TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #43

[Jethro4WS]

A few photos of just the camera locations (though those might have changed if they upgraded their security camera which they should have) would have helped. A photo of the south hallway at the east end looking west would have helped. A photo in the east hallway at the south end looking north would have helped. But that didn't happen. Aside from camera locations the other photos would still be helpful because those areas have no photos anywhere that I am aware of.

 

[Cannonball3804]

Let the church move on in peace with out ppl coming in for fame pictures

What in the world are you talking about? "Fame pictures"? I'm talking about documenting the layout of the space in order to try to better understand the movements (and maybe the motivation) of the killer. "Fame" has nothing to do with it. It also has nothing to do with them "moving on" which they seem to have done just fine.

 

[Oregonmama]

What in the world are you talking about? "Fame pictures"? I'm talking about documenting the layout of the space in order to try to better understand the movements (and maybe the motivation) of the killer. "Fame" has nothing to do with it. It also has nothing to do with them "moving on" which they seem to have done just fine.

It has been 2 years and the church shouldn't have to deal with ppl just coming in to take pics. We may never know how the church members are feeling at this point unless you have personally talked to every member. But we all know that ppl in Mithlodian are still on edge according to news articles. In regards to the movements we have been discussing that for a long time as well and hopefully someone is getting rattled at the moment because the sp can not keep on lying forever to cover their tracks JMO

 

[Cannonball3804]

It has been 2 years and the church shouldn't have to deal with ppl just coming in to take pics. We may never know how the church members are feeling at this point unless you have personally talked to every member. But we all know that ppl in Mithlodian are still on edge according to news articles. In regards to the movements we have been discussing that for a long time as well and hopefully someone is getting rattled at the moment because the sp can not keep on lying forever to cover their tracks JMO

No one has to "deal with" a person getting up to run to the bathroom and snapping a few phone pics along the way. It affects no one.

 

[SteveS]

Steve I think you've (perhaps inadvertently) made a perfect argument against a random intruder. A rando would take off running or push her down and flee. Petty criminals don't normally kill someone with a hammer causing head and chest wounds because they were interrupted while vandalizing. And if they were scared because they took the helmet off in the bathroom, as some have suggested, why is there no DNA? Not a hair? Not a drop of sweat or blood? I just don't see the random stranger argument.

I do think there are more scenarios than you offer in which "rando burglar" turns into murderer. For example, burglar could have swung a crowbar with the thought that he would knock out MB and escape, and then it somehow was worse than expected ...or it may have been an attempt to escape was thwarted and SP-the-burglar decided there was no choice but to kill MB to keep from being somehow identified or detained. And specific locations and potential limitations that could have caused - which we really don't know - could have played a major role somehow (such as SP inadvertently being in the bathroom at the time MB entered the building, and then "trapped" there, creating a need to strike blows).

But you do make some excellent points which certainly are great arguments for SP-the-planned-killer as the reason why SP was there. I don't disagree with that at all.

That's part of the problem with this case: it is maybe this, but maybe not. There's simply not enough defining evidence to say it had to be A instead of B, ie almost everything except date and place is a case of it could be this, or instead it could be that, or instead it could be the other, and so on, and no way to narrow it down with any certainty.

 

[SteveS]

I didn’t miss a crucial point. I read every word you said. It’s pretty clear that this person pulled of this crime with some precision, I’m assuming that swat outfit is long gone. Destroyed. Burned and no longer exists. JMHO

I certainly agree with this. I can't imagine any scenario in which SP would still have that outfit. Why would they hold onto something that can tie them to a murder? Even if you think SP is stupid, it wouldn't take much smarts to understand that. It's probably been scoured with bleach, then destroyed by acid, then burned, then the ashes scattered in a lake somewhere to feed the fishes.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I certainly agree with this. I can't imagine any scenario in which SP would still have that outfit. Why would they hold onto something that can tie them to a murder? Even if you think SP is stupid, it wouldn't take much smarts to understand that. It's probably been scoured with bleach, then destroyed by acid, then burned, then the ashes scattered in a lake somewhere to feed the fishes.

My thoughts exactly. That outfit is long gone.


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[DeDee]

Perhaps the church values their establishment and don't want endless tourists to snap pics. A church is not Elvis' s Graceland home

The reason I only snapped shots of the exterior is because I felt, while inside the Church, that I was standing on hallowed grounds.

Other than myself, there are two other members that I know of who visited CCoC.

1) This person looked around the exterior. Peeked inside the SW doors while standing outside. This person remembers the SW corner not being as wide as the new image depicts.

2) This person did snap photos of the interior while standing outdoors. The sunlight shone very brightly upon the glass doors. The glare on the doors rendered the photos useless to some degree.

 

[dcfromcc]

i once did a random paper in psychology class about some of the things dealing with "using gender appropriate restroom in times of crisis". while if she was interrupted, it wouldnt of been in time of crisis, and my paper was more about people who have hid in womens restrooms when mass shooters are on the loose, i would say if the person was in there, it is probably a female. its a high probability but certainly not 100 percent fact.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

i once did a random paper in psychology class about some of the things dealing with "using gender appropriate restroom in times of crisis". while if she was interrupted, it wouldnt of been in time of crisis, and my paper was more about people who have hid in womens restrooms when mass shooters are on the loose, i would say if the person was in there, it is probably a female. its a high probability but certainly not 100 percent fact.

Unless, the person wasn’t necessarily hiding out of fear of being caught but waiting to attack, no? Then I feel like the probability of the sp’s gender moves from probably female to either gender. Unless, I’m misunderstanding you.


