TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #44

[cady]

One thought I had a while ago when the discussion was about where she went upon entering, the CG who works out at our church uses the whole space to run laps when they come inside. I know the workout varies but I think a little cardio running or walking is common and the way all 4 hallways wrap around the building I think she may have used that feature to get laps in. So she may have well been going to the kitchen and turning lights on along the way.

Was it reported anywhere by anyone that any lights were on? Were any lights always on? Were there dimmer switches? I agree that probably one of the first things Missy would do upon entering would have been to turn lights on in the area she planned to use for the workout. In previous camera discussions, were the cameras identified by brand? When a motion camera is activated, is there a tiny light that comes on that is part of the device......that would be visible, if someone were specifically looking for it? Remember in one SP frame, SP is looking directly into a camera. Maybe SP was spending 30 minutes before the assault checking out the operation of various cameras for the best spot to lie in wait. LOL just questions and thoughts.....as usual, no answers. JMO

 

[No it's not]

The church map that I have is to scale. The church map reflects the exact dimensions of the church both inside and outside. It is represented in points where each point is 4 inches. All the rooms that are on the outside edge of the building on the North, East, and South sides all have one dimension (depth) that is 28 feet from the exterior wall to the wall with the hallway. The hallways on the North, East, and South sides are all 8 feet wide. The rooms on the West side of the building have one dimension that is 20 feet from the exterior wall to the wall with the hallway. The West hall is 16 feet wide.

The other dimension of the rooms (width) are exact where I have one or more photographs of the room. That is done by counting ceiling tiles. The color code on the map indicates which rooms we have photos or videos of the inside of the room. One caveat is the Kitchen area is colored differently but the dimensions are exact because we have several photographs of those rooms. The other caveat is that the office area which is colored differently (matches the rug color from video/photos) however there is video from inside there that allowed the two western-most office rooms and the small room along the hall in front of those two to be sized exactly.

There are black squares along the outer walls and within the sanctuary that are visible structural columns. These are visible in either photos and videos and these are used to align and thus exactly position the rooms based on column alignment. This column alignment is consistent across the church north to south. Columns align differently on the West and East sides. This is due to the structural support needs of the the large entryway on the west side and the structural support needs for the stage area on the east side.

Any space left over that indicates a room is there but we have no photo or video showing that room (or in the case of the rooms in the corners behind the stage we simply can't be sure which one it is) are marked in red though the dimensions of the rooms there must be that size as they are bounded by other areas or rooms with known dimensions, ergo whats left is the dimensions of the room even if we haven't seen it.

Positions of doors and windows are a bit trickier. Because I used a 1 point equals 4 inches scale doors can't always be easily aligned since many of the room doors are 30 inch wide doors. Window positions are determined by counting roof "slats" (not really slats) but you can see these from satellite images of the building and they are two feet wide (determined by counting all of them and dividing that into the dimensions of the building which is 192x168 and the sanctuary has dimensions of 120x90).

The dimensions of the church building itself comes from the tax records where the dimensions are given for the building and for the covered areas outside. Those covered areas are labeled as concrete.

Every attempt has been to make it as accurate as possible. But at a minimum it is always to scale.

Jethro, my friend, you rock! Thank you!

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I’ve been thinking about what could have been in that closet that the SP put in his right pocket and had in his left hand in the end of the video. What supplies would a CoC have? Holy water bottles!! The image on the side of the box in my opinion looks like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that CCoC doesn’t use the practice of Holy Water.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The church map that I have is to scale. The church map reflects the exact dimensions of the church both inside and outside. It is represented in points where each point is 4 inches. All the rooms that are on the outside edge of the building on the North, East, and South sides all have one dimension (depth) that is 28 feet from the exterior wall to the wall with the hallway. The hallways on the North, East, and South sides are all 8 feet wide. The rooms on the West side of the building have one dimension that is 20 feet from the exterior wall to the wall with the hallway. The West hall is 16 feet wide.

The other dimension of the rooms (width) are exact where I have one or more photographs of the room. That is done by counting ceiling tiles. The color code on the map indicates which rooms we have photos or videos of the inside of the room. One caveat is the Kitchen area is colored differently but the dimensions are exact because we have several photographs of those rooms. The other caveat is that the office area which is colored differently (matches the rug color from video/photos) however there is video from inside there that allowed the two western-most office rooms and the small room along the hall in front of those two to be sized exactly.

