Scout
Well-Known Member
The Dutch door room could be the library. There are bookshelves that look like library shelves on the left hand side of the pic of the room that has separated windows.
Aren't the video snips of the killer out of order? I'm really confused about the order. I had initially considered the clip of the killer coming out of a door and using the right arm to touch the wall as trying to adjust to that costume. Maybe trying to regain equilibrium/walk with limited peripheral vision and steady his/herself after getting into that head gear, whatever that was. Now, I'm not sure that works.
What's the prevailing supposition of his/her rambling through the halls?
My brain works a little differently then most, I'm afraid. The round face confuses me with the squareness of the journey SP took. But I think I follow you.It's 100% possible that those 4 video snips in that 2:27 LE video were the earliest views of the perp in the building, and in sequence. Or, they could have been randomly selected, and in a random order.
But if the former, then here's how they would line up. I'll use a reference of a clockface (hour hand) for directions, with the N side being at the top (with the kitchen at about 12, then).
1 - in the N side hall, perp goes from 12:15 to about 1 and then back to about 11
2 - having rounded the NW corner unrecorded, perp is now in the W side hall and goes from about 9 down to about 6 as he turns the SW corner
3 - now in the S side hall, he then goes down the hall to about 4:30 (and maybe farther unrecorded) and then turns around and comes back to 5:45 where he enters the auditorium
4 - out of sight, he traverses the auditorium from 5:45 to about 3, then we see him exiting into the E side hall at 3 and dallying there a bit before the camera cuts off
In total, he's almost made a full lap.
Hope that helps.:smile:
We don't know that the doors were still open when MB arrived.
Wait. Why am I seeing stone at the bottom of one photo and sheet rock where SP is? Are we sure thats the same entrance? Also,
wouldn't the door to the left of the double doors in the SP pic be close to the double doors where the reporter is?
Those look like 2 different areas to me.
Edited. My ? was answered.
My brain works a little differently then most, I'm afraid. The round face confuses me with the squareness of the journey SP took. But I think I follow you.
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You know, if we had 2 perps *hypothetically*, what better way than have them both entering through the kitchen! Why? Because the kitchen is connected to a function room. Someone had previously posted the pic and I completely missed it. It's on CC FB.
Both enter through the kitchen, one stays behind. If the perp came by a second time and entered that function room - not the kitchen-, we could have had a switchero. Don't know, why a switchero would even be helpful (different heights??), but the killer could have left through the SW doors, and the "other " one could have left 'the same way he came in', through the kitchen. They would have to have communication though. All hypothetical and JMO.
Do I believe we have 2 perps. No. Is it possible? Yes.
-Nin
maybe the reason they cleaned it up so quickly was because it could be viewed from other areas inside and outside the church. They may not have had a choice in the matter-keeping onlookers away might have proved problematic. Photographs and measurements might have been all that was needed to remove the body-especially if there was no gun involved. The rest of the church just needed a quick sweeping up. Fingerprints in a public building would be very difficult to track. Also presumably they have everything but the murder itself and the perps exit on film..jmo
eta: also the murder weapon was left behind-no need to hunt for it or identify what it might have been..
Bat,
Can you measure the width of the hallways please? ;--) Thanks.
-Nin
Two Unsubs would explain the discrepancy from LEO in gender and height. First, it's a male. Then, it may be a female. FIrst, perp is tall. Then, perp is short.
It would also explain LEOs estimated height vs Batbrat's work on the height being of nonmatching heights with LEO. Someone mentioned early on in the investigation of a difference in the patches worn that I've never been able to determine. Anyone? Anyone?
Motive: The SWs give us explicit [numerous] possible motive(s). The interviews and the letters are clues.
Opportunity: The time of day provides many with an alibi of simply being asleep. BB, VB and RB were out of town. Would require a requested hit.