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[moslym3]

I want to point out that the view of the camera doesn't necessarily represent the area covered by the sensors activating the cameras (i think the sensors cover a smaller area than the full camera view). I think that's why the scene in the main hallway sort of starts with SP near the first door he enters. It's very possible that the assault took place in the main hallway, just beyond the range that would trigger the camera, which doesn't seem to be too far - maybe even closer to the main foyer.

Also - I mentioned earlier when cannonball first shared the recent photo that I thought it looked different. New blue wall where i thought there was previously a small hallway leading to more bathrooms or something. I'm unsure where the female restroom was/is today or if they did some remodeling over there. I'm confused by that space.

 

[janesmith787]

I personally don’t want to go and take pictures because it makes me uncomfortable. Yes, life goes on and the church has to continue to thrive, but I don’t want to see it in person. That’s JMO.


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[dcfromcc]

i didnt mean hiding out of fear, but more of just using the bathroom and in that instance, even in a time of chaos used the gender appropriate one.

Unless, the person wasn’t necessarily hiding out of fear of being caught but waiting to attack, no? Then I feel like the probability of the sp’s gender moves from probably female to either gender. Unless, I’m misunderstanding you.


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[SteveS]

Let’s just assume for sake of conversation that the sp was in the bathroom and MB caught them off guard. Why do you think they would be in the women’s bathroom and not the men’s?

I think they are in the women's bathroom because YOU unilaterally choose to put them there in your question. (I didn't assume women's bathroom, or any particular spot. You did.) So that's a question for you to answer: why do you think MB would have been in the women's bathroom? If you don't think that would be likely, pick another place instead for your examination of the idea of how/where SP might have been inadvertently "trapped" with a sense he had to fight his way past MB to escape.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Okay. As near as I can tell, since the murder occurred, that part of the church has changed. I have to find a source frame from a news video to be more certain of what I want to say about that but I can use an image I had previously used for another purpose. Don't get distracted too much by the labeling in the image.

In particular, I have to go back and get frames from that news video and isolate a different part over the reporter's left shoulder (to the right in the image). I indicate doors across from each other in that area on the map and that is still likely the case. But, the presence of the dark wall with the clock and fountain I am not sure were there. My impression is that the "hall" went further back toward the west. How, far I can't tell from any images we have but if I recall from examining the enlarged frames from that news video that there was some depth west of where the dark door is seen over the reporter's shoulder. This is why on the map I show the "hall" continuing west of the SW entry doors.

That is the ladies room door seeing. It's an illusion Jethro.

 

[arkansasmimi]

On my phone I can't see your images. But what you're saying would contradict what a member of the church said, and what other members of the church told him. You're suggesting that entire walls have been added, which is extensive remodeling. The church members say all they've done is Paint.

Well jmho all he need do is snap a photo of the fire escape thing. No way they did the major remodeling and no member know anything about it. Especially since they had church open in Wed night. And honestly only thing that matters is how church looked April 18, 2016. Just like now, they have alarms and more cameras outside and changes what crime scene was then . Jmho

 

[arkansasmimi]

A few photos of just the camera locations (though those might have changed if they upgraded their security camera which they should have) would have helped. A photo of the south hallway at the east end looking west would have helped. A photo in the east hallway at the south end looking north would have helped. But that didn't happen. Aside from camera locations the other photos would still be helpful because those areas have no photos anywhere that I am aware of.

Hey have ya checked out the room behind stage😋 Breakaway. That would be my dream picture too.

Good to see ya Jethro!!!

 

[arkansasmimi]

It has been 2 years and the church shouldn't have to deal with ppl just coming in to take pics. We may never know how the church members are feeling at this point unless you have personally talked to every member. But we all know that ppl in Mithlodian are still on edge according to news articles. In regards to the movements we have been discussing that for a long time as well and hopefully someone is getting rattled at the moment because the sp can not keep on lying forever to cover their tracks JMO

RBBM who would the suspect keep lying to? So far they seem to have covered their tracks so far. We don't know they are lying to anyone. I do hope suspect is rattled though.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think they are in the women's bathroom because YOU unilaterally choose to put them there in your question. (I didn't assume women's bathroom, or any particular spot. You did.) So that's a question for you to answer: why do you think MB would have been in the women's bathroom? If you don't think that would be likely, pick another place instead for your examination of the idea of how/where SP might have been inadvertently "trapped" with a sense he had to fight his way past MB to escape.

I’m only assuming that particular spot because it was said she could be seen through the doors when the campers arrived. I dont and have never believed the sp was trapped and had to fight their way out. I was replying in reference to the topic that was being discussed about mb “startling” the sp. My answer to those questions is she didn’t startle anyone, that person was waiting for her.


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[arkansasmimi]

The reason I only snapped shots of the exterior is because I felt, while inside the Church, that I was standing on hallowed grounds.

Other than myself, there are two other members that I know of who visited CCoC.

1) This person looked around the exterior. Peeked inside the SW doors while standing outside. This person remembers the SW corner not being as wide as the new image depicts.

2) This person did snap photos of the interior while standing outdoors. The sunlight shone very brightly upon the glass doors. The glare on the doors rendered the photos useless to some degree.

My daughter bought new home few years back. I saw photos from realtor. When I went to see first time I was shocked! Insert foot moment :facepalm: I said this isn't as big as photos show. It a huge room, but what happened is they take photos from a corner area! It gives an illusion. Same with the video and various photos we have seen. Jmho