There are black squares along the outer walls and within the sanctuary that are visible structural columns. These are visible in either photos and videos and these are used to align and thus exactly position the rooms based on column alignment. This column alignment is consistent across the church north to south. Columns align differently on the West and East sides. This is due to the structural support needs of the the large entryway on the west side and the structural support needs for the stage area on the east side.

Any space left over that indicates a room is there but we have no photo or video showing that room (or in the case of the rooms in the corners behind the stage we simply can't be sure which one it is) are marked in red though the dimensions of the rooms there must be that size as they are bounded by other areas or rooms with known dimensions, ergo whats left is the dimensions of the room even if we haven't seen it.

Positions of doors and windows are a bit trickier. Because I used a 1 point equals 4 inches scale doors can't always be easily aligned since many of the room doors are 30 inch wide doors. Window positions are determined by counting roof "slats" (not really slats) but you can see these from satellite images of the building and they are two feet wide (determined by counting all of them and dividing that into the dimensions of the building which is 192x168 and the sanctuary has dimensions of 120x90).

The dimensions of the church building itself comes from the tax records where the dimensions are given for the building and for the covered areas outside. Those covered areas are labeled as concrete.

Every attempt has been to make it as accurate as possible. But at a minimum it is always to scale.

Thank you for this. And for all of your diligent work scaling the map as accurately as possible.

 

[Mistree]

We only know the time the warrant was issued (signed by the judge). We don't know when it was submitted to the judge. We also don't know if at the time the autopsy was complete that the cause of death was known. It may have required further analysis of tissue samples and that would not happen while the autopsy was in progress but afterward.

As I have opined quite a while ago, I believe Missy was shot. However, I believe that no bullets or fragments of bullets were recovered at the scene or from her body (I don't believe a regular bullet was used). And that it was only determined from looking at tissue samples (particularly the brain) away from the wounds which would show injury consistent with high velocity impact. But I say now as I said then, I could very well be wrong.

I am still and actually, even more so now in agreement with your statement.

 

[cady]

From the very beginning of this case, when I watched the first video released, I have thought SP is a woman. So here goes my theory (my opinion only!):

SP is a female very close to Bevers family, or a member of it. Because of her familial familiarity, she would know Missy's routine for the fitness classes at this particular location (maybe even attended at one time or another), and would know if and when one of Missy's daughters planned to accompany Missy to her class. (As a close family member, she would know all this without having to ask pointed questions.)

As per reasoning above, she would know everyone's whereabouts. Did the deed while BB out of town, did it away from the house (and the daughters), didn't do it in a manner to get the truck bloody because BB would eventually get the truck back.

This is is also why BB is not pushing harder to have this case resolved. He suspects who it is, and wants to spare his daughters losing someone else they love. (Losing to prison, and knowing someone they love killed their mother.)

SP dressed in gear that was available to her, and likewise, the tools she took to the church were ones to which she had access. (Early on, a rumor had Missy stopping at a fire station the day (?) prior to the murder, so for SP to be using a tool commonly used by firefighters is of interest.)

SP thought something might be going on with Missy and SP's significant other (firefighter or LE?), either perceived it or believed it. BB had already dealt with Missy's affairs or suspicions of such, and so SP had had it with Missy.

She ambushed Missy, then beat her to death. Punctured Missy's breast implants and disfigured her by doing so, which either was, or became, her intention. (Because, how dare Missy.)

She is someone who has never been in trouble with the law for anything major. She is under the radar because she is the last person anyone would believe could do such a thing. Never did anything like this before, and probably never will again.

I have wondered if SP's first intention was just to scare Missy or to wound her somehow, but then she got caught up in anger and lost control.

All the above is just my supposition and a working theory of my own creation. IMO, etc.

Almost exactly my theory since late May 2016 as well!!!! Also, neither of the two possibilities as I see it, were listed on the search warrants. And they may have helped each other pull this horror off. THANKS. JMO

 

[Cryptic]

From the very beginning of this case, when I watched the first video released, I have thought SP is a woman. So here goes my theory (my opinion only!):

I really like your profile and also the “used tools / uniform that she had ready access to could be very telling.

I also like your point about how familiar the perpetrator seems with the building. He/she is not creeping around semi commando style, not straining to hear an arrival, not jumping at shadows. Rather they seem to know not only when the victim will arrive, but where they will be.