Means: Anyone with a hammer or heavy metal tool does not require physical fitness just the ability to swing hard enough to whack on the head an unsuspecting person who then falls to the ground for the final assault AND possesses the will to kill and possibly kill with a [stolen] gun. :dunno:
Also ~ want to thank the poster (think it was CHUCKJ) from the last thread who mentioned the headgear worn with turned up edges is not a motorcycle helmet as that's not conducive for riding a bike. I stopped riding a few years ago but my helmet edges are flush and not upturned. :facepalm: BB was wrong when he told us he thought it was an ordinary motorcycle helmet. :tantrum:
Thank you verbonica.....Still doesn't work for me. I pretty well see it in my head how SP traveled but if possible (I would do it if I could) I'd like to see the layout of the church in reference with the road outside, some of the key areas marked...much like Arkansasmimi's map (but bigger) but with the entire route taken by the SP marked with arrows. And then explore MB'S possible routes with a different colored pen. And for those who think there were 2 perp's, those routes could be incorporated somehow too. And...add a getaway car route and/or an on foot getaway.Maybe you can try envisioning it with a square clock face:
View attachment 97370
(Edit: trying to make it larger...)
no go -- oh well, you get the idea
Originally Posted by Razz
Ok. Thanks Arkansasmimi. I use my phone for everything and maybe that's why I am seeing the inner vestibule door opening out onto the main hallway instead of going in toward the covered awning.
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LOL Bottom line, no matter if going in or out, door comes toward the individual (think gotta pull door open whether leaving or entering)
I'm right there withSW part of building is where Missy was found. That is exactly the area where perp was on camera by the bulletin board, attempting to get into room to left of bulletin board with prybar and hammer briefly, sees camera, walks across view of camera without looking at it again. A statement was made that after that, everything went black. I believe that perp disabled camera at that point which is why it was not caught on camera. Perp somehow knew Missy's routine and knew that she had to enter main set of doors with key to come down hallway and open the doors where her truck was parked. This routine was the same whether rain or shine to open bathrooms for campers. If you look at the tape, there is a dark hallway to the right of the bulletin board. If Missy came in the main entrance, she passed that hallway on her way to open the doors near where her truck was parked. Perp had an easy way to get to her once she walked past that hallway. Perp would not have been able to hide within the area of the doors near her truck as it was all glass. I believe perp struck her with the initial weapon right near the bulletin board and finished the job in that general vicinity. Campers would be able to see through those doors and a body laying down may look like a 'rolled up rug' through 2 sets of glass doors. The fact that campers could see her and camera did not says that perp disabled it. We saw 2 views from cameras in that area. In my opinion, perp disabled the one looking at the bulletin board. That being said, I think perp disabled most cameras if not all prior to leaving the property. The item that we keep discussing from part of the video appears to be a video camera in my opinion. And the force that was necessary to remove the lock on the kitchen door was insane. Not a woman. They may have disabled the cameras but they may not have realized that all prior footage was captured in my opinion. I also believe perp came very early before the murder and busted windows & doors quickly and left to see if cops responded. When coast was clear after a while, they knew they had time until Missy arrived which accounts for the casual nature of the perp walking around slowly etc. Perp knew exactly what time MB would be there, perp knew where she would enter and which direction she would be headed, perp knew she may be carrying a weapon, perp knew she may recognize them and/or that there were cameras. Definitely not random, not a burglary, not a spree or serial killer. Narrows it down quite a bit.
I'm right there with
you!
Here is a plan of the church hallways. I have placed the hallway seen in the very end of the video to the East side of the building. IMO that's the only side that fits the lack of windows/ doors across the sanctuary, where you see the perp exiting door number 12. Corrections and additions welcome, as always.
like your post (Hey You post) Wonder if LE noted where Windows and doors busted if there was standing water in those areas from the rain. If there was quite a bit it might prove your theory that they busted doors and windows and then left to see if alarms went off.
In the bottom left picture (the one with SP on the west side of the building), are we looking north or south? I think that this picture is taken from one of the cameras in the SW corner, correct? In the picture on the bottom row (second from the right), are those the SW doors near the awning? Thank you.