TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #26

[erinp]

Unless LE has something on video, they would not know what Missy saw .

this is kind of my point. no-one would know what missy saw, unless LE has something, or an absence of something, on video.

BB claimed to know what missy did or did not see. Therefore in my opinion he either has that knowledge through some strange mechanism not accounted for, or LE shared with him some video or information about video, that they have not shared with us.

 

[Mollyandme]

We have seen 2:15 worth of video. There's a reason. Just because they say the cameras outside were not working dies not mean it is true. There are things the police don't not want us/perp to see. Cause of death and how is being withheld itself..very sketchy. We the public actually have a whole lot of NOTHING to go on when you think about it. There is reasoning in it. NOTHING IN THIS CASE IS WHAT IT SEEMS. There's a reason. I have a great deal of faith they are on a road to solving this not one of them want to be on.

Just wanted to comment on this because I think it brings up an interesting point and very good question regarding the church's outdoor cameras. I have also wondered in the past if all of the outdoor cameras at the church were in fact working and they said that they weren't for strategic purposes. I think it's something to consider and definitely not out of the realm of possibility. Thanks for the reminder of this possibility. I agree that they are well on their way to solving this and most likely know who is responsible, maybe this is wishful thinking but i still can't shake the feeling/observation I have that imo, all info released in the past month has been carefully worded to a specific person and those who know them, especially the most recent press conference regarding the Nissan and the height range of the perp done by experts.

 

[Dushi]

this is kind of my point. no-one would know what missy saw, unless LE has something, or an absence of something, on video.

BB claimed to know what missy did or did not see. Therefore in my opinion he either has that knowledge through some strange mechanism not accounted for, or LE shared with him some video or information about video, that they have not shared with us.

Yes this

 

[lstiff]

Don't assume it was cops. It could have been but this was also a murder in which the victim was attacked in her face - indicating personal relationship & personal anger.

whether that be a social friend, colleague, relative or whoever.

IMO if the perp was a cop they wouldn't dress in swat gear to bring suspicion on LE members.
Of course it is possible civilian killer/s could have been advised by a dirty cop in cahoots with them eg part of a gun cartel business.

It takes a group of people to run a gun cartel.

I have thought since day 1 that if SP is LE, it was not the worst idea ever b/c most of the headlines and conversations started with "a man dressed in police/swat gear" so most people assumed it was a regular person dressing up. Could be or not be but I'm not ruling it out just yet. FTR I am pro LE and come from a LE family, I am also aware that there are some bad ones there too!

IMO though

 

[erinp]

There has been a lot of to and fro on these threads about whether this was obviously a break-and-enter-for-the-purpose-of-theft-gone-wrong vs. this was obviously a break-in-and-murder-missy-and-GTFO.

The one thing that keeps me coming back to the conclusion that the purpose of this exercise was murder is this:

if someone was to break into a place with the intent to commit robbery, surely you want to be able to get around quickly and easily. you want to be able to maneuver in and out of a window, you want to not overheat, you want to be able to hear noises so you don't get caught, you want to not be weighed down by heavy clothing. sure, you'd want to be disguised in case of cameras or being spotted.

but all black clothes and a black balaclava would do that. plus sneakers to get away fast.

why would you need a big fat heavy old helmet and thick padded vest and padded pants and boots? they'd just weigh you down. why would you need POLICE on your vest?

it is for this reason i believe the person was expecting a confrontation with another person. no other explanation makes sense to me.

 

[moonchild7]

I agree KaaBoom about a gun store burglary being completely different from a church burglary.

My point in posting that link was to see if anyone had an impression about the way the suspect was running with his feet turned out. He enters the store at the :27 mark. Check it out and let me know what you think. Again, this burglary happened 11 days before the Midlothian incident and just a little north of that location. I thought it was interesting.

 

[Justice2016]

I have thought since day 1 that if SP is LE, it was not the worst idea ever b/c most of the headlines and conversations started with "a man dressed in police/swat gear" so most people assumed it was a regular person dressing up. Could be or not be but I'm not ruling it out just yet. FTR I am pro LE and come from a LE family, I am also aware that there are some bad ones there too!

IMO though

Both are possible yes. I'm pro LE too but aware there are some rogue cops. No doubt the arrests of local LE around the same time for gun theft/sales has put LE under the spotlight.

Has anyone answered this question definitively?: why are the ATF, FBI, Texas rangers & MPD all working on the same case? Especially ATF. Would ATF usually be called in if someone was killed with a firearm? Are they sometimes called in if no firearm is used in a murder?

That's a high degree of collaboration I wouldn't think was normal - we hear so much about territoriality issues with any LE organisation. As someone from an LE family you'd know the answer better than me.

 

[ocgrad]

i do not remember the police telling us that Missy did not see anyone in the carpark when she arrived. do you have a link suggesting otherwise?