I think a motive based on the victim’s lifestyle aspect could have two likely general backgrounds:

1. Enraged female perpetrator has been personally impacted by the lifestyle (affair with spouse or signiant other)
2. Perpetrator feels that the lifestyle has impugned the family honor. Becomes enraged after he / she feels that either the lifestyle in general or a particular manifestation of it “Went too far... .”.

With the above in mind, I would add one more possible point to the profile:

Strong willed, type A personality with either a
- "Don't ever take what is mine- and especially not my man" or
- "If I have had enough of something I don't like, and I tell you to stop or tone it down- you had better do it." type attitude.

 

[WannaBDetective]

Not sure what I have to add on this issue matters, since it doesn't tell us who brought the gun. But just for clarification ...

I have pictures of every CCoC exterior and entrance, and there are no signs posted saying that firearms are prohibited. At my church (which is in the broad vicinity), I have never seen a sign relating to guns there either.

I suspect that any prohibition that existed would more likely have been verbal, ie if someone brought a gun to the building, they could (and probably would) have been told, "We don't want you bringing a gun here."

But at 4-6 am, no one is there but the class (and this time, also a perp). There's no one to even notice a gun, or to tell them not to have it, and some people do deliberately carry one when they go to a dark secluded building at night (my brother does, when he visits his business). So if they felt like it, there's probably nothing that would have kept some camper or instructor with one from bringing it into the building every class without anyone knowing, and even being legal in doing so.

I think this is accurate. Also attend church in the general vicinity. I know there are at least 10-15 guns on any given day, politely concealed. In fact, our pastor has joked several times that if a gunman were to enter the church, he’s more worried about getting shot in the crossfire. Lol

 

[Thekt]

Almost exactly my theory since late May 2016 as well!!!! Also, neither of the two possibilities as I see it, were listed on the search warrants. And they may have helped each other pull this horror off. THANKS. JMO

...
Cady, it's been one of my top 2 theories as well almost from the start. I lean towards one of the two I believe you are referencing, although could be the other, or both. Definitely on my radar. Surprised others don't bring it up often or have some of the same vibes.

 

[cady]

...
Cady, it's been one of my top 2 theories as well almost from the start. I lean towards one of the two I believe you are referencing, although could be the other, or both. Definitely on my radar. Surprised others don't bring it up often or have some of the same vibes.

Several others have agreed with the theory, but exploring it created a kerfuffle because of sleuthing TOS. The main argument against discussing was that neither was listed on the search warrant.........and then later because it was claimed that BB's family members had all been CLEARED.........which, in my humble opinion is nonsense. Even BB himself said in an interview in late May 2016, essentially, that no one is immune, including himself, until the killer is caught, as investigators see it...and that that is the way it should be. He also went on to basically forgive the killer. The way he talked gave me the impression that he either knew who the killer was, or suspected that he knew. We all have different impressions of BB, and why he says what he says and does what he does......as with all of the other characters in this case. Very early in the case, I was really stuck on CT being the perp, as was a good majority of posters and there was lots of circumstantial evidence to suspect her.....but I just couldn't see how she could have pulled it off with leaving a bunch of little kids alone at home...... whoever did this had to have had the motive, opportunity and means to pull it off. JMO JMO

 

[Jethro4WS]

Was it reported anywhere by anyone that any lights were on? Were any lights always on? Were there dimmer switches? I agree that probably one of the first things Missy would do upon entering would have been to turn lights on in the area she planned to use for the workout. In previous camera discussions, were the cameras identified by brand? When a motion camera is activated, is there a tiny light that comes on that is part of the device......that would be visible, if someone were specifically looking for it? Remember in one SP frame, SP is looking directly into a camera. Maybe SP was spending 30 minutes before the assault checking out the operation of various cameras for the best spot to lie in wait. LOL just questions and thoughts.....as usual, no answers. JMO

Dedee mentioned in her posts of her visit to the church that when walking the halls there were purple lights in the ceiling that would come on as you went down the hall and then went off. I don't believe she mentioned how many in the halls or where located or how far apart if more than one in a hall. Those lights, based on the description given, could very well be connected to the motion detection. Though since this visit occurred after Missy's murder we can't rule out that they were only installed after and were not present at the time of her murder.

