TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #33

[CHUCKJ]

Ok, so are you in the camp of thinking no firearm was used? I originally thought it could be an additionally used weapon. The more I learn, the less I think so, but I'm not ruling it out due to other variables not answered by anything else. (ATF dog, SW firearm reference, among other things).

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Just my opinion, but deffinently no gun.

As for the ATF. You have to put yourself in LE's shoes for a moment. With the state of the world being what it is today, ie. terrorist attacks at home and abroad being carried out on a regular basis, a suspect in swat gear, carrying an unidentified object that could easily be a bomb, in a church where a lot of people congrigate, and not knowing if MB was an intended target or just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am perplexed that so many would read so much into the FBI, ATF, etc. being brought in. Keep in mind that at this point in the investigation, they are still gathering information and have not even had time to formulate a motive. In the bigger picture, terrorist acts are on the minds of LE daily. It is being taught to them, how to recognize, or look out for the signs, its in the news. Its unfortunate, but this is the reality we live in today. It is becoming routine to cover your basis. I think this is all they were doing. I think to read anything other than that into it is a great leap. If anyones next question is why did LE not mention that, then I'll save you the time. They would not want to panic the public for no reason.

 

[privateaye]

Just my opinion, but deffinently no gun.

As for the ATF. You have to put yourself in LE's shoes for a moment. With the state of the world being what it is today, ie. terrorist attacks at home and abroad being carried out on a regular basis, a suspect in swat gear, carrying an unidentified object that could easily be a bomb, in a church where a lot of people congrigate, and not knowing if MB was an intended target or just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am perplexed that so many would read so much into the FBI, ATF, etc. being brought in. Keep in mind that at this point in the investigation, they are still gathering information and have not even had time to formulate a motive. In the bigger picture, terrorist acts are on the minds of LE daily. It is being taught to them, how to recognize, or look out for the signs, its in the news. Its unfortunate, but this is the reality we live in today. It is becoming routine to cover your basis. I think this is all they were doing. I think to read anything other than that into it is a great leap. If anyones next question is why did LE not mention that, then I'll save you the time. They would not want to panic the public for no reason.

That's a plausible explanation. Not to be an *advertiser censored*, but what do you make of the SW reference?

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[CHUCKJ]

That's a plausible explanation. Not to be an *advertiser censored*, but what do you make of the SW reference?

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routine expantion of scope as not to miss anyting.

 

[privateaye]

routine expantion of scope as not to miss anyting.

Again, possible. I'm just not willing to close out that possibility as I also think the use of a firearm is plausible, based on what we know. Like, in a flow diagram you could have 2 potential paths, neither of which can be ruled out YET. (From what info they've released to us.)

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[zoeneli]

That's a plausible explanation. Not to be an *advertiser censored*, but what do you make of the SW reference?

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Just my input on the gun. I won't rule it out, but don't believe one was used. As I posted a page or two back, I am just not sure what LE has to gain from keeping that information from the public. Just like you don't have to give exact details about the puncture wounds, you could just say she was shot and hold back where, what type of gun, etc.

My personal interpretation of the SW mentioning a serial # to a firearm is that perhaps MB carried a gun in her vehicle that was found and cataloged during the search. I think the primary reason to mention it was to add to their case of why the wanted the records sealed.

If it turns out a gun was used, I see it much more secondary. I still see the rage of hitting her in the head and chest with a hammer as the primary goal of SP. "Possible" that they had a gun to use in case something didn't go according to plan or to make sure she didn't survive the attack with the hammer.

 

[CHUCKJ]

Again, possible. I'm just not willing to close out that possibility as I also think the use of a firearm is plausible, based on what we know. Like, in a flow diagram you could have 2 potential paths, neither of which can be ruled out YET. (From what info they've released to us.)

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I respect your opinion, but as they mentioned puncture wounds in a SW, it is also plausible that she was killed with a spork, and as we did not see one in perps hand, nor was one found at the scene that i'm aware of, then it is plausable it was in the perps pocket, same as the gun, but no likley.

 

[privateaye]

I respect your opinion, but as they mentioned puncture wounds in a SW, it is also plausible that she was killed with a spork, and as we did not see one in perps hand, nor was one found at the scene that i'm aware of, then it is plausable it was in the perps pocket, same as the gun, but no likley.

Lol, a spork.

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[GA_Peach]

Just my opinion, but deffinently no gun.