Maybe he just mis-spoke. Here is the quote from MPD that same day, "There’s one surveillance camera where you can see the car in the far corner of the frame, parked in the distance." It stuck with me he said "the" car. At this time they knew how s/he arrived, just didn't know model. There was another interview close to the same time where BB says his wife would not go in if she had seen another car there. Of course he could not have known that either. Just like, "my wife was not targeted". Add to that the lack of emotion, he had not had time to process it, even though he had just been in a car for 8-9 hrs driving home. It's no wonder he has been ripped by social media.

 

[Justice2016]

There has been a lot of to and fro on these threads about whether this was obviously a break-and-enter-for-the-purpose-of-theft-gone-wrong vs. this was obviously a break-in-and-murder-missy-and-GTFO.

The one thing that keeps me coming back to the conclusion that the purpose of this exercise was murder is this:

if someone was to break into a place with the intent to commit robbery, surely you want to be able to get around quickly and easily. you want to be able to maneuver in and out of a window, you want to not overheat, you want to be able to hear noises so you don't get caught, you want to not be weighed down by heavy clothing. sure, you'd want to be disguised in case of cameras or being spotted.

but all black clothes and a black balaclava would do that. plus sneakers to get away fast.

why would you need a big fat heavy old helmet and thick padded vest and padded pants and boots? they'd just weigh you down. why would you need POLICE on your vest?

it is for this reason i believe the person was expecting a confrontation with another person. no other explanation makes sense to me.

Excellent points.

 

[Justice2016]

I agree KaaBoom about a gun store burglary being completely different from a church burglary.

My point in posting that link was to see if anyone had an impression about the way the suspect was running with his feet turned out. He enters the store at the :27 mark. Check it out and let me know what you think. Again, this burglary happened 11 days before the Midlothian incident and just a little north of that location. I thought it was interesting.

Moonchild I was so busy staring at the swat type clothing that I didn't look at the feet. Will check again. You mean the guy in khaki at :27?

 

[erinp]

Maybe he just mis-spoke. Here is the quote from MPD that same day, "There’s one surveillance camera where you can see the car in the far corner of the frame, parked in the distance." It stuck with me he said "the" car. At this time they knew how s/he arrived, just didn't know model. There was another interview close to the same time where BB says his wife would not go in if she had seen another car there. Of course he could not have known that either. Just like, "my wife was not targeted". Add to that the lack of emotion, he had not had time to process it, even though he had just been in a car for 8-9 hrs driving home. It's no wonder he has been ripped by social media.

I completely agree with you about not having time to process it. The interview I'm referring to was the day after he arrived back, not the same day he drove 8-9 hours, but it's neither here nor there, he would be exhausted either way. I would never seek to judge or condemn based on emotion, far too many people have been cast as guilty when they just don't react the way we all think they "ought" to react. it just seemed quite a carefully considered comment that he made, one which i thought odd and in contrast to what LE was saying to the public. it doesn't lead me to believe he was involved in any way, it leads me to believe LE told him some things we aren't privy too, that's all.

 

[YouWho]

this is kind of my point. no-one would know what missy saw, unless LE has something, or an absence of something, on video.

BB claimed to know what missy did or did not see. Therefore in my opinion he either has that knowledge through some strange mechanism not accounted for, or LE shared with him some video or information about video, that they have not shared with us.

And yet BB also stated (paraphrasing) that he's "seen the same video that you all (speaking to reporters) have seen". He has made many curious statements but there always seems to be a reasonable explanation for them. Because he's off-limits for the most part, and because I cant help but agree with some of his supporters, my #1 theory is on ice. #2 is a catfish killer, but that's really only in place to keep me sleuthing.

 

[ZVEDZA]

Greetings and welcome. In your experience, how long on average would a burglar spend inside a building with the intention to burglarize it? Also, what do you think the burglar was looking for in the Creekside Church? Just curious, thanks.

-Nin

Legal disclaimer: The following is just my opinion and for entertainment purposes:
In the cases where schools and churches have been targeted, perps will sometimes spend hours in the building roaming around looking for something of value. They are careful (sometimes) not to steal something 'specialized' and serialized. These types of items are easily tracked when they pawn them off. In the case of a church, some of the A/V equipment wouldn't be targeted by a burglar because it's too easily tracked. Additionally, perps may not find anything of value worth stealing or they took something that isn't really missed, like spare change in a desk, a computer that hasn't been used in a while, etc.
In almost all of these cases the perp has been a male. In rare cases there have been occurrences where the perp was 'disturbed' by a third party and the 'flight' or 'fight' mentality kicks in. All I can say is that an interaction between the perp and MB led to murder. The rest would be speculation.

 

[YouWho]

There has been a lot of to and fro on these threads about whether this was obviously a break-and-enter-for-the-purpose-of-theft-gone-wrong vs. this was obviously a break-in-and-murder-missy-and-GTFO.

The one thing that keeps me coming back to the conclusion that the purpose of this exercise was murder is this:

if someone was to break into a place with the intent to commit robbery, surely you want to be able to get around quickly and easily. you want to be able to maneuver in and out of a window, you want to not overheat, you want to be able to hear noises so you don't get caught, you want to not be weighed down by heavy clothing. sure, you'd want to be disguised in case of cameras or being spotted.

but all black clothes and a black balaclava would do that. plus sneakers to get away fast.

why would you need a big fat heavy old helmet and thick padded vest and padded pants and boots? they'd just weigh you down. why would you need POLICE on your vest?