That said, there are instances where SP is in the West hallway and in the South hallway when coming back to the West where there appear to be purplish reflections either the floor, SP, a hue near on the walls but due to the quality of the video it is hard to know if the color is the result of such a light or the result of video quality. If we could know one way or the other we would know if SP had a visual cue to work from when moving or even more importantly not moving as the case may be.

 

[Philigumbo]

I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that CCoC doesn’t use the practice of Holy Water.

No, they don’t.

 

[DeDee]

Dedee mentioned in her posts of her visit to the church that when walking the halls there were purple lights in the ceiling that would come on as you went down the hall and then went off. I don't believe she mentioned how many in the halls or where located or how far apart if more than one in a hall. Those lights, based on the description given, could very well be connected to the motion detection. Though since this visit occurred after Missy's murder we can't rule out that they were only installed after and were not present at the time of her murder.

That said, there are instances where SP is in the West hallway and in the South hallway when coming back to the West where there appear to be purplish reflections either the floor, SP, a hue near on the walls but due to the quality of the video it is hard to know if the color is the result of such a light or the result of video quality. If we could know one way or the other we would know if SP had a visual cue to work from when moving or even more importantly not moving as the case may be.

To the very best of my memory, of the Summer 2016 visit to the interior of CCoC, the motion detectors were located in the overhead lights in both the South and North Hallways. That is also where the CCTV shows them the best as being reflected, at one point, on SPs helmet in the South Corridor, and along the black plastic lining that seals the walls and the floors along those hallways in the CCTV. Were the same style sensors in the W and E hallways? I do not recall.

When attending a Crime Scene, as an innocent curiosity seeker, one is on high alert. When I entered the West Main Foyer, the room to the immediate right was an office. The door was swung wide open. I saw a lady with a phone receiver in her hand. I did not expect that.

I walked, without missing a beat, directly straight ahead, to the female greeter, who presented me kindly with a service program. There was absolutely zero nada zilch clutter along the hallways. I accepted the program and turned to my right proceeding down the West Hallway to the South corner. At that point, I could see both the west and the south hallways as well as the Porte Cochere.

To my right was an alcove. Inside the alcove, that had medium blue walls not made of sheetrock, held two upholstered chairs. The Ladies Restroom was straight ahead on the Western wall, on the left side and the Men's Restroom on the right side. In between the two Restroom doors was a glass table. I entered the Ladies side. Upon walking out of the alcove, I stood for a moment. Outside of the blue alcove, to the right, while facing the alcove, on the western wall, was a wider door. There was a large sign that read "Family Restroom". It was at that point that I began walking down the South corridor.

When I passed the Dutch door, a male appeared at the end of the hall in the SE corner. He watched as I scribbled door #s on my tiny pad, as I passed each one. Before I reached the place where he had been standing, he was gone. I turned left to traverse the Eastern Corridor. Suddenly, a male appeared at the NE corner. No one was in sight except for the two of us. I continued toward the NE corner. The male was gone just as quickly as he appeared. I found myself in the NE corner facing the first Door #8. I did not photograph anything on the interior.

I did not spot lint on the men's slacks or dust on their shoes. We were never that close to one another. When I was walking to the West, along the North Corridor, I noticed the purple illumination of the sensors in the lights just as I did in the Southern Hallway. It was only one and it was in the center light. Less than Midway, toward the NW corner, a third male appeared, as my approach grew closer, he vanished. In other words, he was not still standing in the corner when I rounded it. I completed the circular tour and left the way I entered by the Main Entranceway in the Western Hallway. I was not alone although I did enter the Church alone.
** By the center, I mean, the purple sensors were in the ceiling lights between the corners where the hallways meet. The purple sensors were in the middle of the hallways inserted in the ceiling lights. There could have been more sensors but those two are the ones I recall most because I was not focused on the mystery men at those times. However, when the sensors were on, it was absolutely noticeable due to the change of color in the well-lit hallways.

Original from CCTV


Original Lightened

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

MB Autopsy was completed on Tues Morning April 19, 2016

SW for iPhone iPad Extraction was submitted by Lead Inv Cody Moon and signed by Judge April 19, 2016 @ 5:56pm.