As for the ATF. You have to put yourself in LE's shoes for a moment. With the state of the world being what it is today, ie. terrorist attacks at home and abroad being carried out on a regular basis, a suspect in swat gear, carrying an unidentified object that could easily be a bomb, in a church where a lot of people congrigate, and not knowing if MB was an intended target or just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am perplexed that so many would read so much into the FBI, ATF, etc. being brought in. Keep in mind that at this point in the investigation, they are still gathering information and have not even had time to formulate a motive. In the bigger picture, terrorist acts are on the minds of LE daily. It is being taught to them, how to recognize, or look out for the signs, its in the news. Its unfortunate, but this is the reality we live in today. It is becoming routine to cover your basis. I think this is all they were doing. I think to read anything other than that into it is a great leap. If anyones next question is why did LE not mention that, then I'll save you the time. They would not want to panic the public for no reason.

If the dog was brought in to search for a bomb, why was that not done on Monday? It would seem that the ATF would want a neutralize a potential bomb threat ASAP.

Titan was not brought in until Wednesday, the day after the autospy. I think that the autospy revealed something, likely a gun shot wound, that was not readily apparent from observing the body. IMO that's why Titan wasn't brought in for two days.

 

[privateaye]

If the dog was brought in to search for a bomb, why was that not done on Monday? It would seem that tge ATF would want a neutralize a potential bomb threat ASAP.

However, Titan was not brought in until Wednesday, the day after the autospy. I think that the autospy revealed something, likely a gun shot wound, that was not readily apparent from observing the body. IMO that's why Titan wasn't brought in for two days.

Hmmmm, the plot thickens. Great point!

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[CHUCKJ]

I respect your opinion, but as they mentioned puncture wounds in a SW, it is also plausible that she was killed with a spork, and as we did not see one in perps hand, nor was one found at the scene that i'm aware of, then it is plausable it was in the perps pocket, same as the gun, but no likley.

Please forgive the sarcasm.

 

[Scout]

1ST LE would have no motivation to misrepresent anything in a search warrant. The phrase "puncture wounds" in no way indicates the use of a fire arm.
2nd The use of a firearm is derived from pure speculation, and requires that we believe LE is hiding or choosing to mislead the public, and again, I site the lack of motivation.
3rd There was no firearm visible on the suspect nor has there been any official mention of a firearm being used.
4th If the suspect had a gun, why would he/she bludgeon MB to death? Wouldn't it have made more sense just to shoot her.
5th There were multiple puncture wounds. This leads me to believe the suspect had no problem doing the deed. Are we to believe he/she got squeamish half way through the job and pulled out the gun.
6th Why would the suspect draw un necessary attention to the scene?
I could go on?

First, I'll state that I'm not convinced Missy was shot, but it is a real possibility.

I don't believe they are misrepresenting anything in the search warrants. I agree that the terminology "puncture wounds" in no way indicates use of a firearm. No police officer would call a gunshot wound a puncture wound. Those who think so might be confusing the term with "penetrating" or "perforating" which are terms used to describe a gunshot wound -- the former to describe those with only an entrance wound and the latter to describe a wound with both entrance and exit.

The fact is that police have never stated nor confirmed that those puncture wounds were the cause of death nor that they were the only wounds on Missy's body. The absence of an explicit statement does not necessarily mean that there was no gunshot wound.

You are correct that there was no firearm visible on the suspect. Therefore what point would there have been to disclose a gunshot wound at that point if it cannot link Missy's murder to the suspect? The purpose of disclosing her puncture wounds was to link them to the tools he/she was seen carrying.

The use of a firearm is speculation, but it is not baseless speculation. The inclusion of a firearm serial number in investigative documents and the use of an ATF K9, trained to detect ammunition components and explosives, to search the crime scene inside and out (including along the highway) are the basis for that speculation. It would seem one logical conclusion is that police had reason to believe a firearm was used at the scene of the crime.

I don't know why the killer would shoot Missy in addition to attacking her with a weapon or weapons that caused puncture wounds. Not knowing why doesn't negate the possibility that he did.

 

[CHUCKJ]

If the dog was brought in to search for a bomb, why was that not done on Monday? It would seem that the ATF would want a neutralize a potential bomb threat ASAP.

However, Titan was not brought in until Wednesday, the day after the autospy. I think that the autospy revealed something, likely a gun shot wound, that was not readily apparent from observing the body. IMO that's why Titan wasn't brought in for two days.

I don't know why, but I can't by any stretch of my own personal imagination, get from the dog being brought in, to a gun being used. IMO it is a myth, and an injection from the rumor mill because we are as a society, programmed to want instant satisfaction, and sinse we can't get anymore information here, or elswere regarding this case, it has become an organic murder mystery novel of sorts. I bet you could not write as good a story as this would tell regardless of what the truth turns out to be, as would materialize with a good editor, just taking commentary from this site and injecting a few naratives.