Indeed. And shoes that are so big you would trip in an attempt to run away.

it is for this reason i believe the person was expecting a confrontation with another person. no other explanation makes sense to me.

Question: if it turns out MB was indeed shot, doesn't that pretty much guarantee it was a targeted act of murder and not a burglary gone wrong? It does for me ( although I've not thought otherwise since the beginning).

 

[erinp]

And yet BB also stated (paraphrasing) that he's "seen the same video that you all (speaking to reporters) have seen".

perhaps both things are true. Perhaps he had only seen the same video the media had seen. And perhaps LE had TOLD him "look mate (okay maybe they wouldn't have said mate, maybe that only happens here in australia), from what we have seen of the outside cameras, there was no-one else parked in the carpark when your wife arrived".

I do think there is much more video than LE is telling us about. I think there at least has to be footage of the perp leaving. And I also believe some, if not all, of the altercation was caught on camera. I think the broken glass around missy was the hall table we see in the video. but that's all just my own opinion.

 

[zoeneli]

Both are possible yes. I'm pro LE too but aware there are some rogue cops. No doubt the arrests of local LE around the same time for gun theft/sales has put LE under the spotlight.

Has anyone answered this question definitively?: why are the ATF, FBI, Texas rangers & MPD all working on the same case? Especially ATF. Would ATF usually be called in if someone was killed with a firearm? Are they sometimes called in if no firearm is used in a murder?

That's a high degree of collaboration I wouldn't think was normal - we hear so much about territoriality issues with any LE organisation. As someone from an LE family you'd know the answer better than me.

I am guessing there isn't a common response from someone who is LE as to how you would respond to this as everyone has different experiences, but as 1 more piece of input, my friend who is LE said they would never in a million years use a hammer - even if there were personal feelings involved. They said due to risk with close "combat" and knowing too much about how investigations work they would want quick in and out and a bit of distance. No up close and personal. They said the same of the theory of shooting her and then using the hammer. That is personal and their job allows them to be trained to leave emotion out of "the job" to accomplish the task at hand.

 

[Justice2016]

My point in posting that link was to see if anyone had an impression about the way the suspect was running with his feet turned out. He enters the store at the :27 mark. Check it out and let me know what you think. Again, this burglary happened 11 days before the Midlothian incident and just a little north of that location. I thought it was interesting.

I played it 4 times until I saw what you meant. The left foot was turned out just before he disappears from view.

Which reminds me: I saw somewhere today that LE said the perp's gait could be due to an injury. Could be that the perp had been shot in the foot sometime before? Possibly in another burglary of this type while trying to get away?

Link for everyone - :27/28 is the moment the splayed foot is shown.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/more-than-50-weapons-stolen-in-arlington-gun-store-burglary/124886520

 

[erinp]

Question: if it turns out MB was indeed shot, doesn't that pretty much guarantee it was a targeted act of murder and not a burglary gone wrong? It does for me ( although I've not thought otherwise since the beginning).

it's hard for me to have a firm opinion on that as i am in australia where nearly nobody has a gun, so if you get shot with one you're very unlucky.

but i would have thought in the US, and particularly in Texas where as I understand it every second person can and probably does carry a gun, all sorts of situations could occur where an accidental shooting could occur. Perhaps perp brought gun just in case he encountered trouble? perhaps he got a fright when he saw Missy and accidentally shot her in a scuffle? perhaps she pulled her gun out and tried to defend herself and he grabbed it off her and shot her instead? all of those things could occur with burglary/robbery being the prime motive and Missy being unfortunate collateral.

i don't think any of those occurred though. i think he broke in expecting a confrontation and got one.

 

[zoeneli]

I played it 4 times until I saw what you meant. The left foot was turned out just before he disappears from view.

Which reminds me: I saw somewhere today that LE said the perp's gait could be due to an injury. Could be that the perp had been shot in the foot sometime before? Possibly in another burglary of this type while trying to get away?

Link for everyone - :27/28 is the moment the splayed foot is shown.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/more-than-50-weapons-stolen-in-arlington-gun-store-burglary/124886520

This video you linked actually shows me how different these two crimes are and highlight why I personally don't think MB was a robbery gone wrong. The video of what we know was a robbery, actually shows me what a robber would likely wear and how they would act. They are covered head to toe to avoid identification, BUT they are wearing clothing that is easy to move in. They are in what looks to be sweats and hoodies of some sort. They are also moving quickly. They are there for a reason. They come in to the building, running, and immediately get to work taking what they came for.

 

[moonchild7]

Moonchild I was so busy staring at the swat type clothing that I didn't look at the feet. Will check again. You mean the guy in khaki at :27?

Yes, it's the guy (kind of short IMO) who runs into the store at the :27 mark. If I were to picture SP running, he would look something like this guy.

Again, the link is http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/more-than-50-weapons-stolen-in-arlington-gun-store-burglary/124886520