SW has to be factual. So, IF a gun were used, that would mean that Suspect was seen carrying it throughout the building, as that is what CID Inv Cody Moon swore to. Surely the lead Inv would know what the Autopsy completed that morning would have said prior to swearing that the information to get the SW to extract the iPhone & iPad was correct to the best of his knowledge. JMHO

Terri Bevers' had multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest are consistent with the tools that the suspect was carrying throughout the building. "
"

POSTED: APR 19 2016 11:34AM CDT

VIDEO POSTED: APR 19 2016 09:25PM CDT

UPDATED: APR 20 2016 01:12PM CDT

MIDLOTHIAN, Texas - Police have determined how a fitness trainer died at a Midlothian church, but they are not releasing that information.

Missy Bevers’ autopsy was completed by the Dallas County Medical Examiner's Office Tuesday morning. Midlothian police said they are not ready to make that report public.
http://www.fox4news.com/news/fitness-trainers-cause-of-death-could-be-released-soon

RBBM.

I'm thinking I question the validity of the first bolded statement (RBBM):

"If a gun were used, that would mean that Suspect was seen carrying it throughout the building..."

A gun is not a tool, and "tools" is the only thing they've said (in this statement) that SP is seen carrying throughout the building. LE have, when questioned, also stated they'd not seen him carrying another weapon. That doesn't mean SP *wasn't* carrying one, nor have they sworn he wasn't carrying one, nor do they need to swear to seeing the murder weapon for her to have been killed by that specific one. That nothing is said about a gun being seen in the video only means IF he was carrying one it was concealed from camera view. And it is certainly likely (since SP seemed quite aware of the video cameras) that her killer would keep it concealed until ready to kill her with it, if that was his intended murder weapon.

What I read sworn on that particular quoted statement is that SP was seen carrying 'tools' throughout the building. The second bolded part is that LE have sworn in this statement that MB "had multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest" that were "consistent with the tools that the suspect was carrying throughout the building." Those are the two things sworn to. But while some will jump from the first statement and connect it to the second, others will not necessarily do so--we're not required to make that leap. Because factually, that statement stops just short of saying her mortal wounds were caused by a tool he was carrying. If hollow-point bullets were fired close range into her head and chest it could also leave 'multiple puncture wounds' and the sort of chaotic tissue damage that would be "consistent with" a bludgeoning attack with a breaching tool.

The reason some of us (at least me) are considering this interpretation of her death is not due to being contrary, believe it or not and it's not due to not reading and studying the documents. Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to interpret them and theorize about the case using the many other case facts I personally cannot ignore (eg. Texas Ranger involvement, Titan the dog coming in the day after autopsy, the sensitive firearm serial number that needed to not be mentioned in the warrant due to possibly being used illegally on another gun). We could be wrong--I could be wrong especially in my own particulars. But I have read multiple times (and am even re-reading) the highlighted documents, and am familiar with what they say. Just interpreting them differently, maybe.

If one studied the articles and reports in 2016 regarding the arrests of the 2 ECSO officers (see upthread for just a few), one would have read that "hundreds" of evidence room guns had been stolen, and many that were sold had been "marked for destruction." Some of the guns (both 'trial evidence' and 'marked for destruction' guns) were pawned in various pawn shops, but many were also sold individually via Facebook and other private contacts. While some of the pawned guns were recovered (which alerted LE to the fraud), and many were recovered stashed in a deputy's trailer, not all the guns were recovered. (At least according to the articles circulating at the time.) It's quite possible today that still not every serial number and/or gun has been accounted for. Very many of those serial numbers were on guns marked for destruction. So...which numbers (which guns) are still out there floating illegally from black market to black market for nontraceable use in crimes, or perhaps now buried in silt at the bottom of a pond?

Those would be the "sensitive" serial numbers...the ones that shouldn't appear in public documents like some search warrants.

I remember you discussing this long ago. Forgive me for not remembering the type of bullet you suspected, but wasn’t there a picture shared many threads back that resembled something that was like a dart type bullet?

I am still and actually, even more so now in agreement with your statement.

I share your view, Jethro, and am also interested in knowing what type of bullet you are considering in your theory.

 

[1&2&3]

Way back in the beginning, IIRC, there was discussion that the alcove in the picture we are looking at was an after thought. It was not in the original design or building. Also, I think there was changes made to the restrooms.

After two years, this alcove addition is very strong in my memory. The search feature and I don’t get along so I gave up using it! Perhaps one of our members will be able to find it.