 

[Scout]

They used the words "puncture wounds" because thats what they were. I don't think it was LE being cryptic?

I don't either. Puncture wounds are a specific type of wound. The term would not be used to describe a gunshot wound nor a stab wound with a sharp-edged instrument.

 

[privateaye]

First, I'll state that I'm not convinced Missy was shot, but it is a real possibility.

I don't believe they are misrepresenting anything in the search warrants. I agree that the terminology "puncture wounds" in no way indicates use of a firearm. No police officer would call a gunshot wound a puncture wound. Those who think so might be confusing the term with "penetrating" or "perforating" which are terms used to describe a gunshot wound -- the former to describe those with only an entrance wound and the latter to describe a wound with both entrance and exit.

The fact is that police have never stated nor confirmed that those puncture wounds were the cause of death nor that they were the only wounds on Missy's body. The absence of an explicit statement does not necessarily mean that there was no gunshot wound.

You are correct that there was no firearm visible on the suspect. Therefore what point would there have been to disclose a gunshot wound at that point if it cannot link Missy's murder to the suspect? The purpose of disclosing her puncture wounds was to link them to the tools he/she was seen carrying.

The use of a firearm is speculation, but it is not baseless speculation. The inclusion of a firearm serial number in investigative documents and the use of an ATF K9, trained to detect ammunition components and explosives, to search the crime scene inside and out (including along the highway) are the basis for that speculation. It would seem one logical conclusion is that police had reason to believe a firearm was used at the scene of the crime.

I don't know why the killer would shoot Missy in addition to attacking her with a weapon or weapons that caused puncture wounds. Not knowing why doesn't negate the possibility that he did.

Perfectly stated.

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[x_files]

I just thought of something....I'm back to being suspicious of CT. And maybe BB is being coached by LE what to say to drag her out, hence the "in the know" vibe.

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Is it possible CT had an affair with BB? Instead of the other way around?

 

[Scout]

Just my input on the gun. I won't rule it out, but don't believe one was used. As I posted a page or two back, I am just not sure what LE has to gain from keeping that information from the public. Just like you don't have to give exact details about the puncture wounds, you could just say she was shot and hold back where, what type of gun, etc.

My personal interpretation of the SW mentioning a serial # to a firearm is that perhaps MB carried a gun in her vehicle that was found and cataloged during the search. I think the primary reason to mention it was to add to their case of why the wanted the records sealed.

If it turns out a gun was used, I see it much more secondary. I still see the rage of hitting her in the head and chest with a hammer as the primary goal of SP. "Possible" that they had a gun to use in case something didn't go according to plan or to make sure she didn't survive the attack with the hammer.

If the firearm was found and catalogued, why would they be concerned about its serial number being used fraudulently?

 

[Seriously?]

If the dog was brought in to search for a bomb, why was that not done on Monday? It would seem that the ATF would want a neutralize a potential bomb threat ASAP.

Titan was not brought in until Wednesday, the day after the autospy. I think that the autospy revealed something, likely a gun shot wound, that was not readily apparent from observing the body. IMO that's why Titan wasn't brought in for two days.

Yes. And you probably remember this possibility was discussed a while back!!!!!!!

Does anyone know if church staff/employees were allowed in the building before Titan visited? I guess that would give us some supportive information - one way or the other. If there were concerns for safety in that building, I can't see leaving it open to anyone. We talked about Titan's availability as part of the delay; however, wouldn't you think if there was a concern for explosives the building, it would have been cleared earlier? Just my opinion -

 

[privateaye]

Look at these beauties. https://www.atf.gov/about/canine-gallery

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[zoeneli]

If the firearm was found and catalogued, why would they be concerned about its serial number being used fraudulently?

I don't think they were. I think that was to strengthen the request to have the record sealed. Even if she was shot, they found a bullet, matched to a serial number of a gun, why say you are worried about it being used fraudulently? I am definitely no expert on fraudulent use of serial numbers though, so if there is a valid reason in the second scenario, I am open to change my opinion.

FYI - I got that impression on much of the search warrant wording - that is was added or stated in a specific way to get what they needed (request for tower records, request to seal, etc).

 

[x_files]

Since he said a friend rented the car and the charter was paid for by someone else it's possible there wouldn't be anything to verify other than his flight, and the recollections of clerks and service personnel. Perhaps they also got pings from his phone on towers there.

I hope they'd want CCTV cameras from the airport to verify his alibi.