Mathews bond reduction hearing)

Oct 29 1pm (Wednesday) Older Mathews Daughter/Biological Daughter's custody hearing

*CST

Thank you!

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[CookieM]

Oct 27 9am (Tomorrow, Sini Mathews bond reduction hearing)

Oct 29 1pm (Wednesday) Older Mathews Daughter/Biological Daughter's custody hearing

*CST

I really hope they do not reduce her bond. In my opinion, until they get a full autopsy report, I think she needs to stay where she is. In other words, if the autopsy shows any indication of past abuse, or if the tox report shows drugs that she had access to via her occupation, then she needs to stay put. Until that is released, at least.

 

[bleuboy]

I really hope they do not reduce her bond. In my opinion, until they get a full autopsy report, I think she needs to stay where she is. In other words, if the autopsy shows any indication of past abuse, or if the tox report shows drugs that she had access to via her occupation, then she needs to stay put. Until that is released, at least.

I hope they don't reduce it either. I've stayed awake thinking the tox results would be released (12.50 here in UK) but I can't keep my eyes open any longer.