IMO, the MPD is keeping too much under their vest! Everything is a secret and they don’t know much more than they did two years ago.

Is it possible that there were two people involved in this murder? The SP that has no problem being seen on camera is actually just a patsy to throw LE totally off. The actual murderer is never seen on camera just like Missy and the SP were not seen again after the murder? We have no idea how SP got out of the building either.

Just a few thoughts as to what is making this murder so difficult to solve. LE may be on the wrong track!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

RBBM.

I'm thinking I question the validity of the first bolded statement (RBBM):

"If a gun were used, that would mean that Suspect was seen carrying it throughout the building..."

A gun is not a tool, and "tools" is the only thing they've said (in this statement) that SP is seen carrying throughout the building. LE have, when questioned, also stated they'd not seen him carrying another weapon. That doesn't mean SP *wasn't* carrying one, nor have they sworn he wasn't carrying one, nor do they need to swear to seeing the murder weapon for her to have been killed by that specific one. That nothing is said about a gun being seen in the video only means IF he was carrying one it was concealed from camera view. And it is certainly likely (since SP seemed quite aware of the video cameras) that her killer would keep it concealed until ready to kill her with it, if that was his intended murder weapon.

What I read sworn on that particular quoted statement is that SP was seen carrying 'tools' throughout the building. The second bolded part is that LE have sworn in this statement that MB "had multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest" that were "consistent with the tools that the suspect was carrying throughout the building." Those are the two things sworn to. But while some will jump from the first statement and connect it to the second, others will not necessarily do so--we're not required to make that leap. Because factually, that statement stops just short of saying her mortal wounds were caused by a tool he was carrying. If hollow-point bullets were fired close range into her head and chest it could also leave 'multiple puncture wounds' and the sort of chaotic tissue damage that would be "consistent with" a bludgeoning attack with a breaching tool.

The reason some of us (at least me) are considering this interpretation of her death is not due to being contrary, believe it or not. and it's not due to not reading and studying the documents. Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to interpret them and theorize about the case using the many other case facts I personally cannot ignore (eg. Texas Ranger involvement, Titan the dog coming in the day after autopsy, the sensitive firearm serial number that needed to not be mentioned in the warrant due to possibly being used illegally on another gun). We could be wrong--I could be wrong especially in my own particulars. But I have read multiple times (and am even re-reading) the highlighted documents, and am familiar with what they say. Just interpreting them differently, maybe.

If one studied the articles and reports in 2016 regarding the arrests of the 2 ECSO officers, one would have read that "hundreds" of evidence room guns had been stolen, and many that were sold had been "marked for destruction." Some of the guns (both 'trial evidence' and 'marked for destruction' guns) were pawned in various pawn shops, but many were also sold individually via Facebook and other private contacts. While some of the pawned guns were recovered (which alerted LE to the fraud), and many were recovered stashed in a deputy's trailer, not all the guns were recovered. (At least according to the articles circulating at the time.) It's quite possible today that still not every serial number and/or gun has been accounted for. Very many of those serial numbers were on guns marked for destruction. So...which numbers (which guns) are still out there floating illegally from black market to black market for nontraceable use in crimes, or perhaps now buried in silt at the bottom of a pond?

Those would be the "sensitive" serial numbers...the ones that shouldn't appear in public documents like some search warrants.





I share your view, Jethro, and am also interested in knowing what type of bullet you are considering in your theory.

Excellent post, Poirotry. I touched on puncture wounds in the last thread. Gun shot wounds are medically defined as puncture wounds. LE does not have to specifically state “gunshot wound” in order to be considered factual. While using the term gunshot wound may be a more precise description, using the term puncture wound is also not a false statement.

IMO, it’s all about taking LE statements, SW’s, and factual documents and connecting the dots. Most of the wording is vague and is then interpreted at face value. Assumptions are easily made that the puncture wounds were inflicted by a hammer seen on cctv. That very well could be true, but it doesn’t eliminate the possibility of a gun being used either. Public confusion about the cause of death was the exact intentions of LE when using vague definitions, in order to conceal details from the public (understandably).

 

[arkansasmimi]

RBBM.

I'm thinking I question the validity of the first bolded statement (RBBM):

"If a gun were used, that would mean that Suspect was seen carrying it throughout the building..."

A gun is not a tool, and "tools" is the only thing they've said (in this statement) that SP is seen carrying throughout the building. LE have, when questioned, also stated they'd not seen him carrying another weapon. That doesn't mean SP *wasn't* carrying one, nor have they sworn he wasn't carrying one, nor do they need to swear to seeing the murder weapon for her to have been killed by that specific one. That nothing is said about a gun being seen in the video only means IF he was carrying one it was concealed from camera view. And it is certainly likely (since SP seemed quite aware of the video cameras) that her killer would keep it concealed until ready to kill her with it, if that was his intended murder weapon.

What I read sworn on that particular quoted statement is that SP was seen carrying 'tools' throughout the building. The second bolded part is that LE have sworn in this statement that MB "had multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest" that were "consistent with the tools that the suspect was carrying throughout the building." Those are the two things sworn to. But while some will jump from the first statement and connect it to the second, others will not necessarily do so--we're not required to make that leap. Because factually, that statement stops just short of saying her mortal wounds were caused by a tool he was carrying. If hollow-point bullets were fired close range into her head and chest it could also leave 'multiple puncture wounds' and the sort of chaotic tissue damage that would be "consistent with" a bludgeoning attack with a breaching tool.

The reason some of us (at least me) are considering this interpretation of her death is not due to being contrary, believe it or not and it's not due to not reading and studying the documents. Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to interpret them and theorize about the case using the many other case facts I personally cannot ignore (eg. Texas Ranger involvement, Titan the dog coming in the day after autopsy, the sensitive firearm serial number that needed to not be mentioned in the warrant due to possibly being used illegally on another gun). We could be wrong--I could be wrong especially in my own particulars. But I have read multiple times (and am even re-reading) the highlighted documents, and am familiar with what they say. Just interpreting them differently, maybe.

If one studied the articles and reports in 2016 regarding the arrests of the 2 ECSO officers (see upthread for just a few), one would have read that "hundreds" of evidence room guns had been stolen, and many that were sold had been "marked for destruction." Some of the guns (both 'trial evidence' and 'marked for destruction' guns) were pawned in various pawn shops, but many were also sold individually via Facebook and other private contacts. While some of the pawned guns were recovered (which alerted LE to the fraud), and many were recovered stashed in a deputy's trailer, not all the guns were recovered. (At least according to the articles circulating at the time.) It's quite possible today that still not every serial number and/or gun has been accounted for. Very many of those serial numbers were on guns marked for destruction. So...which numbers (which guns) are still out there floating illegally from black market to black market for nontraceable use in crimes, or perhaps now buried in silt at the bottom of a pond?

Those would be the "sensitive" serial numbers...the ones that shouldn't appear in public documents like some search warrants.

I share your view, Jethro, and am also interested in knowing what type of bullet you are considering in your theory.

I agree that a gun is not a "tool" in the sense of what "tools" we have seen suspect carrying around the building in the 2+ minutes of video released.

My point was that going by what is sworn to in a SW Affidavit on the evening after the autopsy was completed if it was as some are posing referenced to a gun To speculate the injuries were from a gun would have to be "seen" by someone viewing the video, as it is the only way Moon would have known that the suspect was carrying throughout the building. <

Respectfully the whole Affidavit for Probable Cause was sworn to as PC to to obtain the SW to extract the iPhone and iPad.

"Investigators arrived on scene and were able to access the video surveillance recordings from within the church. Investigators reviewed the video of the incident which shows a subject wearing a black helmet, black balaclava, dark pants, dark long sleeve shirt, black gloves, and a black vest with Police in white lettering on the front and back. The subject is seen walking throughout the building holding a hammer, breaking windows and going through offices."

Then the PC Affidavit goes on to tell time the victim MB observed entering building and states where, what she was seen doing and where she was walking toward. States that suspect nor victim were seen again on video. And where the victim was later found deceased.

Then it tells of MB injuries and references back to being consistent with the tools the suspect was carrying throughout the building.
"Terri Bevers' had multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest are consistent with the tools that the suspect was carrying throughout the building"

Why be so descriptive of what the suspect was wearing and note a hammer specificallycarrying throughout the building (as referenced 2 paragraphs prior) if something other than tools?

JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Excellent post, Poirotry. I touched on puncture wounds in the last thread. Gun shot wounds are medically defined as puncture wounds. LE does not have to specifically state &#8220;gunshot wound&#8221; in order to be considered factual. While using the term gunshot wound may be a more precise description, using the term puncture wound is also not a false statement.

IMO, it&#8217;s all about taking LE statements, SW&#8217;s, and factual documents and connecting the dots. Most of the wording is vague and is then interpreted at face value. Assumptions are easily made that the puncture wounds were inflicted by a hammer seen on cctv. That very well could be true, but it doesn&#8217;t eliminate the possibility of a gun being used either. Public confusion about the cause of death was the exact intentions of LE when using vague definitions, in order to conceal details from the public (understandably).

RBBM, I personally am not assuming anything. I am going by what is referenced in the Affidavit for PC. Which actually states a hammer is stated being carried throughout the building. Why make references back to being consistent with the tools the suspect was carrying throughout the building? Serious question not being argumentative.

"Investigators arrived on scene and were able to access the video surveillance recordings from within the church. Investigators reviewed the video of the incident which shows a subject wearing a black helmet, black balaclava, dark pants, dark long sleeve shirt, black gloves, and a black vest with Police in white lettering on the front and back. The subject is seen walking throughout the building holding a hammer, breaking windows and going through offices."

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Not sure what I have to add on this issue matters, since it doesn't tell us who brought the gun. But just for clarification ...

I have pictures of every CCoC exterior and entrance, and there are no signs posted saying that firearms are prohibited. At my church (which is in the broad vicinity), I have never seen a sign relating to guns there either.

I suspect that any prohibition that existed would more likely have been verbal, ie if someone brought a gun to the building, they could (and probably would) have been told, "We don't want you bringing a gun here."

But at 4-6 am, no one is there but the class (and this time, also a perp). There's no one to even notice a gun, or to tell them not to have it, and some people do deliberately carry one when they go to a dark secluded building at night (my brother does, when he visits his business). So if they felt like it, there's probably nothing that would have kept some camper or instructor with one from bringing it into the building every class without anyone knowing, and even being legal in doing so.

Thanks for this, SteveS. It's helpful to know the church's gun policy is not posted (even if they might have an oral understanding or agreement with church members). No telling if any camper would've brought a gun, as you say, if nothing was posted. And unless they were church members (and MB at least was not) they might not know the church policy on that. It would still be illegal to bring one onto the premises if there were an oral policy against it, but I'm also tending to think that if there were an enforced policy, the CCoC would've let Missy know when she signed on with them to use their facilities.

So, hard to know if a camper would've brought a gun. But, as Scarlett (?) upthread pointed out, a key thing is the wording stating that the gun's serial number needed to be kept secret so that it couldn't be illegally used or reported as stolen. Because of this, I'm tending to think they are talking about a stolen, confiscated, or supposedly destroyed gun rather than a gun legally owned by MB or a camper.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

RBBM, I personally am not assuming anything. I am going by what is referenced in the Affidavit for PC. Which actually states a hammer is stated being carried throughout the building. Why make references back to being consistent with the tools the suspect was carrying throughout the building? Serious question not being argumentative.

"Investigators arrived on scene and were able to access the video surveillance recordings from within the church. Investigators reviewed the video of the incident which shows a subject wearing a black helmet, black balaclava, dark pants, dark long sleeve shirt, black gloves, and a black vest with Police in white lettering on the front and back. The subject is seen walking throughout the building holding a hammer, breaking windows and going through offices."

Respectfully, I wasn’t implying in any way that you were assuming anything. I was saying that the affidavits are often taken at face value by the public and from those affidavits, it’s often then assumed by the public that the puncture wounds were caused by the hammer. My statement wasn’t directed towards you or at you. It was just an observation I’ve witnessed across the board on multiple sm platforms.

IMO, references were made back to the tools being consistent because they were consistent. I also believe that the remaining footage that is still unseen by the public shows more “tools” than what we are aware of. Or perhaps the crime scene revealed more “tools” than what we would normally refer to as tools. If we were to look at the vague wording of LE, a tool used in a murderous act could also be loose wording for a gun. A firearm when used in to kill someone is essentially a tool used for murder.

IMO, Missy was shot and she was also savagely disfigured with some kind of tool, ie, a hammer.

And because I’m too lazy tonight [emoji854]to type out this definition of tool, this is what makes me believe that a gun could have been consistent with a tool used in the murder.

As always, JMHO